Politics

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by ryls

One positive for anyone with an open mind would be watching the debate between between Ryan and Biden, Ryan would embarrass Biden in the debate.

This is my new favorite Republican hobbyhorse. The "if we pick our token smart guy, he will EMBARRASS the Democrat in a debate"

First of all, no one watches the VP debate. But more importantly than that, no one gets embarrassed in a debate. Sarah Palin didn't get embarrassed for goodness sakes. At the very worst, and I mean Dan Quayle/Mike Dukakis worst, a debate is a mildly disappointing split decision.

[ryls]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

This is my new favorite Republican hobbyhorse. The "if we pick our token smart guy, he will EMBARRASS the Democrat in a debate"

First of all, no one watches the VP debate. But more importantly than that, no one gets embarrassed in a debate. Sarah Palin didn't get embarrassed for goodness sakes. At the very worst, and I mean Dan Quayle/Mike Dukakis worst, a debate is a mildly disappointing split decision.

If you have ever heard Ryan speak he understands the budget probably as well as anyone, Democrats should atleast show us there plan if they don't like Ryan's so we can look at it. I think at 17 trillion in debt anyone should agree we need to do something and as Simpson-Bowles says anyone wanting to talk about deficit reduction who won't fix entitlements is not serious about deficit reduction and I do realize not many people will watch the Vice Presidential debate.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by ryls

If you have ever heard Ryan speak he understands the budget probably as well as anyone, Biden I have no idea what he understands. Democrats should atleast have a plan if they don't like Ryan's so we can look at it.

They should, but it's not so difficult to cobble together.

Maybe this will make a more substantive turn in the campaign, which would be nice, but I've got news for ya, Republicans aren't going to like the results of this debate any more than the previous one.

[ryls]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

They should, but it's not so difficult to cobble together.

Maybe this will make a more substantive turn in the campaign, which would be nice, but I've got news for ya, Republicans aren't going to like the results of this debate any more than the previous one.

Why will they not like it?

[ryls]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

They should, but it's not so difficult to cobble together.

Maybe this will make a more substantive turn in the campaign, which would be nice, but I've got news for ya, Republicans aren't going to like the results of this debate any more than the previous one.

People have to realize we need to change the entitlements, it may be rich people don't get social security or get less of a percentage than they do now, I would think Democrats would love that idea, but all they want to do is use it as a campaign issue, if you can't get the public on board with that then we are in big trouble and that could be the case.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by ryls

People have to realize we need to change the entitlements, it may be rich people don't get social security or get less of a percentage than they do now, I would think Democrats would love that idea, but all they want to do is use it as a campaign issue, if you can't get the public on board with that then we are in big trouble and that could be the case.

I kind of agree with you on substance (with some caveats), but the fact of the matter is, it's a losing political issue for the Republicans in 2012.

[ryls]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

I kind of agree with you on substance (with some caveats), but the fact of the matter is, it's a losing political issue for the Republicans in 2012.

I am afraid you might be right but it's a shame, every politician knows they must be fixed but I agree the general public will not like hearing about the sacrifices that need to be made and it might help the Democrats win.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by ryls

People have to realize we need to change the entitlements, it may be rich people don't get social security or get less of a percentage than they do now, I would think Democrats would love that idea, but all they want to do is use it as a campaign issue, if you can't get the public on board with that then we are in big trouble and that could be the case.

Great idea. Paris Hilton and my grandmother get their Social Security cut. Look forward tomRyan defending that in the debate.

Seriously, I'm glad about the Ryan pick. Had Romney picked a boring white guy like T-paw or Portman, or a "liberal" who might actually attract votes Romneymwont get anyway like Christie, and lost, we'd hear the usual insanity that the repubs lost because their ticket wasn't wing nutty enough. If Romney/Ryan loses the fallacy of that argument will be irrefutable - although Limbaugh and his ilk will still make it, reality has never deterred them.

I also think the Ryan pick reflects that Romney knows that the anybody-but-Romney crowd was never going to embrace him fully. There's a substantial proportion of the repub electorate that serially supported Bachman, then Perry, then Cain, then Newt and then Santorum (read that list again - wow). Romney alone can't approach that level of wacko, but Romney + Ryan is as close as he could make it.

[AzIlliniFan]

The Tea Party crowd will certainly be pleased with Ryan as the pick for VP. Will everyone else be okay with this?

[KBLEE]

Ryan has been confirmed as the choice. Official announcement coming at 8AM.

I was always a fan of Rubio, but this choice is OK with me. It attacks at Obama's greatest weakness. This election is going to be about the economy.

[ryls]

Originally Posted by illinibob

Great idea. Paris Hilton and my grandmother get their Social Security cut. Look forward tomRyan defending that in the debate.

Seriously, I'm glad about the Ryan pick. Had Romney picked a boring white guy like T-paw or Portman, or a "liberal" who might actually attract votes Romneymwont get anyway like Christie, and lost, we'd hear the usual insanity that the repubs lost because their ticket wasn't wing nutty enough. If Romney/Ryan loses the fallacy of that argument will be irrefutable - although Limbaugh and his ilk will still make it, reality has never deterred them.

I also think the Ryan pick reflects that Romney knows that the anybody-but-Romney crowd was never going to embrace him fully. There's a substantial proportion of the repub electorate that serially supported Bachman, then Perry, then Cain, then Newt and then Santorum (read that list again - wow). Romney alone can't approach that level of wacko, but Romney + Ryan is as close as he could make it.

Ryan or no other Republican has suggested taking grandma's social security away, maybe you say the age is going up starting with those born after 1970 or something like that. I also said maybe the wealthier people be means tested, I would think liberals should love that one,punish those wealthy people who actually paid more into it, and if Obama had a clue and could get unemployment lower that would help.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by ryls

Ryan or no other Republican has suggested taking grandma's social security away, maybe you say the age is going up starting with those born after 1970 or something like that. I also said maybe the wealthier people be means tested, I would think liberals should love that one,punish those wealthy people who actually paid more into it, and if Obama had a clue and could get unemployment lower that would help.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were suggesting. It's grandma's Medicare he'll take away. And you know that Social Security is separate from the budget deficit that many tea partners claim to care about, but which Ryan's plan will actually exacerbate, right?

David Gregory and Chuck Todd are as tingly as schoolgirls at a Justin Bieber concert this morning. That's what makes Ryan formidable, the so-called-but-not-at-all liberal media looooooove him, just like they loved McCain. The narrative that Ryan is "serious" and "courageous" will be hard to dislodge.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

The Tea Party crowd will certainly be pleased with Ryan as the pick for VP. Will everyone else be okay with this?

"Everyone else" in the country? No.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by illinibob

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were suggesting.

David Gregory and Chuck Todd are as tingly as schoolgirls at a Justin Bieber concert this morning. That's what makes Ryan formidable, the so-called-but-not-at-all liberal media looooooove him, just like they loved McCain. The narrative that Ryan is "serious" and "courageous" will be hard to dislodge.

It's a fair point, don't underestimate the media's pushback against Obama attacks on the Ryan budget. All you guys might end up liking the "liberal media" this cycle more than you realize.

Still, this pick puzzles me. Isn't this campaign enough of a target-rich environment already?

Also, why is this speech happening on a battleship? Holy George W Bush optics Batman!

[AHSIllini32]

Hopefully anyone in the middle class who wants a chance a medicare/medicade/social security and to not have the rich get tax cuts doesn't vote for Romney with this choice as VP.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by illinibob

"Everyone else" in the country? No.

That depends, does "everyone else" mean the rich? Because basically anyone who's middle class or a woman should be running to the polls to vote for Obama.

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Hopefully anyone in the middle class who wants a chance a medicare/medicade/social security and to not have the rich get tax cuts doesn't vote for Romney with this choice as VP.

Hopefully anyone who thinks obama is good for America falls off a cliff.

[zogillinifan]

Originally Posted by illinibob

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were suggesting. It's grandma's Medicare he'll take away. And you know that Social Security is separate from the budget deficit that many tea partners claim to care about, but which Ryan's plan will actually exacerbate, right?

David Gregory and Chuck Todd are as tingly as schoolgirls at a Justin Bieber concert this morning. That's what makes Ryan formidable, the so-called-but-not-at-all liberal media looooooove him, just like they loved McCain. The narrative that Ryan is "serious" and "courageous" will be hard to dislodge.

Grandma's medicade does not go away. Ryan's plan does not effect anyone who is scheduled to receive medicade before 2022. Anyone who is on medicade by 2022 (everyone who is currently 55 years old and older) will stay on the old system. Anyone who is currently 54 years old and younger will be switched to a privatized system where the government pays up to a certain amount of money for a private health insurance plan. If the individual does not want as much insurance as is provided, they can change to a cheaper plan and pocket the difference, or they can pay some amount of money for a better plan.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by zogillinifan

Grandma's medicade does not go away. Ryan's plan does not effect anyone who is scheduled to receive medicade before 2022. Anyone who is on medicade by 2022 (everyone who is currently 55 years old and older) will stay on the old system. Anyone who is currently 54 years old and younger will be switched to a privatized system where the government pays up to a certain amount of money for a private health insurance plan. If the individual does not want as much insurance as is provided, they can change to a cheaper plan and pocket the difference, or they can pay some amount of money for a better plan.

We're all grandmas or grandads eventually was my point.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by Mix Tape

Hopefully anyone who thinks obama is good for America falls off a cliff.

Tea party bumper sticker right there. Says it all.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by Mix Tape

Hopefully anyone who thinks obama is good for America falls off a cliff.

Now now...

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

Now now...

Overstated?

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by Mix Tape

Overstated?

A bit.

[thetisdalefactor]

voting for Romney/Ryan + not being a millionaire = MORON!

[zogillinifan]

Originally Posted by illinibob

We're all grandmas or grandads eventually was my point.

If Medicaid/Medicare stay on their current paths, many future grandmas and grandads won't have it anyways, because there will be no funds left.

I don't know if Ryan's plan will work, no one does, but the current path that Medicaid/Medicare is following won't work, so I'm open for trying something new.