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-   -   Bruce Weber on the Hot Seat - Possible Coaching Replacements (http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=17593)

Kramer116 Feb 28, 2012 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhogday (Post 533372)
The really good coaches want a competitive salary but are more interested in a competitive position. The really good coaches are ultimately more interested in winning than compensation. That said, some would view our willingness to pay a head coach top dollar as indicative of "support" for basketball (whatever that means). A school willing to pay for a good coach might also be willing to pay for top notch facilities, a private plane for recruiting, etc...
Another large consideration for a HC when looking at a school is how much they are willing to pool to pay assistants, what the recruiting pool will be, etc.

I know that was an issue with Painter at Purdue when he was looking at Mizzou. He wanted a pay increase for all his assistants, and more money allocated for recruiting like private planes, cars provided for travel etc.

TCTORNADO Feb 28, 2012 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kramer116 (Post 533382)
Another large consideration for a HC when looking at a school is how much they are willing to pool to pay assistants, what the recruiting pool will be, etc.

I know that was an issue with Painter at Purdue when he was looking at Mizzou. He wanted a pay increase for all his assistants, and more money allocated for recruiting like private planes, cars provided for travel etc.
Maybe a skybox for his family in newly renovated AH??

drwillini Feb 28, 2012 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Lemonier (Post 533331)
I've seen a lot of discussion about Smart's relative lack of success in conference during his tenure at VCU however I think through his first 3 years he has shown an ability to get his teams to play their best down the stretch. Most of of the teams they finished behind in conference were pretty decent as well.

2012 VCU finished 2nd to Drexel who has an RPI according to Statsheet of 70. V
VCU is currently riding a streak of winning 14 of 15.

2011 VCU finished 4th behind ODU RPI 23, George Mason RPI 25, and Hofstra RPI 91. As we all know they finished 2011 winning 5 in a row to get to the Final 4

2010 VCU finished 5th behind ODU RPI 29, Northeastern RPI 78, William & Mary RPI 68 and George Mason RPI 163. VCU finished 2010 winning the CBI championship.

It seems to me that in his short time at VCU Smart is getting his teams hot or playing their best ball at the right time
Smart would be a good hire, and I would be excited about him. Still, looking at this record its hard for me to say he should be the consensus leader, when we have a guy just down the road that has taken a simlar school to consecutive NCAA Championship games. If the best thing you can say is that Smart has his guys playing their best at the end of the year, what can you say about Stevens? I really, really think that BS is our Coach K. He might not get the recruits that Cal would get, but he doesn't go after those guys anyway. He recruits good basketball players that fit his system, graduate and don't embarass the university. Oh, and by the way, gets to as many final fours in the last two years as we have in twenty.

Jani Lane Feb 28, 2012 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drwillini (Post 533397)
Smart would be a good hire, and I would be excited about him. Still, looking at this record its hard for me to say he should be the consensus leader, when we have a guy just down the road that has taken a simlar school to consecutive NCAA Championship games.
I'm not going to say Shaka Smart definitely won't work out, but I'm amazed he's considered the runaway favorite by Illini fans. We're talking about a guy that in 3 years hasn't even won the Colonial Athletic Association (4th, 5th & 2nd) and could very possibly miss the tourney in 2 out of his 3 years.

That's really a sad state of the program if that is your best hire for supposedly a Top 10-15 program. We wouldn't be all that happy with those types of finishes in the Big Ten...let alone the CAA.

Oh well, if the administration overpays for Smart, I will have serious doubts about them being any smarter than the average forum poster.

4LaCosaNostra Feb 28, 2012 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533411)
I'm not going to say Shaka Smart definitely won't work out, but I'm amazed he's considered the runaway favorite by Illini fans. We're talking about a guy that in 3 years hasn't even won the Colonial Athletic Association (4th, 5th & 2nd) and could very possibly miss the tourney in 2 out of his 3 years.

That's really a sad state of the program if that is your best hire for supposedly a Top 10-15 program. We wouldn't be all that happy with those types of finishes in the Big Ten...let alone the CAA.

Oh well, if the administration overpays for Smart, I will have serious doubts about them being any smarter than the average forum poster.
good points..i think in general people like him for what he could do (especially at larger school/with more resources) compared to what he has accomplished. Fact it, he is young, AA (a BOT wish), energetic, most likely will recruit well, and has taken low mid major to a ff.. it would seem to fit . but you never know I guess

HeartofaChampion Feb 28, 2012 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533411)
We wouldn't be all that happy with those types of finishes (4th, 5th and 2nd) in the Big Ten...let alone the CAA.
Most fans would be very happy if we finished 4th, 5th and 2nd in the B1G the next 3 years. We haven't had that good of a three-year stretch in the conference since 2004-05-06, not to mention a FF berth.

I Hate Lemonier Feb 28, 2012 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533411)
I'm not going to say Shaka Smart definitely won't work out, but I'm amazed he's considered the runaway favorite by Illini fans. We're talking about a guy that in 3 years hasn't even won the Colonial Athletic Association (4th, 5th & 2nd) and could very possibly miss the tourney in 2 out of his 3 years.

That's really a sad state of the program if that is your best hire for supposedly a Top 10-15 program. We wouldn't be all that happy with those types of finishes in the Big Ten...let alone the CAA.

Oh well, if the administration overpays for Smart, I will have serious doubts about them being any smarter than the average forum poster.
His record compares favorably to Henson's, Self and Weber's when they took over U of I

Jani Lane Feb 28, 2012 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4LaCosaNostra (Post 533413)
good points..i think in general people like him for what he could do (especially at larger school/with more resources) compared to what he has accomplished. Fact it, he is young, AA (a BOT wish), energetic, most likely will recruit well, and has taken low mid major to a ff.. it would seem to fit . but you never know I guess
Don't you think there are more young candidates with even more impressive resumes that would love to come to Champaign...especially considering the talent we have and the ones we have coming in yet? Why can't we get a good coach in a major conference where the passion and potential for basketball isn't as high as here?

I just hope the administration aims high and doesn't just make an impulse hire like Smart based on one tourney run. Smart hasn't even dominated his own conference yet where he's on a level playing field. You can't blame a lack of resources on that. If we were going the mid-major route, Stevens has clearly done much more than Smart and would likely also jump at the opportunity to come here.

Jani Lane Feb 28, 2012 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion (Post 533415)
Most fans would be very happy if we finished 4th, 5th and 2nd in the B1G the next 3 years. We haven't had that good of a three-year stretch in the conference since 2004-05-06, not to mention a FF berth.
4th, 5th and 2nd would still have some fans complaining, but yes, I would agree that is acceptable for the Big Ten even if I'd hope for more. That being said, is that really acceptable for the CAA?

IlliniRunIn07 Feb 28, 2012 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533420)
If we were going the mid-major route, Stevens has clearly done much more than Smart and would likely also jump at the opportunity to come here.
Why do you say that about Stevens? Obviously, none of us know. But most have the impression he won't come here. So, why do you say he likely would?

Jani Lane Feb 28, 2012 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Lemonier (Post 533417)
His record compares favorably to Henson's, Self and Weber's when they took over U of I
Bruce Weber finished 1st his last two years at SIU. Bill Self had finished 1st his last two years at Tulsa. That's four more 1st place finishes than Shaka has ever had.

Look, I'm not trying to say Shaka Smart can't succeed here. I'm just saying he is a very, very questionable hire for a program that considers themselves to be a Top 10-15 program in the country.

OrangeFever Feb 28, 2012 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCTORNADO (Post 533381)
Maybe even change the name from university of east central Illinois to THE University Of Illinois.!!:)
A global statement that the "good" coaches are more interested in a good position and/or winning than in compensation is a nice fiction. Really, it's an unknown. It's a projection of some ethic of the declarant, which has no basis in reality. Really smart people make big mistakes sometimes (Bill Clinton, come on down). Principled people have mixed motivations at times, and seeking compensation for effort certainly is in no way a bad thing, contrary to the implication of the pronouncement to which I refer.

I know you didn't advance this silly notion; you were responding to the post.

Let's keep to what we know and identify speculative personal opinion as just that.

bleedsorangenblue Feb 28, 2012 12:20 PM
I think the thing about Smart is the energy, enthusiasm, and the fact that the players seem to be willing to buy in full force. With a guy like that, I don't think recruiting will skip a beat...... particularly if Howard is somehow convinced to stay on board. He will create a lot of media attention wherever he goes once he leaves VCU. That kind of exposure is priceless. The other aspects are the AA issue and somewhat affordability. While some of the other names are exciting and as good or better, I just don't think they create the buzz that Smart does....... something this program sorely needs.

I Hate Lemonier Feb 28, 2012 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533424)
Bruce Weber finished 1st his last two years at SIU. Bill Self had finished 1st his last two years at Tulsa. That's four more 1st place finishes than Shaka has ever had.

Look, I'm not trying to say Shaka Smart can't succeed here. I'm just saying he is a very, very questionable hire for a program that considers themselves to be a Top 10-15 program in the country.
Neither of them had a final 4 either

Jcool Feb 28, 2012 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533420)
Don't you think there are more young candidates with even more impressive resumes that would love to come to Champaign...especially considering the talent we have and the ones we have coming in yet? Why can't we get a good coach in a major conference where the passion and potential for basketball isn't as high as here?

I just hope the administration aims high and doesn't just make an impulse hire like Smart based on one tourney run. Smart hasn't even dominated his own conference yet where he's on a level playing field. You can't blame a lack of resources on that. If we were going the mid-major route, Stevens has clearly done much more than Smart and would likely also jump at the opportunity to come here.
Doesn't bother you that Stevens is 18-13 and 11-7 in the Horizon league this year?

Jani Lane Feb 28, 2012 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IlliniRunIn07 (Post 533423)
Why do you say that about Stevens? Obviously, none of us know. But most have the impression he won't come here. So, why do you say he likely would?
Thad Matta and Todd Lickliter both showed that Butler is really more a stepping stone than a destination. I'm guessing Brad Steven's dream job is IU but that doesn't appear to be opening anytime soon. Is he really going to stay at Butler and lose out on players in state every single year to IU, Purdue and even Notre Dame? Or might he jump ship to join the Big Ten one state over and be the big dog in Illinois with a stacked roster and more on the way?

I have no inside info whatsoever, but I think it's a no-brainer for Stevens to be EXTREMELY interested if our job opens up. In fact, I'd be shocked if he turned us down if we offered.

Jani Lane Feb 28, 2012 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue (Post 533426)
I think the thing about Smart is the energy, enthusiasm, and the fact that the players seem to be willing to buy in full force. With a guy like that, I don't think recruiting will skip a beat...... particularly if Howard is somehow convinced to stay on board. He will create a lot of media attention wherever he goes once he leaves VCU. That kind of exposure is priceless. The other aspects are the AA issue and somewhat affordability. While some of the other names are exciting and as good or better, I just don't think they create the buzz that Smart does....... something this program sorely needs.
I hate to beat down the same point but how much has that enthusiasm, energy and whatever else helped him in the COLONIAL ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION?? Not enough to win the conference even once in 3 years.

And the run in the tourney was great, but are you so sure that this one run was some major indicator that Shaka should coach your Top 10-15 program. I'm just not sold. I think those players were more motivated by ESPN and Jay Bilas blasting them for being included in the tourney period than they were by anything Shaka said or did.

Jcool Feb 28, 2012 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Lemonier (Post 533427)
Neither of them had a final 4 either
That doesn't mean anything...

Jani Lane Feb 28, 2012 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcool (Post 533428)
Doesn't bother you that Stevens is 18-13 and 11-7 in the Horizon league this year?
I never said he was my top candidate but no, not really. It could be a very young team learning their way. In 5 years, he's finished 1st 4 times and he is 3rd this year. Very impressive resume.

HeartofaChampion Feb 28, 2012 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533421)
4th, 5th and 2nd would still have some fans complaining, but yes, I would agree that is acceptable for the Big Ten even if I'd hope for more. That being said, is that really acceptable for the CAA?
I've hoped for more than 4th and 5th place finishes from UI for several years, but it hasn't happened. Going 4th next year, 5th in 2014 and 2nd in 2015 would mean we're trending upward.

Second in the CAA with a young squad is very good. 5th isn't, but reaching the FF more than made up for that. Postseason success is more important to most fans, me included, than conference finishes.

I Hate Lemonier Feb 28, 2012 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcool (Post 533435)
That doesn't mean anything...
You better get that news out to the entire college basketball community then, because pretty much everything about the game revolves around it. The world needs to know that their emphasis on reaching the Final 4 was misplaced

bleedsorangenblue Feb 28, 2012 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533429)
I think it's a no-brainer for Stevens to be EXTREMELY interested if our job opens up. In fact, I'd be shocked if he turned us down if we offered.
I agree that Stevens should be interested in U of I but that does not mean he will be. Timing might be an issue with his wife's career being a factor. Although some have said that him being here might not be an issue since it is not that far away from Indy. With the kind of money they would be making, they could have a house both places. Comfort level with the pressure to succeed here might be an issue. Being white may be a factor. Is he really ready to jump into the frying pan? There might be some equally satisfying jobs down the road with less pressure attached. Can he recruit Chicago? These are all issues that relate to fit. Is he the best fit for our program at this time?

Jcool Feb 28, 2012 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Lemonier (Post 533440)
You better get that news out to the entire college basketball community then, because pretty much everything about the game revolves around it. The world needs to know that their emphasis on reaching the Final 4 was misplaced
:rolleyes:

Jcool Feb 28, 2012 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533436)
I never said he was my top candidate but no, not really. It could be a very young team learning their way. In 5 years, he's finished 1st 4 times and he is 3rd this year. Very impressive resume.
They were still favored to win the league this year.

HeartofaChampion Feb 28, 2012 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jani Lane (Post 533420)
If we were going the mid-major route, Stevens has clearly done much more than Smart and would likely also jump at the opportunity to come here.
I only know about MT contacting SS and LR at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's reached out to BS's camp, too. I wouldn't be surprised, either, if BS turns him down. No inside knowledge on this one. Just a sense that UI isn't a good fit for him from a recruiting standpoint or where he wants to end up.


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