2012 Watch Lists

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Because the football threads are so full of activity this time of year? Gimme a break. We are talking about whether Hawthorne was mistakenly left off the Thorpe list and whether he is assuredly the best CB in the B1G and potentially the best CB in the country. Sounds relevant to me.

Sure - turning yet another thread into a bashing of ThaKid's prior posts is relevant to the 2012 Watch List topic. Gimme a break. :rolleyes:

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Sure - turning yet another thread into a bashing of ThaKid's prior posts is relevant to the 2012 Watch List topic. Gimme a break. :rolleyes:

ThaKid made an assertion that Hawthorne was mistakenly left off 2012 watch lists based entirely upon his personal evaluation skills. It is completely relevant to analyze those evaluation skills.

Consider yourself broken.

[illinidarrin]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Hawthorne's hands have kept him from being the punt return guy for the past couple of years. He doesn't have hands of stone, but not great hands either. You are delusional if you think Green was going to be a real good RB. Zero instincts for that position which is why everyone but Zook wanted him as a DB (including Kentucky when he thought of transferring after his freshman year).

It's a ridiculous statement to make that Green wouldn't be a good RB because he's only played RB for for a few snaps in his career at Illinois. BTW, that was against the Cinci bearcats and he did pretty well against a good team.

[illinidarrin]

Also, we will see how bad TH hands are this year when he does get some time at WR. You are basing your opinion on kick returns?

[illinidarrin]

Originally Posted by illinidarrin

It's a ridiculous statement to make that Green wouldn't be a good RB because he's only played RB for for a few snaps in his career at Illinois. BTW, that was against the Cinci bearcats and he did pretty well against a good team.

Just looked it up and green had 19 carries for 88 yards and 2 TD's 4.6 average. I would say thats not horrible by any means.

[ThaKid101]

Its not at all. Green made an impact in his limited touches including a long TD run. Seeing him type Hawthorne moved because he didn't have hands is by far one of the most uninformed things I've read on here. Hawthorne has GREAT hands. Fielding the punts has never been a problem. Fumbling from time to time has been (As evidenced in the bowl game). I would still put the ball in his hands every time though and I'm glad Beckman is. He's going to return 2 or more TD's this year at PR. And just FWIW, if he stayed at WR he probably wouldn't even be here right now (He could've left this past year at CB too which speaks volumes on the type of athlete he is). They're both going in the top 2 rounds this year, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if Green sneaks into the 1st. Like I said he has already looked extremely foolish to this point. This year and beyond will only make him look more stupid.

[ThaKid101]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

I think the point is that if, say Hawthorne and Green, were as good as he said they were at the positions he listed them at then they wouldn't have been moved.

I mean, look, I don't necessarily like it when people jump on Kid either but at times his stuff gets a little ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous at all. The ONLY reason they moved is because the Illini needed help on defense. Combine that with the fact that Zook loves to put his best athletes on defense and you have two converted offensive players. It wasn't a bad move at all though, because both are going to make a lot of money for a long time barring injury.

[ThaKid101]

Originally Posted by afsocker

Depends on your definition of at or near the best. Let's take just top 5-7...

QB - no
RB - probably yes with Shard
WR - not likely
TE - nope
OL - probably not (or if you want to break it down to OT, OG, OC still probably not)
DE - not likely
DT - Actually yes, very possible with Liuget
OLB - nope
MLB - nope
CB - possibly, but not likely
S - nope
P - maybe with Weatherford
K - probably not

That's not to say there aren't good Illini in the NFL, but they are not at or near the top at more than maybe 3 positions at best right now.

That said, there are definitely guys like Brown and Pocic that should be among the favorites for some awards at this point.

First off Mendenhall and Vontae Davis are already top 5-7 players at their position. If Pittsburgh would've gotten an OL from the jump (And not now like they're starting to) and not try to be the Saints, Mendenhall would be in discussion for #1. If he comes back healthy and they run the ball, he will be. If not, he's going to go somewhere else and be a superstar. I already mentioned Vontae, and he's only getting better every year. I expect this year to be no different other than he might actually take his game to another level. He's definitely near the top. Liuget showed big time flashes last year and is going to be a FORCE this year.

You then have guys who have the potential to be (Hence why I am projecting them) like Asamoah, Benn, Wilson, Brent, etc. etc. They're not at or near the top now, but they will be. That is what I was saying. Wilson is on the list of Illini who are OR will be at the top (Or near the top) of their position. With Allen, Mercilus, Jenkins and Wilson coming in the potential only goes up. And don't get me started on Micheal Buchanan (Next Jason Taylor), Jonathan Brown, etc.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by illinidarrin

Just looked it up and green had 19 carries for 88 yards and 2 TD's 4.6 average. I would say thats not horrible by any means.

Justin Green looked great as long as they could point him in one direction and say "run fast!" He couldn't make a sharp cut and didn't have the vision to be a B1G back. He was moved to defense because he was the No. 4 RB in 2009 (behind LeShoure, Ford, and Dufrene), and would have been No. 5 if Pollard was completely healthy. This was the year before LeShoure blew up and we were really searching for a RB early in the season. Green's big game came against FCS Illinois State, when he ran for 56 yards on 7 carries for 8.0 YPC. On the season he had 19 carries for 88 yards, which means Green ran for 32 yards on 12 carries (2.7 YPC) against FBS opponents. Yes, that is pretty bad.

Green was a freshman but good RB very often carry the ball as freshmen. There was a reason that even Kentucky wouldn't offer Green a scholarship at RB. I think the plan all along was to let Green try RB, then move him to CB when that didn't work out. He wouldn't have signed with Illinois if we didn't promise him a shot at RB. From the day he signed I figured Green would end up at CB, and my only surprise is that he hasn't yet become a star at that position.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by ThaKid101

First off Mendenhall and Vontae Davis are already top 5-7 players at their position.

There were 7 CB named to the most recent pro bowl teams (starters, reserves and an alternate). Vontae wasn't on the list. Let me guess, the NFL is biased against players from Illinois?:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by ThaKid101

You then have guys who have the potential to be (Hence why I am projecting them) like Asamoah, Benn, Wilson, Brent, etc. etc. They're not at or near the top now, but they will be. That is what I was saying. Wilson is on the list of Illini who are OR will be at the top (Or near the top) of their position. With Allen, Mercilus, Jenkins and Wilson coming in the potential only goes up. And don't get me started on Micheal Buchanan (Next Jason Taylor), Jonathan Brown, etc.

Dang, you make it almost impossible for someone to parody ThaKid because you do such a good job yourself. :laugh:

[Dan]

Buchanan Named to Hendricks Award Watch List

University of Illinois senior defensive end Michael Buchanan was named to the preseason watch list for the 2012 Ted Hendricks Award on Monday. The award is presented annually to the nation's top defensive end and the watch list marks the fourth that Buchanan has appeared on, along with the Nagurski Trophy, Bednarik Award and Rotary Lombardi Award. Last year, Illinois junior Whitney Mercilus took home the honor as the nation's top defensive end after leading the nation with 16 sacks.

http://www.fightingillini.com/sports...073012aac.html

[Dan]

Terry Hawthorne, Tommy Davis Named to Hornung Watch List

University of Illinois seniors Tommy Davis and Terry Hawthorne were named to the watch list for the Paul Hornung Award, the Louisville Sports Commission announced Thursday. The award, now in its third season, is given to the most versatile player in major college football. Illinois is one of four schools with two or more players selected to the watch list, along with USC (three), Mississippi State (two) and Oregon (two).

http://www.fightingillini.com/sports...080212aaa.html