Expectations

[Foo G]

Originally Posted by Rall

... but TA is adequate and will grow...

The fact that Abrams is coachable and such a hard worker really bodes well for this team.
He may not be viewed as being an ideal "John Groce" point guard right now, but I believe that he will quickly develop into it.
The kid is a winner and takes direction well.
He also seems very smart and knows his where his strengths and limitations lie.
He could play for anybody in any system and be successful.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange

I agree with the premise. And I agree that we do not have great guards. However, have you considered that playing in a regimented system with a micromanaging coach could magnify the issues? I'm skeptical of our prospects but at the same time, I have seen flashes from all of these players. I would not be utterly shocked if we saw dramatically improved ball skills from each of our guards this season.

The motion is the opposite of regimented, and contrary to public perception Weber did not micromanage. In fact, he probably didn't manage enough, particularly with regard to his assistants.

All the reports we've been getting from Groce's practices pretty much confirm what we saw last year under Weber with regard to these players' skills. Groce would have loved to land a 5th year transfer PG comparable to Maniscalco, but none were on the market this year. I would expect substantial improvement in PG skills from TA because point guards usually need a year to adjust to this level. I'm not expecting a big improvement in ball handling or passing skills from JB, DJ or BP.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

The motion is the opposite of regimented.

BW's version of the motion was pretty restrictive. He discouraged players from taking shots early in the clock whether open or not, and discouraged them from driving early in the clock as well. He also emphasized lots of patterned/structured off-ball screening and movement and discouraged any iso play except at the end of the clock when we had to do it. Even our ball screens were designed to basically eat up the clock and make the defense work/wear down as part of some continuity patterns; early in the clock, guards would go 2-3 feet around ball screens instead of rubbing their defender into the screens and driving or pulling up because they knew these screens weren't designed to get them open looks but get them into continuity and work the ball sideline to sideline. I've never seen UI practice, but my buddy's friend said the team's work on motion sets was like watching programmed robots at times. So much of BW's motion the last few years was about trying to wear down defenses over the course of the game by making them guard lots of screen action on and off the ball with patterned movements that used 15-20 seconds of shot clock time.

PU's motion is quite a bit different from BW's motion in that Painter emphasizes more dribble driving and taking open looks earlier in the clock. Painter is a bigger proponent of getting to the line and gives his guards more freedom to look to drive and to get out in transition. I won't miss BW's emphasis on the long jump shot as a central focus of his offense.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

BW's version of the motion was pretty restrictive. He discouraged players from taking shots early in the clock whether open or not, and discouraged them from driving early in the clock as well. He also emphasized lots of patterned/structured off-ball screening and movement and discouraged any iso play except at the end of the clock when we had to do it. Even our ball screens were designed to basically eat up the clock and make the defense work/wear down as part of some continuity patterns; early in the clock, guards would go 2-3 feet around ball screens instead of rubbing their defender into the screens and driving or pulling up because they knew these screens weren't designed to get them open looks but get them into continuity and work the ball sideline to sideline. I've never seen UI practice, but my buddy's friend said the team's work on motion sets was like watching programmed robots at times. So much of BW's motion the last few years was about trying to wear down defenses over the course of the game by making them guard lots of screen action on and off the ball with patterned movements that used 15-20 seconds of shot clock time.

PU's motion is quite a bit different from BW's motion in that Painter emphasizes more dribble driving and taking open looks earlier in the clock. Painter is a bigger proponent of getting to the line and gives his guards more freedom to look to drive and to get out in transition. I won't miss BW's emphasis on the long jump shot as a central focus of his offense.

Of course, Purdue had players who could handle and pass the ball. And Weber gave his guards substantially more freedom when he had capable guards. There is certainly some chicken vs. egg in the devolution of our offense the past year.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Of course, Purdue had players who could handle and pass the ball. And Weber gave his guards substantially more freedom when he had capable guards. There is certainly some chicken vs. egg in the devolution of our offense the past year.

BW's motion definitely flagged when he was unable to attract enough good guards, a mix of drivers, passers and shooters, to run and execute it. By and large, that was his last 6 years at UI. He also recruited the wrong kinds of guards for his system. Even when we executed his motion well, like Meacham's SR year, we were never a great offensive team after 2005. Our offense was hard to watch most seasons post-Deron and Lu and very mechanical looking as well.

[JimmyChitwood]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

The motion is the opposite of regimented, and contrary to public perception Weber did not micromanage. In fact, he probably didn't manage enough, particularly with regard to his assistants.

All the reports we've been getting from Groce's practices pretty much confirm what we saw last year under Weber with regard to these players' skills. Groce would have loved to land a 5th year transfer PG comparable to Maniscalco, but none were on the market this year. I would expect substantial improvement in PG skills from TA because point guards usually need a year to adjust to this level. I'm not expecting a big improvement in ball handling or passing skills from JB, DJ or BP.

I believe he micromanaged things he could control such as substitutions, game management (offense and defensive schemes) and clock management for the most part. There is a reason he was on his feet yelling at players all game long. The dude did not trust his guys enough to allow them to run the offense or defense on their own lol. I'd call that micromanaging and like he said "coaching not to lose".

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by JimmyChitwood

I believe he micromanaged things he could control such as substitutions, game management (offense and defensive schemes) and clock management for the most part. There is a reason he was on his feet yelling at players all game long. The dude did not trust his guys enough to allow them to run the offense or defense on their own lol. I'd call that micromanaging and like he said "coaching not to lose".

You probably won't like Groce much. He is also constantly on his feet shouting instructions.

[TCTORNADO]

Not sure if these 3 are expectations, but more curiosities.

#1--How is the AH crowd going to respond? Will we regain the tremendous home court advantage we had early on the 2000's or will we see thousand's of no shows, apathetic crowds, 1 sellout, etc. JG has even mentioned that when he was at OSU that at times they couldn't even communicate when playing at AH. 9 wins in B1G @AH go along way to competing for championships. Thoughts??
#2--Sam McLaurin could be a huge wild card. I want to see how his CC game translates to B1G. His defensive and rebounding prowess will be interesting to watch. Could he be a 6th MOY candidate with a good season. Thoughts?
#3--People have always said that 2 of JG's best traits are his motivational skills and his confidence building skills. This should be fairly evident early on. Last years lack of motivation and confidence translated into one of the worst stretches of BB ever. Thoughts?

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

BW's motion definitely flagged when he was unable to attract enough good guards, a mix of drivers, passers and shooters, to run and execute it. By and large, that was his last 6 years at UI. He also recruited the wrong kinds of guards for his system. Even when we executed his motion well, like Meacham's SR year, we were never a great offensive team after 2005. Our offense was hard to watch most seasons post-Deron and Lu and very mechanical looking as well.

"Mechanical" is the perfect word to describe the offense the past few years. It always seemed like not enough guys were moving at one time. Player A would pass to Player B, then Player C would move, and so on.

[JimmyChitwood]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

You probably won't like Groce much. He is also constantly on his feet shouting instructions.

Yes he does. I dont mind coaches being up and around if I dont think they are hurting the players on the court. Im pretty sure there was more then 1 occasion last yr that Bruce's sideline antics actually cost us plays. It's one thing to be yelling out what play to run and another thing to be yelling directly at the player as if you are trying to get their attention while the play is going on. Bruce loved yelling out player's names directly which was retarded. DJ!!!!!!!! then DJ looks over at Bruce while the ball goes past him lol. Ridiculous, and if Groce does the same, Ill hate it just the same.



Demetri!!!!!!!!

Demetri!!!!!!!

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by JimmyChitwood

Yes he does. I dont mind coaches being up and around if I dont think they are hurting the players on the court. Im pretty sure there was more then 1 occasion last yr that Bruce's sideline antics actually cost us plays. It's one thing to be yelling out what play to run and another thing to be yelling directly at the player as if you are trying to get their attention while the play is going on. Bruce loved yelling out player's names directly which was retarded. DJ!!!!!!!! then DJ looks over at Bruce while the ball goes past him lol. Ridiculous, and if Groce does the same, Ill hate it just the same.



Demetri!!!!!!!!

Demetri!!!!!!!

Groce also yells instructions to specific players. Constantly. He is an extremely active, hands on sideline coach.

[Groundhogday]

I'm seeing the same thing on many different threads, when it comes to Weber many Illini fans have their judgement impaired by the Halo Effect (sometimes called the devil effect when negatively applied).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

Bruce Weber lost too many basketball games, so fans rightly have a negative perception of his performance as a coach. However, there is strong psychological tendency to perceive everything about Weber and his coaching as wrong or flawed because we are so disappointed with the number of losses. His voice, his mannerisms, his sideline comportment, his practices, his player substitution patterns, etc... And yet, this same coach won led one of the best teams we have ever had at Illinois in 2005 (while yelling from the sidelines, employing the motion offense, eschewing zone defenses, and playing a very short rotation.) Logically, it is probably far more likely that he did somethings right and somethings wrong as a coach. He has strengths and weaknesses as do most coaches. And there is more than one way to be successful.

If the critics are right and everything about Weber's coaching was deeply flawed, then we should see a dramatically better team this year. Yes, we lost Meyers Leonard but all of those top-100 freshmen will be sophomores. If Weber was really such a bad coach, then we should be competing for a top-3 finish in the league this year now that we have a good coach.

Personally, I doubt that happens. I think that for all of Weber's flaws as a coach his really glaring flaw was an inability to evaluate and acquire top high school talent. His second biggest flaw was a tendency to dwell too much on the negative, and let negative energy build up in the program. After that, everything else fits into the "small potatoes" or "different strokes for different folks" categories. A more positive attitude will probably help some, but it won't fix the PG problem.

[Rall]

I agree completely with HOC post #128. BW's motion used up 15+ seconds just swinging the ball around and player movement not to seek the earliest quality shot. That left less than 20 seconds to get serious to get that shot opportunity. And we didn't have the skills to get it causing poor shots at the end of the shot clock too often.
I believe that Groces' offense will be more opportunistic oriented with taking the first quality shot. I do think our players will be ready and able to take those shots and driving opportunities.
And how about transition fast break opportunities. Since 2006 and especially the last couple of years we have been deplorable in that facet of the game. A couple of easy fast break buckets a game can get the emotions up and start some point streaks that can change a game. I've got to think that Groce will bring that aspect back to our game as he develops our team.
Another improvement that I believe Groce will bring to our game is he will vary our defenses. We may even be able to play a zone defense capably for short tactical situations when advantageous. And what about a tactical press occasionally.
I think that intense defense was a trait of Groce's Ohio team. That is where Groce will be using more of our roster. I'm betting that he will be subbing players in and out constantly to keep the pressure on.
This is going to be fun watching how Groce gets the most out of our guys.
A simplified aggressive offense. An aggressive tactical defense. A more fully utilized roster. Some improvement in players fundamental skills.
I think that spells we win more and lose less. That will be enough to get us on top of that bubble. What do ya say?

[JimmyChitwood]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

I'm seeing the same thing on many different threads, when it comes to Weber many Illini fans have their judgement impaired by the Halo Effect (sometimes called the devil effect when negatively applied).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

Bruce Weber lost too many basketball games, so fans rightly have a negative perception of his performance as a coach. However, there is strong psychological tendency to perceive everything about Weber and his coaching as wrong or flawed because we are so disappointed with the number of losses. His voice, his mannerisms, his sideline comportment, his practices, his player substitution patterns, etc... And yet, this same coach won led one of the best teams we have ever had at Illinois in 2005 (while yelling from the sidelines, employing the motion offense, eschewing zone defenses, and playing a very short rotation.) Logically, it is probably far more likely that he did somethings right and somethings wrong as a coach. He has strengths and weaknesses as do most coaches. And there is more than one way to be successful.

If the critics are right and everything about Weber's coaching was deeply flawed, then we should see a dramatically better team this year. Yes, we lost Meyers Leonard but all of those top-100 freshmen will be sophomores. If Weber was really such a bad coach, then we should be competing for a top-3 finish in the league this year now that we have a good coach.

Personally, I doubt that happens. I think that for all of Weber's flaws as a coach his really glaring flaw was an inability to evaluate and acquire top high school talent. His second biggest flaw was a tendency to dwell too much on the negative, and let negative energy build up in the program. After that, everything else fits into the "small potatoes" or "different strokes for different folks" categories. A more positive attitude will probably help some, but it won't fix the PG problem.

Yes, but his biggest flaws were flaws that a coach can not have at this level. He had quite a few more then the 2 you mentioned, but those 2 are certainly near the top of the list. I think his biggest flaw was and still is his stubborness/It's never my fault mentality. I dont expect to see Groce display these flaws and if he does we are in trouble.

[PeoriaIllini1]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

I'm seeing the same thing on many different threads, when it comes to Weber many Illini fans have their judgement impaired by the Halo Effect (sometimes called the devil effect when negatively applied).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

Bruce Weber lost too many basketball games, so fans rightly have a negative perception of his performance as a coach. However, there is strong psychological tendency to perceive everything about Weber and his coaching as wrong or flawed because we are so disappointed with the number of losses. His voice, his mannerisms, his sideline comportment, his practices, his player substitution patterns, etc... And yet, this same coach won led one of the best teams we have ever had at Illinois in 2005 (while yelling from the sidelines, employing the motion offense, eschewing zone defenses, and playing a very short rotation.) Logically, it is probably far more likely that he did somethings right and somethings wrong as a coach. He has strengths and weaknesses as do most coaches. And there is more than one way to be successful.

If the critics are right and everything about Weber's coaching was deeply flawed, then we should see a dramatically better team this year. Yes, we lost Meyers Leonard but all of those top-100 freshmen will be sophomores. If Weber was really such a bad coach, then we should be competing for a top-3 finish in the league this year now that we have a good coach.

Personally, I doubt that happens. I think that for all of Weber's flaws as a coach his really glaring flaw was an inability to evaluate and acquire top high school talent. His second biggest flaw was a tendency to dwell too much on the negative, and let negative energy build up in the program. After that, everything else fits into the "small potatoes" or "different strokes for different folks" categories. A more positive attitude will probably help some, but it won't fix the PG problem.

GHD, you dont really think that 3 top 100 upcoming sophomores recruited for just one season is enough to be in the top 3 teams in the top league in the nation in 2012-13. Honestly, we didnt get Brandon Dawson, we have only one that was in the top 50 MH! I dont know but i bet Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St, all will have freshman and sophomores that were ranked in the top 20 or 30 in there classes not just top 100.. Cody Zeller Brandon Dawson, Kevin Ferrell, Jeremy Howell, Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McCrary, Gary Harris, La Quiton Ross, Sam Thompson, Sam Dekker, ? That is not counting Burke from Michigan who we all missed on. To underestimate Meyers leaving is just silly. He was the top player in the big ten last year if you ask the NBA GMs. I usually agree with you but you are way off on this analogy. We only had one guy ranked in the top 50 by rivals and that is M Henry for either 2011 or 2012.....all of those listed are ranked 50 or above and are on more talented teams thanks in large part to Bruce's in ability to win or market our program.

[PeoriaIllini1]

Originally Posted by JimmyChitwood

Yes, but his biggest flaws were flaws that a coach can not have at this level. He had quite a few more then the 2 you mentioned, but those 2 are certainly near the top of the list. I think his biggest flaw was and still is his stubborness/It's never my fault mentality. I dont expect to see Groce display these flaws and if he does we are in trouble.

Among his top flaws were he didnt play his best players or develop his most talented when he should have. Plus he didnt bench players that made bonehead errors. I love big Tis but Meyers was better from day one on campus and should have played against lesser teams from day one to develop. J. Richmond was disgruntled but probably should have played too they were our most talented players. In 2004 he started Rich Mcbride and Nick Smith with the players on the bench from the 2005 team. He only played JB last year when Sam went down for god sake .... He loves Jrs and Srs over talent and doesnt prepare them going into big ten play so he can trust them . If MH or JB is better than DJ i bet Groce plays them this year with Groce playing time will be earned not given going forward i hope

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by PeoriaIllini1

GHD, you dont really think that 3 top 100 upcoming sophomores recruited for just one season is enough to be in the top 3 teams in the top league in the nation in 2012-13. Honestly, we didnt get Brandon Dawson, we have only one that was in the top 50 MH! I dont know but i bet Indiana, Michigan, Michigan St, all will have freshman and sophomores that were ranked in the top 20 or 30 in there classes not just top 100.. Cody Zeller Brandon Dawson, Kevin Ferrell, Jeremy Howell, Glenn Robinson III, Mitch McCrary, Gary Harris, La Quiton Ross, Sam Thompson, Sam Dekker, ? That is not counting Burke from Michigan who we all missed on. To underestimate Meyers leaving is just silly. He was the top player in the big ten last year if you ask the NBA GMs. I usually agree with you but you are way off on this analogy. We only had one guy ranked in the top 50 by rivals and that is M Henry for either 2011 or 2012.....all of those listed are ranked 50 or above and are on more talented teams thanks in large part to Bruce's in ability to win or market our program.

Top 100 RSCI players on our 2012-13 team: Paul (SR), Richardson (SR), Abrams (SO), Shaw (SO), Egwu (SO), and Henry (SO). Tyler Griffey (SR) made the summer RSCI top-100 but fell just out of the top-100 in the final ranking.

The only three teams with more talent (based upon high school rankings) would be IU, MSU and OSU. Much of the IU talent is very young. No, I don't think we are in any way a top-3 team, but based upon a combination of experience and high school rankings we should be in that mix. We won't be in that mix because our team isn't actually that talented and is missing key elements. Weber did a very poor job of evaluation and filling needs.

My argument is that we won't see substantially better results with Groce until he can recruit his players to Illinois. Somewhat better? Perhaps. But there is no way that DJ Richardson was the 35th best player in the 2009 class and no amount of coaching will change that fact.

Originally Posted by PeoriaIllini1

Among his top flaws were he didnt play his best players or develop his most talented when he should have. Plus he didnt bench players that made bonehead errors. I love big Tis but Meyers was better from day one on campus and should have played against lesser teams from day one to develop. J. Richmond was disgruntled but probably should have played too they were our most talented players. In 2004 he started Rich Mcbride and Nick Smith with the players on the bench from the 2005 team. He only played JB last year when Sam went down for god sake .... He loves Jrs and Srs over talent and doesnt prepare them going into big ten play so he can trust them . If MH or JB is better than DJ i bet Groce plays them this year with Groce playing time will be earned not given going forward i hope

So you are in the camp that believes we should be dramatically better this year, right? There is no point refuting the nonsense that has been refuted so many times already. Clearly Weber was a horrible coach in your eyes, and did just about everything wrong. So we should be way better this year with a new coach at the helm, right?

[IntenselyOrange]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

The motion is the opposite of regimented, and contrary to public perception Weber did not micromanage. In fact, he probably didn't manage enough, particularly with regard to his assistants.

All the reports we've been getting from Groce's practices pretty much confirm what we saw last year under Weber with regard to these players' skills. Groce would have loved to land a 5th year transfer PG comparable to Maniscalco, but none were on the market this year. I would expect substantial improvement in PG skills from TA because point guards usually need a year to adjust to this level. I'm not expecting a big improvement in ball handling or passing skills from JB, DJ or BP.

I side with HoC regarding the restrictiveness of the motion. I guess we'll never know what the cause and consequence was however.

Don't get me wrong though. I think Groce would prefer better guards, and I by no means think what we have is great. I simply think they might be better than you give them credit for. Some of your posts sound like you think these guys should be playing for Chicago State.

I expect them to be a bit below average in the Big Ten this year, but still significantly improved from last season.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange

Don't get me wrong though. I think Groce would prefer better guards, and I by no means think what we have is great. I simply think they might be better than you give them credit for. Some of your posts sound like you think these guys should be playing for Chicago State.

I expect them to be a bit below average in the Big Ten this year, but still significantly improved from last season.

Individually, our guards are a bit below average. In aggregate, we have glaring weaknesses on the perimeter. Of the four guards who will get most of the playing time (BP, TA, DJ, JB): (a) There isn't one pure outside shooter, and two are not threats from the arc; (b) Passing and ball-handling skills are notably lacking. Surround Brandon Paul with a couple of more complete perimeter players and his combination of size and athleticism would be very valuable. If Abrams was playing with a couple of dynamic scoring wings who could help out with ball handling, he could be a very good role player. But for some reason, Weber recruited a bunch of guys who are relatively big (even Abrams is physically strong), somewhat athletic, but not terribly skilled. This is a problem.

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Personally, I doubt that happens. I think that for all of Weber's flaws as a coach his really glaring flaw was an inability to evaluate and acquire top high school talent.

To be specific, his lack of ability to recruit PGs, which is astounding given what he had to sell (Dee, Deron, Luther). He seemed to think he could teach and guard to play the position instead of recruiting kids that already had those abilities.

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by Illiniwek06

Agreed. 17-15 overall, 6-12 in B1G play this past season. Subtract a lottery pick. B1G will be, by far, the most competitive conference in the nation. You do the math. I just don't see immediate success. Of course, I hope I'm wrong with my assessment.

Agree BIG will be loaded.
Agree ML will be a significant loss.

However, pretty much everyone loses at least 25%+ of their team each year, and we were clearly a tale of two seasons last year: a lot of success, followed by an epic collapse.

No idea what you consider "immediate success", but I'd like to think we can be .500 in conference and dancing. Sadly, that's an improvement from last year.

[PeoriaIllini1]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Top 100 RSCI players on our 2012-13 team: Paul (SR), Richardson (SR), Abrams (SO), Shaw (SO), Egwu (SO), and Henry (SO). Tyler Griffey (SR) made the summer RSCI top-100 but fell just out of the top-100 in the final ranking.

The only three teams with more talent (based upon high school rankings) would be IU, MSU and OSU. Much of the IU talent is very young. No, I don't think we are in any way a top-3 team, but based upon a combination of experience and high school rankings we should be in that mix. We won't be in that mix because our team isn't actually that talented and is missing key elements. Weber did a very poor job of evaluation and filling needs.

My argument is that we won't see substantially better results with Groce until he can recruit his players to Illinois. Somewhat better? Perhaps. But there is no way that DJ Richardson was the 35th best player in the 2009 class and no amount of coaching will change that fact.



So you are in the camp that believes we should be dramatically better this year, right? There is no point refuting the nonsense that has been refuted so many times already. Clearly Weber was a horrible coach in your eyes, and did just about everything wrong. So we should be way better this year with a new coach at the helm, right?

Yes eventually! Thank god.

The fact is though our roster does not have any top 20 or even top 30 guys like the top teams have signed so i think being in the top three is unrealistic. We have some good core players but no obvious NBA level talent on our roster now in my opinion like Indiana, Michigan St, Michigan, and Ohio St.

There is a big difference between top 30 and just barely being in the top 100. Egwu vs Zeller?

I think you overlooked Michigan's talent level. They have a top 2012 class to go with returning star players. Robinson III amd McGary should be good. i wish we had them!

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by WesterveltVictoryCigar

To be specific, his lack of ability to recruit PGs, which is astounding given what he had to sell (Dee, Deron, Luther). He seemed to think he could teach and guard to play the position instead of recruiting kids that already had those abilities.

The fact that BW recruited DJ as a CG who would play some PG as a frosh behind DMAC and even thought he could challenge DMAC for starting mins at PG speaks volumes. That and auditioning JB at PG in addition to recruiting a CG in TA to be our starting PG after DMAC left.

[PeoriaIllini1]

Originally Posted by Calvin

Agree BIG will be loaded.
Agree ML will be a significant loss.

However, pretty much everyone loses at least 25%+ of their team each year, and we were clearly a tale of two seasons last year: a lot of success, followed by an epic collapse.

No idea what you consider "immediate success", but I'd like to think we can be .500 in conference and dancing. Sadly, that's an improvement from last year.

Not every team loses a lottery pick.

I hope we over achieve.

[Greensboro]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

The fact that BW recruited DJ as a CG who would play some PG as a frosh behind DMAC and even thought he could challenge DMAC for starting mins at PG speaks volumes. That and auditioning JB at PG in addition to recruiting a CG in TA to be our starting PG after DMAC left.

I'm not sure it was so much evaluation errors as just bad recruiting/limited options. I think recruiting Chasson Randle so hard was probably an indication by the staff that we knew we needed another pg.

I don't remember, but would guess guys like Bruce Douglass, Bardo, Small, Harper probably weren't point guards in HS, thinking DJ or BP couldn't develop into an adequate backup PG probably wasn't unrealistic, but hasn't worked. I think our bad recruiting for the years prior to 2009 class may have made everyone a bit jaded/short sighted on the ability to find a servicable pg in 3 top 100 guards. But we didn't have a PG (any guard) in 2008 or 2010 ( no guard left) either, which made it critical for someone in 2009 class to play some point.

Auditioning JB at the point, talk of Richmond at the point I think were more signs of desperation than Weber thinking they were answers at PG or that they could coach someone into a PG.