Jonathan Brown Knee

Chilliniwek · Oct 2, 2011, 01:01 PM

i watched Ward quite a bit after that and he also attempted a cut block on, pretty sure it was Brown, in the second half. Not sure if cut block is the right term, but he lunged right at his ankles, pretty sure this is illegal, but no penalty. He also seemed to frequently hold his blocks longer than needed.

Not saying the kid is a dirty player, but I believe he was playing somewhat out of control. And he exhibited no signs of a guy that took a direct, hard hit to his junk. I do give him credit for his acting ability.

-josh- · Oct 2, 2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weasel88

When he did it it was not in reaction to any event immediately prior, it was retaliation for something that occurred earlier--therefore, premeditated. He was looking for his chance and found it. I don't find any justification whatsoever for this behavior and hopefully Zook, Koenning, & co. will not either.

I hope they give him a helmet sticker.

KBLEE · Oct 2, 2011, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -josh-

I hope they give him a helmet sticker.

orangekrush117 · Oct 2, 2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weasel88

When he did it it was not in reaction to any event immediately prior, it was retaliation for something that occurred earlier--therefore, premeditated. He was looking for his chance and found it. I don't find any justification whatsoever for this behavior and hopefully Zook, Koenning, & co. will not either.

While I understand what you are getting at, you are flat out wrong. If you meant to say, Jonathan Brown had it in his head to perform the knee, then I would agree. However, you make it sound like he was planning something all game just to be malicious. The guy was likely trash talking all game (speculation), had just committed an egregious hold on JB, and took an unnecessary cheap shot at Terry Hawthorne. Between the Hawthorne shot and the knee there was maybe 3-5 seconds? How can you possibly say he was not reacting to anything?

NxtLvelIllini7 · Oct 2, 2011, 01:43 PM

No harm no foul

I know any man that actually received a full on knee to the groin would have dropped like rock!!!! So it must not have harmed him to bad he just through his arms up.

#70 was not a lil angel out there either.. watch tonight on the BTN at 7

Dan · Oct 2, 2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

I wanna apologize to my coaches, fans and family for the way I acted yesterday. I acted out of charecter and it was embarrassing and ...

And it won't happen again

J_B_45

Dan · Oct 2, 2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Ron Zook on Jonathan Brown penalty: “I can guarantee you will never see that again. I’ll deal with it.”

Ron Zook won't comment on whether Brown will be suspended or not for penalty.

WernerConnectFM

weasel88 · Oct 2, 2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangekrush117

While I understand what you are getting at, you are flat out wrong. If you meant to say, Jonathan Brown had it in his head to perform the knee, then I would agree. However, you make it sound like he was planning something all game just to be malicious. The guy was likely trash talking all game (speculation), had just committed an egregious hold on JB, and took an unnecessary cheap shot at Terry Hawthorne. Between the Hawthorne shot and the knee there was maybe 3-5 seconds? How can you possibly say he was not reacting to anything?

I don't know how you get that I make it sound like he was planning "all game" to be malicious. I also don't get why Brown would need to retaliate for Hawthorne--Hawthorne was right there and can certainly take care of himself. As for there being 3-5 seconds between the incident with TH and JB's dumb move, that qualifies as premeditated. JB had time to try (poorly) to scope the refs, move into position, take aim, and fire. If he had been right next to Ward when the Hawthorne thing went down and immediately reacted, he most likely would have done so with a punch or shove, not a shot to the nuts.

Turn this around--if an opponent deliberately and intentionally gave a knee to one of our guys in the nads, there would be a clamor on this board to have that player suspended. Somehow when one of our guys does it we come up with every possible reason to justify it, say that Ward was flopping, say the ref was "nonchalant", and other irrational justifications. It's simple--there is NO justification for it. It was stupid, thuggish behavior that we wouldn't tolerate from an opponent, and therefore we should not tolerate it from ourselves.

ncoillini · Oct 2, 2011, 02:39 PM

Chill, exactly what I am talking about. OL are notorious for cheap shots that go unflagged. Going after knees and ankles is about hurting a player. Believe me, taking shots in your ankles is not fun but, it's a part of the game. Brown should have handled it differently, maybe with a forearm shivver under his facemask. I'm sure people would be up in arms on that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilliniwek

i watched Ward quite a bit after that and he also attempted a cut block on, pretty sure it was Brown, in the second half. Not sure if cut block is the right term, but he lunged right at his ankles, pretty sure this is illegal, but no penalty. He also seemed to frequently hold his blocks longer than needed.

Not saying the kid is a dirty player, but I believe he was playing somewhat out of control. And he exhibited no signs of a guy that took a direct, hard hit to his junk. I do give him credit for his acting ability.

orangekrush117 · Oct 2, 2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weasel88

I don't know how you get that I make it sound like he was planning "all game" to be malicious. I also don't get why Brown would need to retaliate for Hawthorne--Hawthorne was right there and can certainly take care of himself. As for there being 3-5 seconds between the incident with TH and JB's dumb move, that qualifies as premeditated. JB had time to try (poorly) to scope the refs, move into position, take aim, and fire. If he had been right next to Ward when the Hawthorne thing went down and immediately reacted, he most likely would have done so with a punch or shove, not a shot to the nuts.

Turn this around--if an opponent deliberately and intentionally gave a knee to one of our guys in the nads, there would be a clamor on this board to have that player suspended. Somehow when one of our guys does it we come up with every possible reason to justify it, say that Ward was flopping, say the ref was "nonchalant", and other irrational justifications. It's simple--there is NO justification for it. It was stupid, thuggish behavior that we wouldn't tolerate from an opponent, and therefore we should not tolerate it from ourselves.

You said he wasn't reacting to anything. That OL had just held him by the neck on the previous play, and then had just cheap shotted a fellow member of his team. If you don't understand why a player would come to the defense of a teammate, then I'm not sure there's much I can explain to you that won't go over your head. If that's what you want to call premeditated then ok, it does fit the literal definition. In my mind, premeditated would be JB kneeing the OL 2-3 plays later when it was completely unexpected, not 3 seconds after the instigating act.

As far as the bolded, aren't we kind of jumping the gun punishing a guy for something when we are assuming an intent based on his actions? JB looked to the right, clearly where he would have seen the ref behind him. If his intent was to "scope" for refs, do we not think he would have seen the ref right behind him, or looked the other direction as well? I'll give you that the evidence is damming, but we don't know for sure that he's looking for refs. In that sense, it's not fair to blast him for doing something premeditated when you have no idea of knowing if that's what he was doing.

Turning it around doesn't change my mind on anything. NU fans have every right to be pissed. I'm pissed that he was dumb enough to do something like that and cost his team points and embarrassed his program. But, just because I feel that way, doesn't mean there aren't reasons for why it happened, and it definitely doesn't make it any more premeditated or opportunistic. I agree with your reaction to the cheap shot, not with your interpretation of it.

Chilliniwek · Oct 2, 2011, 03:11 PM

I'll say this one more time, mainly cause I'm going after my 100th post gold-star, but I don't condone what JB did. I just don't think Ward was really hurt; the evidence shows that immediately after the play when he's walking around and playing on the next play. I think Brown was flagged because the ref was five feet away and had no other option but to call an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. It was unsportsmanlike, even if he missed, just like a missed punch.

And, as has been mentioned more than once, if you take a hard, direct hit there, at best you're puking, on your knees and wanting the world to go away. Ward wasn't exhibiting any of that behavior.

NicelyDone · Oct 2, 2011, 03:32 PM

Ward's old man played for the Illini. He plays for Northwestern and his brother is going to play for Iowa..................

Someone should have knocked the old man in the sack a few years back.

AlamoIllini · Oct 2, 2011, 05:31 PM

The official, the Ref, had a direct view of the incident, and called the penalty. But, under NCAA rules, striking with a knee is a flagrant foul requiring disqualification.

It will interesting to see the response from the BT office governing officials and officiating. My insight tells me the conference tomorrow, precludes his play in the IU game, and a possible reprimand for the referee for not ejecting him from the game?

AI

FeelYourPaign · Oct 2, 2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NV Illini 74

Have these guys stopped wearing cups? Because the only way someone could have been hurt from that creampuff knee shot is if there was no cup involved AND JB scored a direct hit.

From what I've read, more than 50% of the guys in the NFL do NOT wear a cup. They say that the "rubbage" is intolerable and so they risk the contact. Amazing to me, but that's their take.

RockyMtnIllini81 · Oct 2, 2011, 06:58 PM

http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncf/story...ged-cheap-shot

Focus, discipline, common sense. Whatever Ward did, don't do anything in retaliation - except kick his butt on the field.

chief4life · Oct 2, 2011, 08:43 PM

I've read several people, here, on ESPN, and Lake the Posts saying Brown looked to see if a ref was watching and then kneed the guy. I didn't see the play live from my seat at MS, but I'm watching the replay on BTN and I really don't think he wa looking to see if anyone was watching. After watching it a few times on the DVR I think Brown looked back at the ref to see if he was going to call #70 for going high and late on Hawthorne, and if you watch closely, he kind of lifts his hand towards the ref like, "Are you going to call that?" and when he saw he wasn't, he decided to take retribution for his teammate in his own hands.

Very dumb thing to do, but he didn't look like he really went with the knee hard, and has been noted, he didn't connect, because if he had, #70 wouldn't have been in the next play. None of this excuses the act, but the ref 3 feet away didn't feel it warranted an ejection, so I don't think a suspension is warranted, but with all the coverage it's getting the B1G will probably capitulate and suspend him for a half. I think a more appropriate punishment would be a lot of extra running and labor at practice until the message sinks in.

Long live the Chief.

Illini125 · Oct 2, 2011, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief4life

I've read several people, here, on ESPN, and Lake the Posts saying Brown looked to see if a ref was watching and then kneed the guy. I didn't see the play live from my seat at MS, but I'm watching the replay on BTN and I really don't think he wa looking to see if anyone was watching. After watching it a few times on the DVR I think Brown looked back at the ref to see if he was going to call #70 for going high and late on Hawthorne, and if you watch closely, he kind of lifts his hand towards the ref like, "Are you going to call that?" and when he saw he wasn't, he decided to take retribution for his teammate in his own hands.

I'm with you there. If he was actually checking to see if a ref was watching, we need to have his eyes checked if he didn't noticed the ref walking towards him from 3 feet away.

I watched the replay on BTN tonight, and thought it was kind of funny how the announcers reacted as if they had seen a murder on the field. It really wasn't that bad

Chilliniwek · Oct 3, 2011, 12:26 AM

Watching the replay and on NU's first play from scrimmage, Ward pushes Spence squarely in the back as the play is ending...Spence gestures towards the ref as if to say, "Did you see that?"

illiniflight33 · Oct 3, 2011, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weasel88

It doesn't matter what happened before it. The "he started it first" argument is childish and deflects accountability for negative actions.

I disagree, if the kid he kneed had gone after his knees on a crackback, or tried to gouge his eyes, they yeah, it isnt right, and he shouldnt have done it.but I can understand it.

I do think he should have been ejected from the game, unless the ref felt their was some back and forth actions going on.

I dislike suspensions from the NCAA, or Big Ten in future games, if the coach wants to sit him on his own, I dont have an issue.

Bottom line, these kids have to keep their tempers in check, and finish it off during the play.

Dan · Oct 3, 2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

#Illini coach Ron Zook has suspended LB Jonathan Brown for the Indiana game. Zook statement & Brown apology here: http://bit.ly/pV61PB

IlliniFootball

fish48 · Oct 3, 2011, 08:35 AM

Good call by Zook here. At least Brown knows that he screwed up and isn't blaming anyone else. After this week, Brown will be back on the field and it will all be behind them.

Botb9 · Oct 3, 2011, 08:37 AM

Good for Zook for taking a stand on this. The biggest problem I had with the cheap shot is the fact that this is just the sort of thing that Fitzgerald intimated when he said NU recruits a different kind of kid than Illinois. Then we go and prove him right. That bothered me more than anything.

DrewD007 · Oct 3, 2011, 08:46 AM

Good job by Zook. I don't think JB will be doing anything like that again.

doubled · Oct 3, 2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botb9

Good for Zook for taking a stand on this. The biggest problem I had with the cheap shot is the fact that this is just the sort of thing that Fitzgerald intimated when he said NU recruits a different kind of kid than Illinois. Then we go and prove him right. That bothered me more than anything.

I thought the same thing. I think Zook is doing the right thing here. We should still be fine against IU and maybe we can see one of the true frosh this weekend.

caillini84 · Oct 3, 2011, 09:03 AM

Definitely the right call, especially with the long term in mind - need to send a clear message to the team and to recruits that these things will not be tolerated. This may also help to further clean up personal fouls (which have been better but still not eradicated).

This can also strengthen the team, by giving more playing time to others this week, and it will help us for the tOSU game and future games by giving JB a rest.

That said, this can have an impact on the IU game for sure - I know there is a 16 point spread so the betting line thinks we have ~90% chance of winning, but IU has been losing by small margins (while we have won close games), this is our first road trip, sandwiched between emotional games, and now JB is out -- things start to add up, and in football, like in any sport, little things can make a big difference. And losing JB is not a little thing.

Oct 2, 2011, 01:01 PM	#76
Chilliniwek Location: Chicagoland Posts: 375	i watched Ward quite a bit after that and he also attempted a cut block on, pretty sure it was Brown, in the second half. Not sure if cut block is the right term, but he lunged right at his ankles, pretty sure this is illegal, but no penalty. He also seemed to frequently hold his blocks longer than needed. Not saying the kid is a dirty player, but I believe he was playing somewhat out of control. And he exhibited no signs of a guy that took a direct, hard hit to his junk. I do give him credit for his acting ability. __________________ "Illinois...I'm your boy..." Dan Fogelberg

Oct 2, 2011, 01:43 PM	#80
NxtLvelIllini7 Location: C-U, IL Posts: 1,304	No harm no foul I know any man that actually received a full on knee to the groin would have dropped like rock!!!! So it must not have harmed him to bad he just through his arms up. #70 was not a lil angel out there either.. watch tonight on the BTN at 7 __________________

Oct 2, 2011, 03:11 PM	#86
Chilliniwek Location: Chicagoland Posts: 375	I'll say this one more time, mainly cause I'm going after my 100th post gold-star, but I don't condone what JB did. I just don't think Ward was really hurt; the evidence shows that immediately after the play when he's walking around and playing on the next play. I think Brown was flagged because the ref was five feet away and had no other option but to call an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. It was unsportsmanlike, even if he missed, just like a missed punch. And, as has been mentioned more than once, if you take a hard, direct hit there, at best you're puking, on your knees and wanting the world to go away. Ward wasn't exhibiting any of that behavior. __________________ "Illinois...I'm your boy..." Dan Fogelberg

Oct 2, 2011, 05:31 PM	#88
AlamoIllini Posts: 1,262	Side Bar - The Official The official, the Ref, had a direct view of the incident, and called the penalty. But, under NCAA rules, striking with a knee is a flagrant foul requiring disqualification. It will interesting to see the response from the BT office governing officials and officiating. My insight tells me the conference tomorrow, precludes his play in the IU game, and a possible reprimand for the referee for not ejecting him from the game? AI

Oct 2, 2011, 08:43 PM	#91
chief4life Chief Supporter Location: Michigan Posts: 91	I've read several people, here, on ESPN, and Lake the Posts saying Brown looked to see if a ref was watching and then kneed the guy. I didn't see the play live from my seat at MS, but I'm watching the replay on BTN and I really don't think he wa looking to see if anyone was watching. After watching it a few times on the DVR I think Brown looked back at the ref to see if he was going to call #70 for going high and late on Hawthorne, and if you watch closely, he kind of lifts his hand towards the ref like, "Are you going to call that?" and when he saw he wasn't, he decided to take retribution for his teammate in his own hands. Very dumb thing to do, but he didn't look like he really went with the knee hard, and has been noted, he didn't connect, because if he had, #70 wouldn't have been in the next play. None of this excuses the act, but the ref 3 feet away didn't feel it warranted an ejection, so I don't think a suspension is warranted, but with all the coverage it's getting the B1G will probably capitulate and suspend him for a half. I think a more appropriate punishment would be a lot of extra running and labor at practice until the message sinks in. Long live the Chief. __________________ Long Live the Chief

Oct 2, 2011, 03:32 PM	#87
NicelyDone Posts: 168	Ward's old man played for the Illini. He plays for Northwestern and his brother is going to play for Iowa.................. Someone should have knocked the old man in the sack a few years back.

Oct 2, 2011, 06:58 PM	#90
RockyMtnIllini81 Location: Golden, Colorado Posts: 302	http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncf/story...ged-cheap-shot Focus, discipline, common sense. Whatever Ward did, don't do anything in retaliation - except kick his butt on the field.

Oct 3, 2011, 12:26 AM	#93
Chilliniwek Location: Chicagoland Posts: 375	Watching the replay and on NU's first play from scrimmage, Ward pushes Spence squarely in the back as the play is ending...Spence gestures towards the ref as if to say, "Did you see that?" __________________ "Illinois...I'm your boy..." Dan Fogelberg

Oct 3, 2011, 08:35 AM	#96
fish48 Banned Posts: 547	Good call by Zook here. At least Brown knows that he screwed up and isn't blaming anyone else. After this week, Brown will be back on the field and it will all be behind them.

Oct 3, 2011, 08:37 AM	#97
Botb9 Realist Posts: 3,155	Good for Zook for taking a stand on this. The biggest problem I had with the cheap shot is the fact that this is just the sort of thing that Fitzgerald intimated when he said NU recruits a different kind of kid than Illinois. Then we go and prove him right. That bothered me more than anything. __________________ Hype is a self-serving beast that feeds on the hopes and dreams of fans.

Oct 3, 2011, 08:46 AM	#98
DrewD007 Location: Swansea, IL Posts: 3,529	Good job by Zook. I don't think JB will be doing anything like that again. __________________ Follow me! http://www.twitter.com/illinidrew11

Oct 3, 2011, 09:03 AM	#100
caillini84 Banned Posts: 479	Definitely the right call, especially with the long term in mind - need to send a clear message to the team and to recruits that these things will not be tolerated. This may also help to further clean up personal fouls (which have been better but still not eradicated). This can also strengthen the team, by giving more playing time to others this week, and it will help us for the tOSU game and future games by giving JB a rest. That said, this can have an impact on the IU game for sure - I know there is a 16 point spread so the betting line thinks we have ~90% chance of winning, but IU has been losing by small margins (while we have won close games), this is our first road trip, sandwiched between emotional games, and now JB is out -- things start to add up, and in football, like in any sport, little things can make a big difference. And losing JB is not a little thing.