I know Bruce has done it on occasion. I remember us using it to pull off an amazing comeback at NW. I just think those clamoring for it to be some regular part of our game plan need to realize it wouldn't be as effective as they seem to think. As an occasional change up, I'll buy that. I would also say we've occasionally used it.

You need to follow the thread. As I demonstrated with statistics, they won primarily because they shot lights out, not because of the press.

Purdue had 7 turnovers in that game. They did NOT get "puked" (whatever that means) by the VCU press.

And yet you just brought up how Bruce Weber used a havoc style press.

We trapped all the time in '04-05. It was a defensive staple and a great tactic to protect our interior defenders since we had a very quick team but lacked interior size.

pretty sure you know what "puked" means if you then turn around and try to prove your case..lol, ok, only 7 turnovers, did you watch the game, do you know what the eye ball test is? if you do you would know they got punked and destroyed on the court.The press took away what purdue wanted to do.I was proving that vcu's style has, fwiw, has been used against a very good bigten team and worked. Will it work all the time, probably not, but that is not what we were discussing

Not to pick on you, Jani, but among those who advocate Collins, this recruiting Chicago idea has been mentioned several times. Can you guys explain what recruiting ties Chris Collins has to Chicago? It is anything more than having been born and played hs ball in the suburbs many years ago?

I'm one of those that wouldn't be disappointed if we went on that improbable run to save Weber's job, but I recognize he is likely gone. Of all the mentioned replacements, Chris Collins would be at the bottom of my "oh yeah" list.

I believe when DePaul hired Purnell, I had read in the Trib that a couple of prominent hs/aau coaches mentioned Collins as a guy they would have liked to see DePaul have hired instead. They said he had ties to the area so I assume that would mean he would recruit well here.

I'll just say I'm intrigued with Collins because:

1. It would appear he will be able to recruit Chicago.
2. He's served under Coach K for awhile now.
3. His dad is a pretty good coach.

Actually, that IS what I am discussing. The fact that the press has worked against one team at one time isn't really relevant when the concern is whether Smart would succeed at Illinois over a number of years.

What I saw in the PU game was a PU team that wasn't emotionally ready to play and a team that really broke down on defense. E'Twaun Moore missed a bunch of shots, but he was hot and cold all season. Purdue put up 76 points which is usually a win for the Boilermakers, but defensively they gave up a ton of layups (very uncharacteristic for that team). Purdue lost their last two big ten games (@ Iowa and a 20-point loss to MSU in the Big 10 tournament), so I'm not sure they were playing their best heading into the tournament.

So congrats to VCU for the win and tournament run, but I'm not sure that is convincing evidence that Smart would be competing for Big 10 championships most years at Illinois.

Lest some misinterpret, Smart is still my top candidate. I don't think we can get Stevens or Buzz Williams, I think Smart gets his guys to play hard and fast, and I think he is intelligent enough to learn and grow as a coach.

Sure
 

USC Season FG% 44.4% vs VCU 39.5% 4.9% Worse
Georgetown Season FG% 47.5% vs. VCU 38.5% 9.0% Worse
Purdue Season FG% 44.7% vs. VCU 44.8% 0.1% Better
Florida State Season FG% 42.5% vs. VCU 36.6% 5.9% Worse
Kansas Season FG% 50.8% vs. VCU 35.5% 15.3% Worse
Butler Season FG% 43.3% vs. VCU 35.6% 7.7% Worse

VCU Season Shooting Percentage Overall 43.4%
vs. USC 33.9% 9.5% Worse
vs. Georgetown 40.9% 2.5% Worse
vs. Purdue 56.9% 13.5% Better
vs. Florida State 45.3% 1.9% Better
vs. Kansas 39.6% 3.8% Worse
vs. Butler 39.7% 3.7% Worse

You have drawn your conclusions, I have drawn mine

Try examining VCU's 3 point shooting %s.

While I admit that it may be time for a change, I don't believe in making a change for changes sake. Shaka Smart would actually be one of the last guys I would like see considered for the job. What we have now is a long time Kady disciple that was coaching a mid-major who managed to get his team in the tournament a couple years in a row and actually won a couple games when he got there. Now people say he just isn't the coach for a big time program. What has Shaka done? Who is he? Another mid-major coach who won a couple of games in the tournament. Are we so sure he is ready to run a big time program based on one run in the tournament? I don't know, Im just not as convinced as some that he would be any better.

A final four is more than "a couple" games in the tournament. A few things I know that Shaka will bring to the table are leadership, enthusiasm, charisma, and excitement. These are all things that have been lacking in Illini basketball for too long. I am more than ready to see what else Smart brings to the table. I wouldn't be surprised if he was very successful recruiting Chicago either because of the attributes listed above.

Ok.....Weber took us to the Final Four and even to the Championship game, so in that respect Weber>Shaka. As far as the attributes you are so sure Shaka will bring to the program....are those necessary to be a winner? Just because Shaka is somewhat more animated does that guarantee more wins? I can name quite a few coaches that have the same demeanor as Weber, some even more laid back, that have been very successful basketball coaches. So while nice, I do not believe they are necessary to achieve what we all want and that is a winning program.
Look, I have absolutely NO apathy for Bruce Weber. I just see possibly the same thing happening to our basketball program that happened to the football program. Everyone wanted Zook out, myself included, only to end up with a "meh" hire. I am all for getting a new coach given the last few years of Illinois basketball, but give me a proven, consistant winner. If you can't get that guy to come to Illinois, don't give me someone just to say you gave me someone.

Tell me how Anthony Grant and Buzz Williams are more proven? Because they're older? They don't have any final fours under their belts. But I guess that was luck. Just to play the NCAA tournament success game, a method a lot of people like to use around here, let's break them down a little farther.

I like Buzz Williams but he's at a much better place in Marquette and the farthest he's gotten is the Sweet Sixteen.

Anthony Grant hasn't exactly lit the world on fire either at Alabama.

And I don't think it'd go over well if we hired Chris Collins, an unproven assistant, over our own Jerrance Howard. I doubt he's an option.

Stevens will probably give us a "thanks but no thanks" response. He's got a good thing going at Butler. Shaka will be the best coach available and we should pursue him as such.

Hate to break it to you, but Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams and Tom Izzo aren't interested. Bill Self probably doesn't want to come back. Phil Jackson is enjoying his retirement and John Wooden is dead.

We're not going to bring in the proven, consistent winner that you may want because they aren't out there. All the good ones already have jobs. So you take a chance on a younger guy at a smaller school with an impressive mindset and basketball IQ. And you hope he turns out to be great. I feel like if Thomas gives Smart an interview, he'll be blown out of the room. If Smart is at all interested, we'll offer him the job, imo.

That's awesome. The kind of energy he'd bring. Can't tell me a guy wouldn't be fired up to play for their coach after seeing that.

This is the situation in a nutshell. There is no "can't miss" coach that would come to Illinois. So the AD has to sort through the list of up-and-comers showing promise and project their success at Illinois. I would bet that Smart interviews well or he wouldn't have moved so quickly up the coaching ladder.

I don't think Izzo has ever done that but his guys sure play hard.

I not sure which one motivates me more, Shaka's charge or Bruce's fist speech.:)

I generally agree with this and if the Illini had done better this year, he would likely have been retained. How much better, is the question. I don't know what the minimum that MT needed to see this year for retention after this year, but it is safe to assume BW didn't meet it.

I'll go one at a time:

Anthony Grant: When he went to VCU, that program finished 1st 3 years in a row and improved while he was there. The Alabama program seems to be on an upswing. Now did he take over programs at the right time, hard to say, but I like that there has been an uptrend with him arriving on the scene twice.

Buzz Williams: I guess it's a closer case, but this guy has shown well in the toughest conference in the last few years and his team seems to be peaking in his 4th year. I'm sorry, but I like that better than a guy(Shaka) at a small conference that has finished 3 years in a row with a worse record than his predecessor had in all 3 of his seasons (Anthony Grant). The ONLY thing that puts Shaka in the conversation is one potentially LUCKY run in the tourney.

Brad Stevens: Why does anyone think this guy is "set" at Butler? Come on, he's moving on to the first big job he likes. You think he wants to be the 3rd or 4th best option for players in his state every year? With the Indiana job potentially looking locked up under Crean, I would not at all be surprised to see Stevens go for our job if available.

The only proven winner that might look at the big ten as a step up would be jay wright at villanova. His conference is calling apart/moving in a worse direction and it might be time for a change of scenery if this years team is considered. I would be okay with that move. If he can recruit Philly and NYC then he can recruit chicago.

Interesting idea, imo

Interesting yes, but still probably a pipe dream. He was on the short list of HC candidates for the Nets a couple years ago but was reportedly not interested.

Indian giver !
First you put it out there, then you take it back:tsk:

I'd be ok with any of Buzz, Stevens, or Grant. I just can't see any of those guys leaving their current situation behind except maybe Stevens but even that would be a long shot. I think with Buzz or Grant you are talking about approaching the high $2 or even $3M range. With Weber's buyout, that just doesn't seem likely. I think we can get Shaka here with a contract in the low $2M range and I think that is a much better value than the other guys. Plus, I think he brings more excitement to the program which is really what this program needs right now.

I just can't see Chicago Public League guys getting fired up to play for Grant, Stevens or Buzz. Hey, I could be wrong. I think at the end of the day, the thing that motivates the majority of Chicago kids is playing in the NBA rather than winning national championships or going to final fours. College success is what Stevens could sell to them quite well. It would help a lot if we could get a coach that had a proven history of getting guys to the league, but I don't think that coach is out there.

Even though Shaka doesn't have a proven track record of getting guys into the NBA, I think he could change the culture here so that high school guys think we are a "cool" place to go again.