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A look ahead to the 2012-13 Illini

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Old Oct 5, 2012, 07:46 PM   #101
Groundhogday
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Originally Posted by rtbritt View Post
Yes, many thought he was definitely a wing player with the ability to maybe be a point-forward type. Just like many thought Jereme Richmond could be.
Point forward / stretch 4. I don't remember much talk about him being a 1/2 combo, though I'm sure someone was hoping.

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Old Oct 5, 2012, 08:06 PM   #102
Illini70math
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
Point forward / stretch 4. I don't remember much talk about him being a 1/2 combo, though I'm sure someone was hoping.
Hey, we desperately needed another point guard. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

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Old Oct 5, 2012, 08:52 PM   #103
DaytonIllini
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Hey, we desperately needed another point guard. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I just had an image of Ibby running the point.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 02:13 AM   #104
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On the plus side, Egwu, Abrams, Langford, Henry, Ibby and Shaw will all be second year players. Usually college players see the greatest improvement from year 1 to year 2.

On the down side, we did lose Maniscalco. Though much maligned and chronically injured, he was the most capable ball handler on the team last year. We might miss him more than some fans think.
This is true.... See Mr. Leonard..

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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:04 AM   #105
Foo G
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Just catching up on some of the overnight rumblings and grumblings...
There were a few non-recruiting discussions in the recruiting thread that I wanted to weigh in on.
With the thread clean-up initiative in effect, I'll try it here.

On the topic of Leonard's lack of playing time and production his freshman year, I think the main reason for that was the fact that Weber used him in the same capacity as Tisdale, even though they were totally different players.
Tisdale was a skilled finesse player but limited athletically.
Meyers was essentially the opposite -- raw and athletic with limited skill development at the time.
They had much different abilities, yet were used interchangeably without regard for how to optimize their individual strengths (or at least in ML's case).

As far as Egwu's pro potential, I think he could develop into a viable pro prospect by his junior year.
In 2 years, with the right coaching, he should have enough time to add on another 15-20 pounds of muscle, improve his footwork on both ends of the floor, develop a few go-to offensive moves and consistent jump shot, and refine his fundamentals.
I could see him playing the same role as guys like Kendrick Perkins, Emeka Okafor, Joel Anthony, and Nazr Mohammed.
I'm not sure that he would find himself in the upper half of the first round (depending on the depth of the draft class for that particular year), but I think he will be a guy that will have a solid NBA career.
There just aren't a lot of blue collar guys with NE's physical attributes available.
The few that there are, and that are willing to do the dirty work, usually find themselves playing a key role on contending teams.

In the meantime, Nnanna's got his work cut out for him.
He'll have ample opportunities to prove himself in the Big 10 against the likes of Zeller, McGary, Mbakwe, Berggren, Amir Williams, Payne/Nix, Ubel (Nebraska), and Simpson/Hammons (PU).
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:43 PM   #106
Groundhogday
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Based upon press conference tea leaf reading, here is another take on the possible rotation:

Bigs: McLaurin, Egwu (key reserve Griffey)
Smalls: Abrams, Richardson, Paul (key reserve Bertrand)

Henry, Langford, and Shaw will be fighting for a rotation spot at the 4. Langford or Henry might get a few minutes at the 3.

Barring major injury, we will at least have a 7-man rotation and that could be stretched to 8 or 9 depending upon how Henry, Langford and Shaw develop. Fingers crossed that at least one of those guys develops into a reliable contributor. I'm inclined to think we'll be closer to 8 than 10 simply because we only have 4 true perimeter guys (Henry or Langford might only get emergency minutes at the 3).

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Old Oct 11, 2012, 07:48 AM   #107
illini73
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Really looking forward to watching the development of Langford. If he can improve his motor it sounds like he has all the tools to be real, real good. Probably not this year (of course you never know), but by the time he is a junior he could be special.

It is just a matter of how much he WANTS it!
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 08:28 AM   #108
Groundhogday
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Really looking forward to watching the development of Langford. If he can improve his motor it sounds like he has all the tools to be real, real good. Probably not this year (of course you never know), but by the time he is a junior he could be special.

It is just a matter of how much he WANTS it!
One of the things I found interesting about the Groce press conference is that he referred to Langford as a long perimeter player. I think he was also on the list of guys who could help out with depth inside, but this statement was the clearest I've read or heard on Langford's position. He might be more of a 3-4 than a 4-3. His ball handling skills might give him a leg up on Henry for backup perimeter minutes.

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Old Oct 11, 2012, 09:27 AM   #109
HeartofaChampion
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One of the things I found interesting about the Groce press conference is that he referred to Langford as a long perimeter player. I think he was also on the list of guys who could help out with depth inside, but this statement was the clearest I've read or heard on Langford's position. He might be more of a 3-4 than a 4-3. His ball handling skills might give him a leg up on Henry for backup perimeter minutes.
Huge keys for DL, IMO, are his outside shot and his ballhandling. To play the 3, he has to be able to at least make enough 3s to keep defenders honest, and he needs to be at least a modest threat to be able to drive past defenders. Everything I heard this summer was that he is one of the top 2-3 passers on the team, but in a dribble drive O the 3 has to have the ability to take other wings off the dribble and hit some kickout 3s, too, that give him the spacing needed to get past his defender off the dribble because his defender has to guard him tight on the perimeter. Hitting the 3 isn't an issue for MyH, but like DL he's not a great ballhandler, and neither has a quick first step.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 10:23 AM   #110
Groundhogday
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Huge keys for DL, IMO, are his outside shot and his ballhandling. To play the 3, he has to be able to at least make enough 3s to keep defenders honest, and he needs to be at least a modest threat to be able to drive past defenders. Everything I heard this summer was that he is one of the top 2-3 passers on the team, but in a dribble drive O the 3 has to have the ability to take other wings off the dribble and hit some kickout 3s, too, that give him the spacing needed to get past his defender off the dribble because his defender has to guard him tight on the perimeter. Hitting the 3 isn't an issue for MyH, but like DL he's not a great ballhandler, and neither has a quick first step.
So do you think ultimately both Henry and Langford are stretch 4s?

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Old Oct 11, 2012, 11:42 AM   #111
Madturkillini
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
Based upon press conference tea leaf reading, here is another take on the possible rotation:

Bigs: McLaurin, Egwu (key reserve Griffey)
Smalls: Abrams, Richardson, Paul (key reserve Bertrand)

Henry, Langford, and Shaw will be fighting for a rotation spot at the 4. Langford or Henry might get a few minutes at the 3.

Barring major injury, we will at least have a 7-man rotation and that could be stretched to 8 or 9 depending upon how Henry, Langford and Shaw develop. Fingers crossed that at least one of those guys develops into a reliable contributor. I'm inclined to think we'll be closer to 8 than 10 simply because we only have 4 true perimeter guys (Henry or Langford might only get emergency minutes at the 3).
I don't get it. Henry and Shaw were both 4* recruits. I would normally expect 4* players to become significant contributers (if not starters already) in their sophomore year. What is wrong here? Were they so overrated in the recruiting rankings? Did they not develop at all in their freshmen year? Is that complately Weber's fault, or do they have no ambition to become succesful college players?
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 11:47 AM   #112
WesterveltVictoryCigar
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Originally Posted by Madturkillini View Post
I don't get it. Henry and Shaw were both 4* recruits. I would normally expect 4* players to become significant contributers (if not starters already) in their sophomore year. What is wrong here? Were they so overrated in the recruiting rankings? Did they not develop at all in their freshmen year? Is that complately Weber's fault, or do they have no ambition to become succesful college players?
A few things:

Paul, Richardson, Abrams and Egwu were also 4 stars, Griffey and Bertrand were not too far off from that designation, either. You can only play so many guys.

Recruiting isn't an exact science.

Some guys develop more quickly than others.

Shaw was probably over-rated.
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Old Oct 11, 2012, 12:08 PM   #113
Greensboro
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Making the tourney would be a great start, but I'm much more inclined to think we'll be back on track in 2013.
I'm not sure much changes between 2012 & 2013 to expect a big improvement...next year we lose Griffey, Richardson, & Paul + SM & replace with some freshman & Rice...think Rice sounds like he is able to make an immediate impact, but not counting on freshman to help much & we loose a lot of minutes over the last few years between BP & DJ, plus likely SM, TG, or both will play a significant role this year... so are you counting on improvements from returning 2013 players, Rice, incoming freshman, or improved familiarity with new system for getting back on track in 2013 season? That's why I think it is important to see some improvements this year from beginning to end of season, if we don't get better with system over the season or sophmore class doesn't start coming along during the season, I'm not expecting magic to happen over next summer.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 07:50 AM   #114
Illini366
This is my first post. I have been following the Forum for approximately a year now and figured I would get off the bench a particpate from time to time. I appreciate reading everyones input even if I do not agree with all of it. I have heard that Rice is the best player on the team during their workouts and can score at will. They told me that he is a MAN among boys and if he were playing this year they believed we would be a lock for the NCAA Tournament.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 09:53 AM   #115
Ubermensch
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Guys saying the right things. Of course the players always say things like this. But I actually tend to believe them now.

"We have a goal in mind. It's kind of frustrating when people say 'try to make it to the tournament.' I feel like that should be a given. That should be something we should be doing. We should be focused on how far we're going to make it in the tournament."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports...0,333317.story

"It's definitely at that point now," Richardson said on Illinois' media day. "No reason for me to hold back. It's my last year. I have to give it everything. I don't want to go out saying shoulda, coulda, woulda. It's time do it now."

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/coll...e-than-shooter
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 10:41 AM   #116
HeartofaChampion
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
So do you think ultimately both Henry and Langford are stretch 4s?
MyH has the outside shot to be one, but I wonder if he is too short and doesnt have a high enough motor/aggressive, attacking style to play that role.

DL was struggling with his outside shot in the spring and early summer months. Unless he's made significant strides in his 3-point shot consistency this fall, that may prevent him from playing such a role.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 12:40 PM   #117
Konnie
Location: Western Suburbs
I apologize if the is the wrong forum for this question but I am a new men’s basketball season ticket holder. When do they usually send out the tickets?
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 01:34 PM   #118
Groundhogday
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Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion View Post
MyH has the outside shot to be one, but I wonder if he is too short and doesnt have a high enough motor/aggressive, attacking style to play that role.

DL was struggling with his outside shot in the spring and early summer months. Unless he's made significant strides in his 3-point shot consistency this fall, that may prevent him from playing such a role.
If DL doesn't have the shot to play the stretch 4, does he have the shot to play the 3? If Henry isn't tough enough to play the stretch 4, does he have the ball handling skills to play the 3?

Ideally, it is great to have one or two guys capable of playing the 3 or 4. But from the sound of things, we might have a couple of guys not capable of playing either well.

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Old Oct 12, 2012, 01:51 PM   #119
jhayton
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I have never had season tickets, but I would assume that they come out the day that they go on sale to the general public. So late Octoberish.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 03:28 PM   #120
Illiniwek_2
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http://youtu.be/j8JH6st6-WE

I know it's just one highlight from a kid's high school days, but this clip really made me expect big things from Henry. I don't know why he seems to be "unmotivated" or "laid back." There's even been talk of him transferring down the line if he doesn't fit in. I think that would be our loss. It's my opinion he should develop into a super stud and would be a great impact recruit we already have, that we don't have to recruit another player to replace for the next 2 years. Has athleticism and elite shot ability.
Ok I'll get off my MyH soap box.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:10 PM   #121
basketballguru
Dont think the fighting Illini will be good until next season 13-14.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:39 PM   #122
Dreamteam05
I really think Mike Shaw is going to have a successful year. He has lost some weight and got in better basketball shape. I saw a highlight tape of course he looks good in it and makes all his shots, but he seems to be a "stretch" 4 that Groce wants. He can make his fair share of outside shots. He is very athletic and can finish above the rim. He is going to be great off the bench! hopefully the coaches give him some confidence so he can succeed. He has a ton of potential.

Here is the highlight tape
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.Y6C59NVKZCE
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:54 PM   #123
Illini70math
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I really think Mike Shaw is going to have a successful year. He has lost some weight and got in better basketball shape. I saw a highlight tape of course he looks good in it and makes all his shots, but he seems to be a "stretch" 4 that Groce wants. He can make his fair share of outside shots. He is very athletic and can finish above the rim. He is going to be great off the bench! hopefully the coaches give him some confidence so he can succeed. He has a ton of potential.

Here is the highlight tape
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc....1.Y6C59NVKZCE
Yeah, you have put your finger on the fundamental problem in my opinion. Watch this highlight tape (I had seen it before, but memories fade), and then watch the tapes for Colbert or Moore (I know his are not current). In my opinion, it's really hard to argue that Shaw isn't considerably more talented than either of those two if you watch these tapes.

The key, of course, is all these tapes show guys playing against other high school players, not B1G players. Mike handled the ball rather well in this tape against lesser opponents, and he can certainly sky as show in the opening shots. Against B1G players, it's a very different issue.

That said, I still think Groce has to take either Colbert or Moore if he can one because they are two classes behind Shaw. I don't think our staff is in a position to be rolling over scholarships right now.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:57 PM   #124
Dreamteam05
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Yeah, you have put your finger on the fundamental problem in my opinion. Watch this highlight tape (I had seen it before, but memories fade), and then watch the tapes for Colbert or Moore (I know his are not current). It's really hard to argue that Shaw isn't considerably more talented than either of those two in my opinion if you watch these tapes.

The key, of course, is all these tapes show guys playing against other high school players, not B1G players. Mike handled the ball rather well in this tape against lesser opponents, and he can certainly sky as show in the opening shots. Against B1G players, it's a very different issue.

That said, I still think Groce has to take either Colbert or Moore if he can one because they are two classes behind Shaw. I don't think our staff is in a position to be rolling over scholarships right now.

I completely agree that he needs to take a PF in 2013. He knows he needs depth and no one knows about injuries, I just think we are better off than people think. Shaw is a good player that just needs coached up. He is only a sophomore. Players make the biggest jump from freshman year to sophomore year.
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 05:26 PM   #125
Illini70math
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I completely agree that he needs to take a PF in 2013. He knows he needs depth and no one knows about injuries, I just think we are better off than people think. Shaw is a good player that just needs coached up. He is only a sophomore. Players make the biggest jump from freshman year to sophomore year.
Agreed.
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