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Conference Realignment Thread (Maryland & Rutgers join the Big Ten conference)

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:15 AM   #451
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I can't see ND happening. I don't think ND alums would stand for it. They really look down/love to hate on the Big 10. We just don't talk football with our ND friends. Anything beyone "great game yesterday" could cause an arguement. I really think they would go with any other conference first.

We think it makes sense. They don't.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 07:23 AM   #452
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For those wondering how this expansion makes sense, I was listening to something last night where a movie director was talking about HBO in the context of making money and the quality of their programs. He said their focus is on selling subscriptions is first by a long shot, then winning emmys then the ratings for their programs. This is the exact same as the BTN. They just want to get on all those east coast cable systems. THAT is how they make the money flow.

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 08:26 AM   #453
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Quote:
Big Ten announces news conference with Rutgers officials and commissioner Jim Delany at 2 pm ET on school's campus in Piscataway, N.J.

http://twitter.com/ESPN_BigTen
Quote:
Rutgers' move to Big Ten set to become official Tuesday

Enticed by the promise of a financial windfall and in search of a prominent place in the fast-changing order of college athletics, Rutgers is on the verge Tuesday of joining the prestigious Big Ten.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/in...en_set_to.html
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 08:50 AM   #454
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Good to see that we are the prestigious Big Ten.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:03 AM   #455
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Nate Silver:
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...big-ten-brand/
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:05 AM   #456
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We need to stop at 14 teams so we can call it the Big 10-4
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:37 AM   #457
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Originally Posted by Lasagna View Post
regardless, unless rutgers is a top14 research institution, there is still improvement to be done. call the criteria whatever you like, but our progressive wishes for the conference have to be the same!
My progressive wishes for the conference are reality based. Again, you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to academics, now is probably the time to find a quiet exit. See below.
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Originally Posted by The Galloping Ghost View Post
Here's the list:

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2012.html

T14 would be:

1. Harvard (Ivy - NEVER HAPPENING)
2. Stanford (Almost Impossible to rip apart the Pac12, not to mention not a geographic fit at all)
3. MIT (Not D1)
4. Cal (See above)
5. Cal Tech (Not D1)
6. Princeton (See above)
7. Columbia (See above)
8. Chicago (Already in the CIC)
9. Yale (See above)
10. UCLA (See above)
11. Cornell (See above)
12. Penn (See above)
13. UC San Diego (Not exactly top notch athletics, not to mention not a geographic fit at all)
14. University of Washington (See above)

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:40 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
You're still fighting this battle? Those who don't do research will likely never understand your point. One thing though, regarding Notre Dame. You are of course correct, but in the last several years they have put up a medical campus and vastly expanded their life-science research capabilities. They have also been following (to a much lesser extent) the Hopkins model of cross-collaboration between engineering and life-sciences. So, although today they are not a major research university, I do think it's possible they become so within the next 20 years.
It is certainly possible. And becoming a member of the CIC would really help (ND faculty would LOVE to join the B1G.) But right now they are not a top research university. But they have enough potential as a research institution that we would stretch to include their football program (would never happen for, say, Oklahoma.)

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:46 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by OrangeKrush View Post
Interesting analysis, but Nate is only looking at the current fan numbers, not the number of TV sets that will have BTN in basic cable and the number of games broadcast on the east coast by ESPN or FOX. Moreover, if you can start to get BTN on basic cable for the east coast and games broadcast, you will develop a stronger fan following on the east coast. I don't think NY or DC will ever be college towns, but even a slice of those markets means a huge amount of revenue.

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:49 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
I don't think NY or DC will ever be college towns, but even a slice of those markets means a huge amount of revenue.
I'm surprised at how many people don't get this - they think the Big Ten is making this crazy gamble that they'll be able to get people uninterested in college athletics to be Big Ten junkies or something, which is just not even close to the objective.

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 09:51 AM   #461
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
It is certainly possible. And becoming a member of the CIC would really help (ND faculty would LOVE to join the B1G.) But right now they are not a top research university. But they have enough potential as a research institution that we would stretch to include their football program (would never happen for, say, Oklahoma.)
Exactly the point I was trying to make. It's important to look at potential in addition to current standing both academically and athletically.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 10:36 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
Interesting analysis, but Nate is only looking at the current fan numbers, not the number of TV sets that will have BTN in basic cable and the number of games broadcast on the east coast by ESPN or FOX. Moreover, if you can start to get BTN on basic cable for the east coast and games broadcast, you will develop a stronger fan following on the east coast. I don't think NY or DC will ever be college towns, but even a slice of those markets means a huge amount of revenue.
He seems to ignore the fact that the attractiveness of schools like Iowa State, Missouri and Colorado are pretty much maxed out. The East Coast is so fertile. It is exactly the minimal penetration in a large population base that makes it so exciting from a revenue and marketing standpoint. Further the opportunity to attract new highly qualified East Coast students to the B1G's universities is pretty compelling.

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 10:40 AM   #463
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Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli View Post
I'm surprised at how many people don't get this - they think the Big Ten is making this crazy gamble that they'll be able to get people uninterested in college athletics to be Big Ten junkies or something, which is just not even close to the objective.
Right. It's not about creating new college football fans. It's about turning the college football fans that are already in those markets into Big 10 fans.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:03 PM   #464
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Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
He seems to ignore the fact that the attractiveness of schools like Iowa State, Missouri and Colorado are pretty much maxed out. The East Coast is so fertile. It is exactly the minimal penetration in a large population base that makes it so exciting from a revenue and marketing standpoint. Further the opportunity to attract new highly qualified East Coast students to the B1G's universities is pretty compelling.
I would agree with this assessment except for your characterization of Colorado, a state that has grown by 16.9% over the past decade. If the Pac12 can develop a stronger fan following they certainly have the demographics with CO, CA, AZ, OR, UT and WA all among the fastest growing states.

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:35 PM   #465
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Official release-
Quote:
Rutgers University To Join The Big Ten Conference

Park Ridge, Ill. -- The Big Ten Council of Presidents/Chancellors (COP/C) announced unanimous approval today for Rutgers University to join the Big Ten Conference, with competition to begin in all sports at a date to be determined. Rutgers University also looks forward to joining the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC), a consortium of world-class research institutions dedicated to advancing their academic missions.

"The Big Ten includes America's most highly regarded academic institutions, known for both their athletic success and academic achievement," said Rutgers President Robert Barchi. "This is exactly the right conference for Rutgers. Our university is one of the nation's leading research universities and our student-athletes excel in the classroom and on the playing field."

"On behalf of the Big Ten Council of Presidents and Chancellors, I am pleased to welcome Rutgers University to the Big Ten Conference," said COP/C Chair and University of Iowa President Sally Mason. "When considering the full spectrum of academic, athletic and research prowess, Rutgers clearly makes for a perfect fit as one of the premier public land-grant institutions on the East Coast. We are excited to welcome them within our ranks, and look forward to collaboration and competition with yet another great Big Ten university."

http://www.bigten.org/genrel/112012aaf.html
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:49 PM   #466
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While I'm sure there were mixed feelings at the University of Maryland yesterday, it is all high fives at Rutgers. They are thrilled to be part of the B1G.

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:13 PM   #467
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Delany said conversation with Pernetti [played out over 3-4 years. Rutgers in play for Big Ten for a while. Maryland a more recent situation

Rutgers AD Pernetti says talks with Big Ten became more serious in last 2-3 weeks. "We needed to move quickly on this."

Delany says Rutgers should manage entry date to Big Ten with Big East. Pernetti says will work as productively as they can to resolve it.

Delany says BTN in New York market has been overplayed. Says paradigm shift around country bigger factor.

Delany: "We have not been directed, we have not been incented and we have not been guided by any television partner."

Rutgers AD says ticket office getting more renewals, development office getting good news about donations. Big Ten enthusiasm already there.

Pernetti says Rutgers and Big Ten discussed possibility of moving games to MetLife or Yankee Stadium. Not required, but likely will do it.

Presser over. Definitely different feeling at Rutgers today -- overjoyed, no-brainer -- vs. Maryland, which had tough time leaving ACC

Delany says "too early to say" whether any future B1G football title games or basketball tourneys will be played in the East.

http://twitter.com/ESPN_BigTen
Quote:
Big Ten's Delany: 'It's a great day for Rutgers'

“I’m exit 144,” he said, going along with the popular Garden State joke.

One of his three sisters, Jean, studied at Rutgers. Two other siblings and several cousins live in New Jersey.

“It’s a great day for Rutgers and New Jersey and the Big Ten and for me personally,” Delany said in an interview with the Tribune. “I’m a little nostalgic. I texted with my sister (Nancy) who is a teacher here. She said my mom and dad and my grandparents would be chuckling.”

Rutgers gives the Big Ten 14 schools. Is 16 a better number?

“I would not speculate on that,” Delany replied. “We stayed at 11 (Penn State) for 20 years and 12 (Nebraska) for two years. At 14, we’re in a great place, but we will watch to see what happens around the country, see if it keeps shifting.

Teddy Greenstein
Quote:
Big Ten sacrifices quality for cash with expansion

The reality is Delany has been very forthcoming about his reasoning, in fact, so forthcoming not many people believe him.

"Demographics," the Big Ten commissioner keeps repeating when discussing expansion.

And really, demographics it is. This isn't a mocking of Delany. It's a tip of the cap to pure, unadulterated, unapologetic, cutthroat capitalism. And this isn't a mocking of pure, unadulterated, unapologetic, cutthroat capitalism. If you can make a buck, go ahead and make it.

Dan Wetzel
Quote:
Big Ten adds Rutgers in an attempt to increase its East Coast presence

Delany said the media has a perception that getting the Big Ten Network into more homes in the East and mid-Atlantic regions is easy. He strongly disagrees with that notion.

"It's not that way," he said. "We went a year with the Big Ten Network without distributing in core areas. We decided we wanted to do that we did it and hung together. We'll have discussion with people."

Delany pointed around the country to the difficulty cable networks have had in the past. He said the Pac-12's distribution is "not great," the Longhorn Network "hasn't gotten off," and The Mountain died.

"The notion that this is like flipping a switch is not good," he said. "It's a different business."

Pete Thamel
Quote:
Big Ten's biggest expansion gamble is itself

According to The New York Times' Nate Silver -- who, if you followed the latest election, isn't bad at this polling thing -- Rutgers and Maryland don't account for large percentages of sports fans in their respective mega-markets. Silver writes that Rutgers will rank near the bottom of the Big Ten in number of football fans, while Maryland will supplant Northwestern, the Big Ten's only private school, as the smallest football fan base in the league.

Is that a concern? Maybe a little. But the Big Ten didn't add Maryland or Rutgers for their fan bases and certainly not for their athletic prowess in the major sports (sorry, lacrosse fans). It added them for their locations, and what the existing Big Ten brand -- the one that netted a record $284 million in revenue last year and continues to grow despite mostly disappointing on-field results in recent years -- can do with a more frequent presence in these markets.

"It's a lot about that," Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany told ESPN.com on Tuesday from New Jersey, where he's attending the announcement of Rutgers' admission to the league. "There's a lot of awareness of different sports brands in different parts of the world, but it's very hard to get beyond awareness if you're not there. Now that we're here, we expect to work awful hard and be impactful.

"We're not going to be dominant, no one's going to be dominant. This is probably the richest corridor in the world."

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:20 PM   #468
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Quote:
B1G commish Jim Delany just told me we should not believe report on Rut & Md going to Leaders, and Ill shifting to Legends …

Delany: “I have absolutely no idea where that came from. We have not had discussion one about that.”

Delany says geography will probably play a more important role in the next divisional alignment

Delany reiterates the Big Ten "has to seriously consider adding more [conference] games." Says it would help maintain rivalries.

Delany says nine-game sked has to be back on the table. Question is whether schools have flexibility in future schedules.

http://twitter.com/ESPN_BigTen

Last edited by Dan; Nov 24, 2012 at 06:58 AM.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:21 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
While I'm sure there were mixed feelings at the University of Maryland yesterday, it is all high fives at Rutgers. They are thrilled to be part of the B1G.
of course it is. they get the great brand name and we get a 60-70th ranked school. you can make the argument for maryland in certain context, harder to make the same for rutgers.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:23 PM   #470
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of course it is. they get the great brand name and we get a 60-70th ranked school. you can make the argument for maryland in certain context, harder to make the same for rutgers.
It's not, really. It's been made repeatedly. It's hard to hear when you have your fingers in your ears and are stomping your feet, though.

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:25 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli View Post
It's not, really. It's been made repeatedly. It's hard to hear when you have your fingers in your ears and are stomping your feet, though.
i just used ghd's previous assessment
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:35 PM   #472
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Delany says nine-game sked has to be back on the table. Question is whether schools have flexibility in future schedules.
A nine game conference schedule is better for the fans: more competitive games. But there needs to be more weight on strength of schedule in determining bowl game invitations or the conference as a whole will take a hit.

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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:41 PM   #473
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Now that we have officially added Maryland & Rutgers, there is rampant speculation that The Big Ten has not completed its expansion plans. While some assume, we will move next into the lower Mid-Atlantic with Virginia and North Carolina, I'd like to propose another theory. As we just added two deeply blue states, with stellar academic profiles to help Penn State feel like less of an outlier, how about we move southwest to help out the Huskers? In order to balance the shift toward Eastern demographics, let's add the two most Conservative States in the Union, Kansas and Oklahoma. While neither has the academic prestige of the previous 14 members, Kansas does have AAU status and a blue-blood basketball program with a national following and Oklahoma, while lacking AAU status, is huge football draw and will finally be reunited as the season finale for Nebraska after a 20 year hiatus. What do you think? Who would you rather play in football and basketball, The Cavs and Tarheels or the Jayhawks and Sooners?
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:49 PM   #474
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Quote:
Jason Baum ‏@JasonBaumRU
Be sure to check this out on billboards across New Jersey today and tomorrow #WeRB1G http://pic.twitter.com/OQ16jR2I



https://twitter.com/JasonBaumRU
Rutgers sure didn't waste any time...

Last edited by Dan; Nov 20, 2012 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Added image
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 01:53 PM   #475
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Ok, let's talk Big Ten sports and scheduling (this will go downhill when we announce teams 15-16, but work with me here)

Football:
14 schools, split into two 7 team divisions, 8 or 9 games.
Teams play divisional opponents, and cross-division protected rival, and 1-2 wildcard games.

Best guesses at cross-division rivals (If Illinois goes to Legends)
Michigan-Ohio State (certain)
Minnesota-Wisconsin (certain)
Michigan State-Indiana (they have a rivalry trophy)
Nebraska-Penn State (current matchup)

now we get a little uncertain
Northwestern-Rutgers (makes sense as they used to play semi-regularly iirc)
Iowa-Purdue? (current protected "rival", and just feels better than Iowa Maryland)
Illinois-Maryland (I'm being greedy, I like it better than playing Purdue... we'll play Purdue)

Division champs play in Big Ten title game in title game, probably still in Indy, although sites like Cleveland, East Rutherford, Detroit, Chicago and maybe new stadium in Minnesota could be in play?

IMPACT: Rutgers is alright, Maryland could be ok, but they don't upset the apple cart.

Basketball (M&W)
14 schools, 18 games. Can't really do divisions unless you want to play an odd number of games (12 games against division, 7 games against opposite division)... so I assume we'll arbitrarily play 5 teams twice to get to 18 games.... i'd like to see them protect regional rivals somehow. I almost would like to see a 19 game division schedule because I think the division races and regional rivalries would be fun.

Big question is the Big Ten Tournament. Indy and Chicago makes too much sense to mix up, although Cleveland could get into the mix, an east coast location just isn't going to happen, especially since nobody at Rutgers cares about basketball.

The question is this, how do we handle 2 more teams?

Top 12 qualify? (can't do that, gotta sell tickets in advance)

Standard 14 teams with only 2 byes to Friday? Maybe, but 6 games a day isn't going to happen (have to start at like 8am and play until 11). So you could have 3 games on Wednesday and 3 more on Thursday feeding into the quarterfinals on Friday... OR

This is why the Big East has double byes... worst four teams play Wednesday, winners go to play teams ranked 5-10 on Thursday, winners go to Quarterfinals Friday... i think this is what happens.

IMPACT: Maryland is historically pretty good and could be tossed into the mix for Big Ten Titles, which given that Rutgers and Nebraska are horrible basketball programs is good to see.

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