2012 Illini Hoops Summer Workouts

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by WesterveltVictoryCigar

Klee mentioned a couple of weeks back that it's still a problem.

Klee did mention that it's been an ongoing problem the last few weeks, but don't forget that BP has been out of the line up. He will likely play the PG roll when TA needs a break. He's by far the best option since DJ, Bert, Langford, and even MLT have struggled playing PG.

[Foo G]

We just need a backup PG for 2-3 minutes 2 times during each half.
Considering that half of that time will be spent on D, I think we'll be OK with the fill ins that we have, as long as we can avoid foul trouble and injury.
The biggest need for more and better ball-handling will be evident when we want to push the tempo and attack the basket in the halfcourt.
If TA has to be the guy to go get the ball every time in order to get it up the court, the defense will have enough time to get back and set up.
It takes multiple options that can dribble and pass in order to play the type of style that we're all wanting to see.
As much as improved ball handling has emphasized this off-season, I'm hoping we'll also see a big advancement in passing.

[justsomedude]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

Klee did mention that it's been an ongoing problem the last few weeks, but don't forget that BP has been out of the line up. He will likely play the PG roll when TA needs a break. He's by far the best option since DJ, Bert, Langford, and even MLT have struggled playing PG.

Klee also mentioned last week the players were getting more confidence, and not throwing it all over the gym as much.

[ctblaisdell83]

http://www.illinihq.com/chats/2012-0...ball-chat.html

Very interesting info from Klee in an answer to a BP3 question.

"But the Illini did get a good look at the team without its best player. This hasn’t been said before, but Rayvonte Rice is one of your top 2 or 3 players, at the least. There were many days when Rayvonte Rice was your most complete player. He's got a knack for scoring. The key for Rice - and it's a big key - will be staying cut-in and motivated during a season in which he’s not playing. Klee"

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by ctblaisdell83

http://www.illinihq.com/chats/2012-0...ball-chat.html

Very interesting info from Klee in an answer to a BP3 question.

"But the Illini did get a good look at the team without its best player. This hasn’t been said before, but Rayvonte Rice is one of your top 2 or 3 players, at the least. There were many days when Rayvonte Rice was your most complete player. He's got a knack for scoring. The key for Rice - and it's a big key - will be staying cut-in and motivated during a season in which he’s not playing. Klee"

And a couple of years ago Alex Legion was the best player over the summer. Klee wanted Richmond to be a team captain after watching him play in scrimmages the summer before his freshman year. Don't get me wrong, I like the addition of Rice to this team, but I cannot get excited by summer reports.

[Railsplitter]

ive been saying it for years and agree totally

[cwmorga]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

And a couple of years ago Alex Legion was the best player over the summer. Klee wanted Richmond to be a team captain after watching him play in scrimmages the summer before his freshman year. Don't get me wrong, I like the addition of Rice to this team, but I cannot get excited by summer reports.

The difference is that Rice has already proven he can play college basketball, and play it well. The MVC is not the B1G, but it's still serious D1 ball. I can't help but be excited.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

And a couple of years ago Alex Legion was the best player over the summer. Klee wanted Richmond to be a team captain after watching him play in scrimmages the summer before his freshman year. Don't get me wrong, I like the addition of Rice to this team, but I cannot get excited by summer reports.

+1

[combes]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

And a couple of years ago Alex Legion was the best player over the summer. Klee wanted Richmond to be a team captain after watching him play in scrimmages the summer before his freshman year. Don't get me wrong, I like the addition of Rice to this team, but I cannot get excited by summer reports.

None of those guys came in with the track record that Rice has. 17 a game as a sophomore in a pretty good D-1 league gives the summer reports more credibility.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by combes

None of those guys came in with the track record that Rice has. 17 a game as a sophomore in a pretty good D-1 league gives the summer reports more credibility.

Rice's past D1 performance gives credibility to the idea that he can be a good player for Illinois. Summer reports add nothing to what we already knew.

[Railsplitter]

Not only the fact that he looks to be the second or third best player on the team, but you have to consider who he's scrimmaging against. And can he do it against another teams starting players. jmo

[justsomedude]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

And a couple of years ago Alex Legion was the best player over the summer. Klee wanted Richmond to be a team captain after watching him play in scrimmages the summer before his freshman year. Don't get me wrong, I like the addition of Rice to this team, but I cannot get excited by summer reports.

Fair, but why even read the summer workout thread?

Is it simply to tell people it doesn't matter?

[justsomedude]

Originally Posted by Railsplitter

Not only the fact that he looks to be the second or third best player on the team, but you have to consider who he's scrimmaging against. And can he do it against another teams starting players. jmo

He's doin it against the same players that he's being judged agains. To say he's second or third best may not be a positive, but it's what is being observed.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by justsomedude

Fair, but why even read the summer workout thread?

Is it simply to tell people it doesn't matter?

I generally haven't followed this thread closely. When I do check, it is to see if there is any news about position changes, injuries, etc...

[Serious Late]

Originally Posted by justsomedude

Fair, but why even read the summer workout thread?

Is it simply to tell people it doesn't matter?

I read the thread because it is, for the most part, interesting. That doesn't mean I don't take everything I read in this thread with a grain of salt. This is probably the fourth year I have closely followed offseason discussion on here, and this is the fourth year that the news we have heard has been almost exclusively positive.

It doesn't surprise me though. Outside of extremely dysfunctional teams, who spends the offseason not trying to improve or work on their game? And even if they aren't working on their game, what insider is actively trying to go out and feed the media stories of laziness and lack of effort?

It would appear pretty universal that most programs off seasons are filled with fluff and good vibes. Does it translate in season? Sometimes. Does anything coming out right now to provide context in terms of improvement RELATIVE to other programs? Not really.

It's fun to read, but it isn't all that useful. Right now, particularly in Illinois' situation, things are pretty much wait and see. Hard to know if Groce will be a massive success or a complete failure based on the information available. The fact that he is energetic and brings a new message for the Illini doesn't sell me on how well the Illini will be in 2-3 years.

I am definitely hopeful, and I am excited that if nothing else, we are talking about a "new hope". However, its all pretty much fluff until we see how Groce performs, and if faced with adversity, how he handles it.

[IlliniRunIn07]

Originally Posted by Serious Late

I read the thread because it is, for the most part, interesting. That doesn't mean I don't take everything I read in this thread with a grain of salt. This is probably the fourth year I have closely followed offseason discussion on here, and this is the fourth year that the news we have heard has been almost exclusively positive.

It doesn't surprise me though. Outside of extremely dysfunctional teams, who spends the offseason not trying to improve or work on their game? And even if they aren't working on their game, what insider is actively trying to go out and feed the media stories of laziness and lack of effort?

It would appear pretty universal that most programs off seasons are filled with fluff and good vibes. Does it translate in season? Sometimes. Does anything coming out right now to provide context in terms of improvement RELATIVE to other programs? Not really.

It's fun to read, but it isn't all that useful. Right now, particularly in Illinois' situation, things are pretty much wait and see. Hard to know if Groce will be a massive success or a complete failure based on the information available. The fact that he is energetic and brings a new message for the Illini doesn't sell me on how well the Illini will be in 2-3 years.

I am definitely hopeful, and I am excited that if nothing else, we are talking about a "new hope". However, its all pretty much fluff until we see how Groce performs, and if faced with adversity, how he handles it.

+1. I read this thread because there's really only this thread and recruiting that are of any importance this time of year. This has also been the most eventful offseason since I started following this board. Not only with the coaching change, but then throw in the Isaac Chew incident, the recruiting ground we've made up out of nowhere on a few different players, our returning best player suffering a significant injury, already a couple transfers, and a lot of inexperience on the team that will be asked to play a bigger role next season...or at least likely asked to play a bigger role.

No one should have to justify why they read any thread on here. This board is filled with good information in just about every thread, and this one is no different. I definitely can't wait until we can start talking about the upcoming season a little bit more closely though.

[justsomedude]

s

Originally Posted by IlliniRunIn07

+1. I read this thread because there's really only this thread and recruiting that are of any importance this time of year. This has also been the most eventful offseason since I started following this board. Not only with the coaching change, but then throw in the Isaac Chew incident, the recruiting ground we've made up out of nowhere on a few different players, our returning best player suffering a significant injury, already a couple transfers, and a lot of inexperience on the team that will be asked to play a bigger role next season...or at least likely asked to play a bigger role.

No one should have to justify why they read any thread on here. This board is filled with good information in just about every thread, and this one is no different. I definitely can't wait until we can start talking about the upcoming season a little bit more closely though.

Absolutely no one needs to justify it. I happen to agree that you should take summer reports for what they are, reports of how guys do in pick-up games, and that it doesn't mean it will translate.

I think Rice showing himself as one of the 2 - 3 best players in summer (while BP is out) is about what I'd expect, and it's not necessarily a great thing. I would be happier if it was reported a few of our sophomores who should have higher upside are preforming well.

I just find it odd when people follow summer recruiting but say the only thing that matters is commitments and follow summer workouts but say the only thing that matters are games. Deep down, we all know that's true, but yet we still follow.

[Botb9]

Summer workouts create nice intrigue, but like one great philosopher once said, "We talkin' 'bout practice!"

[UIUC2008]

Originally Posted by Botb9

Summer workouts create nice intrigue, but like one great philosopher once said, "We talkin' 'bout practice!"

Not only is this one of the funniest lines in sports history, it's also one of the truest.

[Foo G]

It's nice to know that certain issues (ballhandling, for instance) have been acknowledged and are being addressed.
With this team being as young and inexperienced as it is, playing together and competing is crucial.
It's a great chance to rebuild positive energies, attitudes, and expectations, for players, coaches, and fans.

[jhayton]

I remain a skeptic when it comes to seeing results.

We were told last summer that ballhandling and passing were being addressed (and for about the 5th year in a row) we were going to have a deeper rotation.

Knowing that Groce uses a deeper rotation for his system alleviates my fears on that front, but ballhandling and passing will remain a concern until we see improvement during the B1G season.

Foo G, I agree that it's a great chance to change the energy, attitudes and expectations of the players, but it is imperative that he gets that accomplished. If he doesn't then our team will not improve from last year and he will be behind the 8 ball with recruits once again. It is a vicious cycle, but I have faith he can turn that around.

[bleedsorangenblue]

Originally Posted by justsomedude

s

I think Rice showing himself as one of the 2 - 3 best players in summer (while BP is out) is about what I'd expect, and it's not necessarily a great thing. I would be happier if it was reported a few of our sophomores who should have higher upside are preforming well.

Agree completely. Where are our break out players going to come from this year? If they are not showing it in practice, how can we expect it once the season starts? I am cautiously optimistic. We have heard a few good things about a couple veteran players but no glowing reports.

[TheSecretWeapon]

Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue

Agree completely. Where are our break out players going to come from this year? If they are not showing it in practice, how can we expect it once the season starts? I am cautiously optimistic. We have heard a few good things about a couple veteran players but no glowing reports.

an extremely optimistic view would be that we have so much talented depth that not many players are being outplayed in practice

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue

Agree completely. Where are our break out players going to come from this year? If they are not showing it in practice, how can we expect it once the season starts? I am cautiously optimistic. We have heard a few good things about a couple veteran players but no glowing reports.

My cousin's insider friend recently got a new job at another university , but I asked for a quick summary of his observations of the players this summer. He saw bits and pieces of roughly a dozen or so workouts and pickup games in May, June and July. Here are some of his observations concerning several of the players.

BP: Saw very little of him due to the injury.

RR: Has looked good. Outside shot isn't pretty, but he scores a lot off drives, even postups. Quicker than you'd think a 6-3, 240-pound guy could be. Has lost a bit of weight, too. Tough, tough defender. Physical offensive player. Has a bit of a nasty streak on the court. Would not have fit BW's system offensively at all, though his toughness would have been nice to have. Not a "pretty" scorer but a guy who does his scoring in the mid-range and the paint. Looks like one of those muscular 3s that MSU has deployed here and there over the years. Would have fit nicely at PU, too. Guys seem to like him unless they're guarding him or being guarded by him. He brings good intensity to pickup games. When he, TA and NE are on the same team, they almost always win.

DJ: Outside shot looks pretty good. He's still almost exclusively a 3-point specialist offensively but has shown more willingness to shot or head fake and put the ball on the deck for a mid-range shot.

TA: work in progress. Outside shot is still too flat but looks better. Working on driving and kicking out and dishing. Needs more work on it but getting better at creating angles to drive past defenders. Defensively he gets after it but needs to improve at creating steals. Insider has never liked his game at PG -- thinks he lacks PG instincts -- but thinks he'll be serviceable this season.

TG: probably the most improved player this summer. Jump shot looks great. Coaches frequently tell him and DJ to let 'er fly from the arc off kickouts. More aggressive going for boards and shooting in the paint. Just seems to have a new bounce in his step that was missing his first 3 years. Looks stronger, too, especially in the arms and shoulders. Best outside shot on the team.

NE: tireless worker. Far from polished offensively but working feverishly on his low-post game with DF. Takes pickup games more seriously than anyone else. He and TA are natural competitors. Has worked some on his pick and pop, too. Can hit shots out to about 15 feet in pickup games. Likes the baseline short corner jumper.

MyH: missed a few weeks in the summer. Jump shot is sweet in drills. Hard to pinpoint his position. Not great off the dribble. Tweener size wise. If he had NE's fire and motor, he'd start and be a double-digit scorer. But he doesn't. Laid back, which gets under JG's skin. JG is anything but laid back. Sometimes scores at will in pickup games. Other times just hangs out behind the arc and goes through the motions. Not a "gotta win every game" player. Lacks an edge. Should be a rotation player, though. Need outside threats like him for JG's offense to create space for attacking the rim.

JB: the most fun player to watch in pickup games. Loves running the floor and finishes with lots of high-flying dunks. A couple of his dunks were NBA spectacular in July. Outside shot is off and on. Left hand is getting better thanks to JW. He loves Coach Walker. Biggest question is how he'll do driving against 2s and 3s after being guarded by a lot of 4s last season. Prediction: he'll be sixth man and play 25 mpg.

SML: not very polished but loves to mix it up. Watching him and NE battle around the hoop is fun. They just pound on each other sometimes. B1G-ready body. Rebounding, defense and putbacks will be his M.O. Good personality, too. Adds some fun to the roster.

MS: insider doesn't like his game. Tweener. No specialty area. Has worked fairly hard but what's his position or role? Doesn't stand out in pickup games. TG and SML seem quite a ways ahead of him.

DL: insider said the kid makes MyH look like Tyler Hansbrough intensity wise. Nice kid, quiet, has a range of decent skills but no one specialty. Another tweener. Not a great athlete but pretty good. Doesn't fit JG's system right now as a 3 or a 4. If he played with more passion/aggression, he could see minutes, but getting him to play faster and more intensely is a challenge for the coaches. Kind of kid you want to see succeed and for the light bulb to go on for him. So far it hasn't save for moments here and there like running a fast break or hitting a few mid-range Js in a row where you think he could excel.

MLT: really, really small and slight. Beautiful shooting stroke. If UI had a PG who commanded a ton of defensive attention, he could be a nice 3-point specialist off the bench in a year or 2 after locking him in the weight room for hours on end. Gets overpowered in scrimmages. Can't keep TA or even DJ in front of him consistently and doesn't get by anyone offensively. But sweet shot for sure. Saw him beat DJ in a game of HORSE burying 30-footer after 30-footer.

ID: tireless worker. Fights guys in the post defensively. Everybody loves him. Very raw, though, and not a quick leaper. Hard to see him playing much behind NE and SML, and his lack of a postup game hurts him with JG's preferred system.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

My cousin's insider friend recently got a new job at another university , but I asked for a quick summary of his observations of the players this summer. He saw bits and pieces of roughly a dozen or so workouts and pickup games in May, June and July. Here are some of his observations concerning several of the players.

Terrific summary. Just about everything he said matches what we saw last year except for Tyler Griffey who seems to have found new life with the change in coaches. My biggest concern remains Abrams at PG because he just isn't the sort of PG Groce needs to run his system. We probably aren't going to see a compromise version of Groce's system this season. Recruiting will be the key to getting the program heading in the right direction.