Bruce Weber on the Hot Seat - Possible Coaching Replacements
 

Podcast: Saturday Sportsline 2-11-12

Illinois Athletic Director Mike Thomas will be on WDWS Saturday Sportsline with Jim Turpin and Lorne Tate on Saturday, Feb. 10. Loren Tate indicated that Thomas will be answering caller questions. Loren Tate Indicated that Thomas will appear weekly on WDWS Saturday Sportsline (schedule permitting) going forward.

Station: WDWS-AM 1400
Program: Saturday Morning Sportsline
Time: 9-11 A.M. (CST)
Call in #: 800-223-9397 -or- 217-356-9397

* Edit. Sat, Feb. 11

What do you all expect Mr Thomas to say.....

I know more of the same, let's evaluate the program and decide after the season.

I for one think Coach Weber brings a interesting level on this decision for the AD on many fronts to be factored in. We all have nailed the obvious ones such as salary and buy outs.

There is no way in Hell that Mike Thomas will come in and fire both the Head Coach of Football and the Head Coach of basketball in 6 months.

Weber has a connection that Zook has never seen in regards to the over all view of things.

16-8 is exactly where we were last year at this time, and the Seniors finally decided to play and got us to a Sweet 16.

I think this team is young we all knew it coming into this season. Coach Weber is playing chess and he is a master at it.

Keep the faith

Uhhhh, what?

Oh, you didn't hear? This happened last night.

We got to the Third Round. Just too bad they added that "new" round 1 at the beginning so the Third Round was no longer the S16.

We made the Sweet 16 last year??!! Sweet!!!!! That was my goal for the team!!!!!

ok I stand corrected we played Kansas for a chance in the dance, they still got it together to make a run at the end of the year and I expect nothing less for this young team.

They went 3-5 in their last 8 games and lost 2 of their last 3, squeaking in as a bubble team. How is that pulling it together at the end? The UNLV game was a good effort, sure, but I think your memory's a little fuzzy on everything else.

Carpet lies like a rug.

I agree. We didn't make a "run" last year. We lost our first game in the B10 tourney in miserable fashion to Michigan, then won one game in the tournament. Granted, the NCAA tourney win was a really good one, but one win doesn't constitute a "run."

Is this tongue-in-cheek or just one of the most meaningless posts in the history of IL? I'm not sure if it's hilarious or absurd . . . :laugh:

Anyone listening?

10 to 10 and he just arrived.

UP.


MT on radio.

very interesting just talked about men's bball recruiting. mentioned beckman trying to start locking down the state, lou do on BTN icons, bardo, and locking down the state.

never said weber's name.

It's that emphasis Thomas has on locking down his state that may make the NU game unforgivable in his eyes.

Pretty clear in reading between the lines. Thomas said (paraphrasing), it's not about getting to the NCAA tournament, it's where we're seeded. Talked about "being relevant" both in conference and nationally. So IMO even if we get in as a bubble team, Weber's in danger of losing his job.

MT gets it. We'll see another example of this in April.

MT going to be on next Saturday too. He could have used that show as a platform for a vote of confidence for BW and at no time did I hear that vote. If you read between the lines, there were actually responses that implied the BB program as a whole body of work is not where he wants it to be.

As well he should be.

Refreshing to have accountability back in the Athletics Department.

I remember he had the same chance w/ Zook and we know how that ended.

I agree that the message was pretty clear.

That's what I was told he said to BW in a meeting last summer. BW shared details of that meeting with his staff, and it sent a tremor through the staff that they're on a short leash.

That was my interpretation also. Get it done in March, and conduct interviews at the final four. Get the right man, and just maybe it wouldn't be too late to renew interest among some select '13 recruits.

Thomas would make a good politician, didn't really give anything new on Mens Basketball, he knew what the questions would probably be and had pretty standard answers that he has given before.
One thing he did mention was that there are no current plans to add any sports at this time.
I think its great for Thomas to be on there if he can discuss Illini sports in general, but if it turns into another fire this coach or that coach, then it'll become just like the message boards. fans should know by now that Thomas will give the safe answer publicly in regards to a possible coaching change (as he should). I hope that fans would use it to bring up a variety of questions or comments. A good example was the fan who called and nicely complained about the football seats (spaces) being to small and that he feels like he's being squeezed while trying to watch the game. It's ruining his game day experience.

I would happily pay triple what i pay now to have chair backs at football games. Plus, I would love it if the stadium staff would be more strict on the "squatters" in the stadium. your ticket stub isnt hard to deciper. Sit where you are supposed to sit. I am tired of people sitting by their friends even though their seats are in another section. All it does is squeeze everyone tighter. Chairbacks would alleviate this greatly as their would be no squeezing tighter.

What they need to do is take a seat or two (or three or four) out of each row, at least in the horseshoe. I sat there the first time for the Wisconsin game and it was miserable. My family and I are skinny-to-average size and so were most of the others in the row and it was just god awful. The only worse seating experience I can think of is at Northwestern's basketball arena.

Yea, I am in the shoe now and I am thinking about going back to sidelines. However, with my new business acquisition that doesnt allow me to go to every game anymore and then throw in that my family recently grew by one three months ago makes me struggle to believe it would be worth it.

I'm pretty sure it's sarcasm.

I didn't get a chance to listen to this, and honestly I have no clue if RG ever did this when he was our athletic director, but I really like that MT is going on radio shows weekly to try and connect to the fans and assure them that he has high standard for the program just like we do. Great PR move.

These statements are very significant, and honestly, not a great sign for Weber's chances of keeping his job. If being relevant nationally and getting a high seed are important factors, it's not looking good for BW. With remaining schedule we have, it's hard to see us landing any better than a 7-seed in the tournament -- and that's a best case scenario.

It's disappointing that that's where the Illini basketball program is at right now.

RG would come on the show once a year, but I don't ever remember him taking questions from callers like MT did.

Amen. Objectivity. Accountability. Loyalty (to University and program first, team second, coaches third).

Ironically, the short leash might have led Weber to be even more conservative than usual, ultimately reducing his chances of success with this young squad.

BW's inability to understand a situation for what it is is ultimately responsible for his lack of success. His formulaic thinking will deservedly lead to his undoing.

In general, that is all you are going to get. People wanted Guenther to be more media accessible, although I am not sure why. He would just have done what Thomas is doing...non answers. The AD manual says the AD response is supposed to be no response, which is what MT did. We all get it.

Season ticket holders can buy seat backs, so that is an option.

As for squatters, with the stadium at far less than capacity, it is interesting to hear this is an issue. I would think if someone is in your section in the wrong seats, you can notify an usher, they can deal with it and if not, the next level would.

The capacity of the stadium can be further reduced and ticket prices raised to make it a revenue neutral change.

Podcast: Saturday Sportsline 2-11-12

Very hard to say if the writing is on the wall, but .........some data points.........

1) MT did mention how TB is doing things (the right way of getting visibility?), and
2) When asked about if MT will be at the tOSU BB game, he provided a reason why he would not be. MT would be in Chicago, related to FB and visibility.

Tupper article discussing Thomas's appearance today. Same conclusion as many in this thread.

http://www.herald-review.com/blogs/m...9bb2963f4.html

As much as i want a new coach and a new system. I want these kids to succeed so bad.

The stadium may be at far less than capacity, but the horsehoe is generally quite filled.

Loren and I agree fully: "Barring an unexpectedly spectacular finish to the current season, a change is likely in the offing."

And this might be the worst post ever in the history of Illini Basketball, you and Loren in agreement.....

It was Mark Tupper, not Loren Tate. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's right.

It's unfortunate and I hope it doesn't happen because that would mean we turned this season around. I always hoped Weber would succeed here but, this clearly isn't cutting it. If we don't get turned around this season how does MT not do something?

There are plenty of points regarding Weber's failures to be made without short-changing our program. We didn't "squeak in as a bubble team", we were soundly in before the Conference tourneys were complete. In '10 we were a bubble team that didn't make it, in '11 we were a team that easily made it, but could have made it easier on themselves (i.e. higher seed).

While I don't disagree with you, this is Weber's problem, not the AD's or the fans. If he can't play a style of ball that works while still under pressure, then he isn't situated to be the head coach of a top 20 program.

Don't ever accuse Tate of having reasonable, thoughtful, and objective analysis. My gut instinct raised a red flag as soon as you claimed Tate said that.

Loren's fine. Tupper's fine.

I think Tupper's take is right, he's looking at things in the cold light of reality.

We don't have several more years to risk on BW, hoping he'll get things sorted out. I think MT recognizes this.

I'm not arguing this isn't a problem with Weber, just making an observation. He has never dealt very well with the pressure of leading a high profile program.

Excellent point and very difficult for all but a few talented people. I think that is why we move on. He hasn't dealt with it well, as you say. Some say the next guy might not deal with it either but one shouldn't support Weber only because they are afraid of the future.

When Thomas states numerous times that he wants to own Chicago, there are only a few coaches I can see doing that. Coaches such as Anthony Grant, Shaka Smart, and possibly Brad Stevens (based on coaching alone).

However, even though I doubt he gets hired, the one that I truly believe could own Chicago remains Jerrance. Jerrance more than others screams for sure national prominence if all things fall into place and patience is enforced. Others, while having great redeeming qualities don't scream I am going to own Chicago for various reason. Would Grant and Smart stay here, would Stevens have the persona to own Chicago?

Exactly, I think this is what is going on with Weber. He knows he's under the watch of a new AD, and he's coaching very conservatively to avoid mistakes more than ever. Weber should not worry about the future. If he is forced to move on, he will have no problem picking up another head coach assignment with his overall resume. It's unfortunate, but I think the pressure is affecting his coaching of this team.

I agree ,I think if Howard were surrounded by the right assistants in a few years Illinois could be mentioned in the same sentence as the Dukes and Kentucky's of College Basketball:chief:

Howard hasn't owned Chicago as an assistant coach so it is hard to imagine he would own it as a head coach.

Any new head coach would hire an assistant like Howard, with strong ties to Chicago, to recruit the city. Most new coaches would do everything possible to retain Jerrance Howard.

I don't necessarily disagree, but there were early signs this year that he was going to break with some of his past norms. Particularly around the Gonzaga game and for a bit after, I found myself thinking that we might be trying to fix some of the persistent issues of recent years.

I think the Purdue game plus Sam's unfortunate ankle problems may have triggered a return to some of the conservative strategies of the past.

If Jerrance is such an amazing coach why are we playing so poorly this year? Jerrance can recruit, we all know that. But if he really had the X's and O's to win in the Big Ten wouldn't we already be winning in the Big Ten? You can try to argue that he does and Weber just doesn't listen to him but I think that's a pretty weak argument. Koehning was still able to put out one helluva defense even though the head coach was way in over his head.

I like Jerrance a lot, and I hope he stays on the staff as our top assistant coach, but I do not think he is ready to be a head coach at a high major program.

I'm going to ride the Shaka Smart bandwagon 'till the end!

The players love him. They constantly speak of how he relates etc. it is hard to imagine that this wouldn't increase if he were head coach. Selling BW is more difficult than selling Jerrance would be IMO

I remember several people saying the same thing about former Illini lead recruiter Tony Yates in the early 80's. In the days before internet fan forums such as this, people were calling for then assistant Yates to take over the reins of the Illini from Lou. It was thought Yates would lock down Chicago and lead the University to new heights in Basketball.
Instead, he became the head coach at Cincinnati, and proved himself to be anything but a great recruiter/head coach. His record before being let go....70-100.
Just food for thought.

This is spot on. Let me add that there were also a number of players who also wanted Yates to take over. A friend from high school was dating Jay Daniels in the early 80's and gave me fairly regular updates on what was happening behind the scenes. The players loved Yates and generally despised Henson. Good cop, bad cop. On his own Yates was largely a failure at Cincy.

Being loved by players is one thing. Getting them to do what they need to do is something else.

There are many examples of recruiters who become coaches who fail. There are also many examples who succeed. I'm not sure one example is terribly enlightening.

What is means is that you need other evidence of head coaching ability. Just because a guy is a good recruiter and the players like him doesn't mean he will become a good head coach.

There are many examples, and a failure of one doesn't mean another can't succeed. However, this is not the time or the place to give Jerrance an audition. He has nowhere near the experience. He is an asset to our program, and he has done a good job recruiting, but he hasn't been phenomenal either. We still don't get the elite talent out of Chicago, so you can't say he will lock it down. I would love to see Jerrance retained by whomever we hire, should Weber be fired.

Another way to think about it is that Jerrance was interested in both the Bradley and UIC jobs (maybe others) and didn't really receive much consideration for either job. A top young assistant should be hot commodity for a mid-major job. Jerrance isn't there yet.

I agree. No knock on Jerrance. He isn't ready yet. He hasn't even been a lead assistant. He needs more experience. I've always said if he was that hot of a commodity, why didn't UIC take him? It's not because he wouldn't be able to get some talent to go there(not UI talent of course). I think he can be good one day. It's not at UI right now. MT knows this and wouldn't risk a hire like that either.

I think the odds are that Jerrance is not ready to coach a program like Illinois. My question has always been however that outside of recruiting how can an assistant coach really distinguish himself? tT least outwardly it is very difficult to judge any coaching ability. I'm sure the Athletic Director's at a given school may have additional insight but this seems very difficult to gauge.

I guess the only other way to measure would be from the coaches that he has worked for. Weber, Wayne, Gillespie? I guess my point is that nobody on this board knows if Jerrance is the next Yates or Brad Stevens. We all have our opinions but there is very little to go on in the way of X's and O's

Eastern Illinois (OVC) may be a possibility for Howard after this season. The panthers are 11-14 and Mike Miller's k expires at the end of the season and he is not going to be renewed.

Not a great program, but it would be a place to cut his teeth. Formula to winning in those lower level leagues is pretty easy -> out recruit your league opponents (that is his forte right?) and put together a few 20+ win seasons and move on to a better program asap.

My guess is that Howard will be a long time assistant before he is a head coach.

Brad Stevens was the top assistant for a very successful mid-major program. It made a lot of sense to promote from within to maintain continuity for a successful program. Howard is the 2nd or 3rd assistant for a program that is struggling. The case for promoting Howard isn't really comparable to that for Stevens back when he was promoted.

Stevens was just an example picked out of the blue because little was known about him. My contention is that assistants who become head coaches get those jobs more often than not because of recruiting reputations. Weber may rate Jay Price ahead of JH in pecking order but I would lay $$$ Jerrance gets a head spot before Price

FWIW, I was told that MT sent feelers out to Smart's camp to gauge initial interest if the HC position becomes open. Smart didn't say yes I'll definitely take it, but he didn't say no, either. Had some questions about how long it would take him to adapt the current players and initial couple of years to his system and style (how long of a leash he'd receive), supposedly. Again, second-hand info from a friend of a source. Sorry to repeat info if this has been already shared elsewhere.

If Howard doesn't remain with the Illini, I would love to see him take over at EIU. I have a feeling he would become a pain in Murray St's side.

Thanks for sharing as always.

Who else do you feel are legit candidates?

Thanks HOC. It makes perfect sense

He claimed MT sent out a feeler to Romar (which shocked me -- figured the guy is at his alma mater I think and is 55 or 56), and Romar's response was if he ever left UW to go elsewhere that he'd want a long-term contract at more money than he's making right now (I think he said $2.2 mil/year). Romar has to know that he's probably hit his ceiling at UW with a mediocre Pac-12. If he were to make one last coaching move, going to a recruiting hotbed like UI in the best conference in the country would make some sense.

There's conjecture about whether Buzz Williams would be a good hire, too. He also makes $2.2 or so mil, I'm told, but those in CBB supposedly rave about what he's done in the Big East at a small private school in Milwaukee that doesn't have a campus arena and doesn't have a big recruiting budget or fan base. People on campus think he won't stay at Marquette for the duration (a la Crean).

Buzz Williams would be a very good hire, but i wonder if eventually he ends up down south given his Texas roots. Even at MU, most of his recruits have come from the south. Vander Blue, the Madison PG, is the only high profile midwest recruit he has landed.

Romar has spent most of his life on the west coach. He has turned down a lot of opportunities to leave UW. I just don't see him at Illinois.

Agreed on Romar. Was surprised to hear about a feeler to him. He's a great recruiter and offensive mind, but I don't like how his teams play D, to be honest. They seem to try to win too much with O, imo. They have done well considering UW is not in a great region of the country for recruiting. Getting JP to come here would be nice, though that's far from a guarantee imo.

Smart and Romar were the only names I was given that had supposedly received feelers. Williams was just speculation on the source's part. Smart was supposedly the first one whose handlers he contacted, fwiw. Maybe he sees him as a BB version of Beckman.

I can't figure out what everyone sees in Romar. Either I have watched poor examples of his overall work as a coach or I'm just missing something. I'm not that impressed with Romar. I think he would get eaten up in the Big Ten.

I like Buzz's offensive system.. have not seen a lot of MU games but they run and push the ball a lot!!! Cant rule out anyone really- who would have though Purnell would leave Clemson for horrific Depaul and the bigeast. ?

I think Smart is a BB version of Kevin Sumlin.

I love Buzz William's system as well.

I watch a lot of Marquette games as a bunch of my friends went to Marquette and I have always kind of followed them as my second team I guess. But they are skilled, hard nosed, and tough as nails. They have a ton of interchangeable players. He let's them play free and open and they make plays. They are all just mentally and physically tough.

They had a rough stretch right around the time when we won at NW, they blew like a 17 point lead to Georgetown and blew another game. They were getting crushed by Syracuse but made a huge comeback to make it a game on New Years day iirc.

Off topic, but Marquette alums sure know how to party and enjoy themselves!

I think one thing we can all be confident in is that Thomas won't make a change unless he feels he can get someone better with pretty good certainty. Too many times I've seen a team attempt to make a change only to whiff of their targets and set themselves back...or they just make terrible hires to begin with.

sounds good to me, I have really grown to hate our style of play, like we are whisky south.. no way, not with the atheletes we have we should have been running more and killing the ISU, Cornell, and St. Boni's of the world on pure talent level alone.. weber to controlling and keeps games close that should not be.. Any of those three teams play in an open gym with no coaches, Illinois wins 10 out of 10 and all by atleast 15 points. jmho

Buzz also seems good at player development. His players progress nicely at Marquette outside of Blue, who hasn't become the star I thought he'd be out of HS. They play hard-nosed D but also push the tempo.

Romar could be interesting. Style of play is conducive to recruiting and he has a connection to Jabari Parker. Think the asking price is too high though.

Williams at Marquette is also a good name. But I think there is a lot of pressure to hire an African-American coach or another coach of color. (And not Williams' suits)

Always surprised that with all the talk of Smart that Anthony Grant doesn't get more conversation.

Purely speculating from Mike Thomas' perspective here, but Buzz Williams has always relied on JUCOs to supplement his team, which might not be ideal for two reasons. One, any coach who is hired needs to make it "cool" to attend Illinois for Chicago kids, and using juco players over Chicago incoming freshmen is not a perfect fit. Two, Thomas inherited the post-Bob Huggins/Kennedy mess at Cincy and saw first hand what awful APR numbers can do to a program. JUCOs are more often than not strain APR numbers. Obviously, Illinois under Weber has a great APR, especially compared to the dastardly situation at Cincy that Thomas had to come in and clean up. There is no denying Williams success, familiarity with the area, and energy he would bring to the program (and he did take a long look at the Oklahoma job just last summer, even though Marquette to Oklahoma is a lateral move at best)-but it may not be an ideal candidate to Mike Thomas.

One thing I saw recently I liked about grant is that he suspended a bunch of his good players for discipline.

Guy's got guts. Gotta like that. Wouldn't mind seeing him as a candidate.

HOC - do you think any feelers have or will be sent Grant or Brad Stevens' way?

How strange! We had been discussing the likelihood of losing Jabari Parker to UW because of his connection with Romar, and now we bring up UW possibly losing Romar to us.

I wonder if the reliance on JUCO players is due to a philosophy reason or merely circumstantial. Did he simply not have the pull to get good recruits at the time?

Buzz would not recruit as many juco players if at UI..He would not have to. Maybe one here and there to fill a major void (xtra pg maybe?) but that would not be the normal.. he would be great,imho, young, energy, different mind set, would most likely recruit well, and the chicagohandlers and hangerons would still be upset some how some way:tsk:

no way should MT give in to the two BOT who wanted a AA coach.. he tried his best in sumlin and he refused..those two probably did not even know he tried , they were simply looking at skin color when it was clear MT was not!!!

Get the best man for the job- black, white, purple, blue, red, etc. end of story

my list would be

1) buzz
2) smart
3) Stevens--- drop cuz his offense sucks, imho
4) Grant

would be happy with any of these 4. however, I am rooting for weber to turn it around but still dont think the future is bright with him at the helm.. he is to stubborn and controlling even with good recruits.. his refusal to change and adapt with better players is discouraging to say the least.

Admittedly, I know very little about contracts and buyouts and the like, but I feel like it's noteworthy that each of the guys discussed in this thread are making good money already. Even Smart at VCU signed something like an 8-year/$1.2 mil per season deal after last season with something like an $800,000 buyout. Maybe that's not too bad in today's college bball landscape, but it sounds like a lot.

Whether or not he would, I don't see him considering Illinois unless the terms were just otherworldly, which I can't imagine. As much as I respect and admire him, I also think Illinois will do better with a younger, rising candidate. That's my subjective perspective.

I'd be shocked if we landed Romar, fwiw.

Mine, too.

Not to mention that getting Romar would take more money and more commitment. I'm fine with allocating a big contract for a new coach, but doing so for a coach that would arguably not bring fresh energy to a program is tenuous at best. There are candidates that while they may have more risk, can bring much more reward to the program. Smart has to be at the top of Thomas' list. Young, extremely energetic, smart... just look at this

Tell me that guy wouldn't be huge in recruiting, and tell me that guy wouldn't invigorate a fan base that sorely needs it. When you combine that with his success and good recruiting at VCU - it's a no brainer. What's the worse that could happen? Average basketball that we've seen for 5 years?

All the rumors/speculation are getting me excited about Illini hoops again. Most would appear to be an upgrade at this point. Trash talking from NW alums at work is getting unbearable. Make a move at season's end! I-L-L!

I too am not sold on Romar. I may not be fair, but I don't want Illinois to be his golden parachute.

As for Smart, I don't like guys that don't wear a suit coat with a shirt and tie, so cross him off the list. :)

Not sure where the low opinion of the recruiting base in the Pacific Northwest is coming from. Over the past 10 - 20 years there's been a boatload of talent from this region ... and Romar has gotten his share (as have Pitino, Williams, K, and others).

I definitely believe there is a ton of talent in the pacific northwest, but I think the bigger issue is that Thomas wants to own Chicago. Romar is a good recruiter and I'm sure he could adjust, but I just think that no one wants to shift our recruiting philosophy (at least in the short term) to grabbing those kind of prospects. Personally, I don't care about any of it as long as we get a coach who can revitalize our program. The rest could take care of itself.