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Old Jan 5, 2013, 07:48 PM   #201
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Steadier Paul, Illini drop Ohio State



All of this has helped Paul feel like he has more space to operate on offense -- he can take a screen or two, read the defense, attack the rim or dish to one of several perimeter options. But Groce has also done something much more basic: He has made his star guard feel trusted.

"He's given me, and continues to give me, more freedom," Paul said. "He knows if I make a strong decision with the ball he doesn't really have to worry about bad shot selection. We've all done a better job this year with bad shot selection, myself especially.

"He's given me the option to control the team, to control the game," Paul said. "He says to go at my pace, and make sure everyone else is on the same page. That definitely helps."

Eamonn Brennan
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 07:54 PM   #202
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Wow, having missed the game I missed that. Is that what they teach you in referee school on how to defuse a situation? Have we reached the point where the ref is now looking for a confrontation. I am guessing he'd T a player that charged up all the way across the court and went nose to nose with another player.

I didn't see it that way. I thought the ref went far out of his way to tell Groce why he called it that way. Frankly I thought the refs could of T-d him up several times.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 07:55 PM   #203
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Apologize for what? For being critical of a kid that had given us nothing all season? The kid was a total no show at Purdue and it cost us the game. If riding him after a ridiculously bad performance leads to him performing well maybe we should all ride him. I'll bet you Groce rode him hard Wednesday night and in practice this week. If apologizing to him will get him more than the 3 rebounds he got at Purdue, I'll gladly do so though.

Hopefully tonight is a sign of things to come for NE. That would bode well for the team. If he is the guy we saw on Wednesday, we are in a lot of trouble.
Come on man...nothing? You're just being overly critical of a kid getting his first meaningful minutes and being way too harsh about it.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 07:58 PM   #204
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First game I have seen OSU play. They certainly were not impressive today. Hopefully we were the cause of that, but I'm not 100% sure. I loved when we attacked the basket. Still not comfortable with the raining of 3's when there is an open lane, but I will adjust.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 07:59 PM   #205
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I know he is only a soph, but is anyone really disappointed we didn't get Sam Thompson? He has had some big dunks, but not much else.
No. I want players that want to be here. Liked NE's effort today, he looked mentally tougher tonight. This guy is still pretty raw, but I expect him to develop as the season progresses. I'm not 100% sure but i bet Egwu has already played more minutes this year than ALL of last year, so we should give him a break. Also considering he hasn't played basketball that long either. He works really hard at learning the game, and he doesn't have much room for error playing in the toughest conference in basketball. He will have up and down games due to lack of experience, but i hope for more consistency towards the end of the season.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:02 PM   #206
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Does anyone have the KenPom pregame chances to win for us at Purdue and against OSU today?
Purdue - 50%
tOSU - 29%
MN - 34%
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:07 PM   #207
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Come on man...nothing? You're just being overly critical of a kid getting his first meaningful minutes and being way too harsh about it.
Those are legitimate excuses for why he has been bad. They don't negate the fact that our 5 has been a bad position all year for us and the 4 hasn't been much better. Our guards have carried us all season. It's amazing that anyone would disagree with that.

Today NE played great statistically and be all reports. We got nothing from Sam and Tyler offensively but they gathered some rebounds and I hear they hustled.

We need consistent inside play to be a good B1G team. If we get it, nobody will be happier than I.

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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:08 PM   #208
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For those wanting Henry over Griffey- Henry's defense is not up to speed. He will be a great player but needs to learn how to play D.

IMHO
Yeah and Griffey's D is off the charts! I would say they are both bad defenders, but Henry could score as much (probably more) than Grif and IMO he would be a much better rebounder.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:11 PM   #209
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Purdue - 50%
tOSU - 29%
MN - 34%
So I was overly optimistic against PU (80%), right on with KenPom today (30%) andn overly pessimistic for MN(15%). Well I called both the first 2 wrong. Hopefully I have the 3rd one wrong as well.

I really think MN is a tougher personnel matchup for us that OSU as I said before.

BTW, and just for the record, I called 17 or 18 wins (about 8 to 10 games into the season) as a reasonably predictable outcome (not the most probable outcome just a reasonable outcome) last year and was lambasted for it. When it happened I didn't yank out a whole line of the dozens of posts telling me I was nuts. Many were from posters in this thread rolling their eyes about my feelings after the Purdue game. I was sad to be right last year. I will be sad to be right this year. The OSU win helps a lot to make me being right less likely.

I said our defense would be bad this season right before the Arizona State football game. Want to ask me to apologize for that one AHS?

I said that the NCAA's was a very reasonable expectation this year (before the season started) and I showed the math to IO when he said I was nuts early in the season. So it is hardly as if I am some kind of Cassandra calling for the sky to fall every season.

In fairness I also predicted we'd be at 8.5% unemployment right now so I make my fair share of questionable calls too.

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Last edited by DaytonIllini; Jan 5, 2013 at 08:15 PM.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:22 PM   #210
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Yeah and Griffey's D is off the charts! I would say they are both bad defenders, but Henry could score as much (probably more) than Grif and IMO he would be a much better rebounder.
+1
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:26 PM   #211
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Scirroto and Coach are not strangers having seen each other in at least 15 games while JG was a head coach. I never thought Scirotto gave coach much leash....and in the 4 games he has worked Illinois this year I have not thought he was as invisible as I prefer refs to be. He seems to have that attitude the short cop from Berwyn or Des Plaines takes when he pulls you over. At any rate I think (and just based on lots of observation and my own opinion) he has a burr up his butt for coach that may even go back to the days when JG was an assistant.

I remember this call when JG went toe to toe/face to face with him for a protracted period in game to protect a player and Larry after much review said this contact was "incedental" within the scope of play. In my eyes, Larry does not give Coach much love...or leeway. Only T' ed him a few times though. He was quick to run up and get in Coach's face today.

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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:27 PM   #212
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Those are legitimate excuses for why he has been bad. They don't negate the fact that our 5 has been a bad position all year for us and the 4 hasn't been much better. Our guards have carried us all season. It's amazing that anyone would disagree with that.

Today NE played great statistically and be all reports. We got nothing from Sam and Tyler offensively but they gathered some rebounds and I hear they hustled.

We need consistent inside play to be a good B1G team. If we get it, nobody will be happier than I.
I think we all would like to see more production out of our 4/5 spots. But I don't recall anyone having the expectation that we'd see more than what we've gotten to this point. Most of us hoped for steady improvement from NE and that is what we've seen so far. SM was just a stop gap temporary solution to bolster a position of great need. Anyone who thought he'd come in here and average 10 and 5 for the season is/was simply bonkers. TG has certainly improved from last season, just not enough for many on this site. Personally I am pleased with what they've been able to provide.

It's no secret that JG's offense is predicated upon strong guard play and the improvement by our corps of guards has been tremendous and the primary reason for our current success.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:29 PM   #213
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http://gif.mocksession.com/2013/01/illini-coaches/

Yes, two fouls and no call. The officials were off on that play.

Cheers.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:38 PM   #214
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Yeah and Griffey's D is off the charts! I would say they are both bad defenders, but Henry could score as much (probably more) than Grif and IMO he would be a much better rebounder.
Griff's D has been a problem his entire career with the Illini. He's made some big shots for us this season, but has been lacking lately. His job is simple, stretch the D, and score. He is a serious liability when guarding the interior/rebounding. Athletic guys are even harder for him to defend. MH lacks experience, so this is a weak spot defensively. Overall MH is a better rebounder. I believe these two should have split PT. It's not drastically game altering if Griff loses a little time. Idk, i could be wrong?
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:40 PM   #215
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http://gif.mocksession.com/2013/01/illini-coaches/

Yes, two fouls and no call. The officials were off on that play.

Cheers.
Was that when Ravenel head slammed TA??
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:42 PM   #216
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Those are legitimate excuses for why he has been bad. They don't negate the fact that our 5 has been a bad position all year for us and the 4 hasn't been much better. Our guards have carried us all season. It's amazing that anyone would disagree with that.

Today NE played great statistically and be all reports. We got nothing from Sam and Tyler offensively but they gathered some rebounds and I hear they hustled.

We need consistent inside play to be a good B1G team. If we get it, nobody will be happier than I.
So the question I have is what does Coach G and the Illini do?? I feel special circumstances due to

1) Lack of playing till high school
2) Playing in the toughest conference in the country
3) He is just a sophomore who is just starting this year.

I think we should trust Coach Groce, that he knows what he is doing, and will continue to develop Nnanna, and the rest of the team. If there is an alternative, I would like to hear it.

Go Illini.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:43 PM   #217
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Griff's D has been a problem his entire career with the Illini. He's made some big shots for us this season, but has been lacking lately. His job is simple, stretch the D, and score. He is a serious liability when guarding the interior/rebounding. Athletic guys are even harder for him to defend. MH lacks experience, so this is a weak spot defensively. Overall MH is a better rebounder. I believe these two should have split PT. It's not drastically game altering if Griff loses a little time. Idk, i could be wrong?
I was watching the replay and froze it for my wife to look at in the first half. Grif comes out the wing to defend and hedges to the left side while his player is palming the ball in his right hand. Thompson then puts the ball on the deck and goes baseline with his right. I get squeezing to the baseline but in that stance you are giving him the entire baseline and a clear path to the bucket AND the foul as you try to catch up. EEEEEESSSHh..Thankfully it was so blatant even she got that one right without much explanation.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:43 PM   #218
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I didn't see it that way. I thought the ref went far out of his way to tell Groce why he called it that way. Frankly I thought the refs could of T-d him up several times.
On replay, I saw at least two fouls not called. I suppose the offcial was making up for a previous miscall.

As far as the bigs, the only thing I can say gents, is that Coach Groce has a plan that will take some
time. Let's trust him a little, to do his job.

Cheers.

Last edited by Illini First; Jan 5, 2013 at 08:47 PM.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:49 PM   #219
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So the question I have is what does Coach G and the Illini do?? I feel special circumstances due to

1) Lack of playing till high school
2) Playing in the toughest conference in the country
3) He is just a sophomore who is just starting this year.

I think we should trust Coach Groce, that he knows what he is doing, and will continue to develop Nnanna, and the rest of the team. If there is an alternative, I would like to hear it.

Go Illini.
Nanna is just what JG likes in 4 s and 5s...long and lean, runs rim to rim and has a bit of bounce. He showed a good ability today to hit the 8-14 footer which is what the system gives those guys once the 3 's start to fall and the driving lanes open up. The bigs get that pass off the screen on the roll to the baseline or elbow.

I think he knows what he has in personnel and statistically is looking at every drill, every shot in practice and is using the tools in the toolbox. If he is playing there is a reason...and whomever put up TG's shooting numbers the last few games nailed it in that post.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:55 PM   #220
Illini First
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Nanna is just what JG likes in 4 s and 5s...long and lean, runs rim to rim and has a bit of bounce. He showed a good ability today to hit the 8-14 footer which is what the system gives those guys once the 3 's start to fall and the driving lanes open up. The bigs get that pass off the screen on the roll to the baseline or elbow.

I think he knows what he has in personnel and statistically is looking at every drill, every shot in practice and is using the tools in the toolbox. If he is playing there is a reason...and whomever put up TG's shooting numbers the last few games nailed it in that post.
I take it you agree with me, that the coach has a plan. I like the positive attitude.

Go Illini.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 08:56 PM   #221
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I think we all would like to see more production out of our 4/5 spots. But I don't recall anyone having the expectation that we'd see more than what we've gotten to this point. Most of us hoped for steady improvement from NE and that is what we've seen so far. SM was just a stop gap temporary solution to bolster a position of great need. Anyone who thought he'd come in here and average 10 and 5 for the season is/was simply bonkers. TG has certainly improved from last season, just not enough for many on this site. Personally I am pleased with what they've been able to provide.

It's no secret that JG's offense is predicated upon strong guard play and the improvement by our corps of guards has been tremendous and the primary reason for our current success.
Again expectations are not relevant to statements about whether the team is good enough to make the NCAA. I am pretty sure the selection committee wouldn't take into account that we had low expectations for Sam and that Nnanna started BB late in life. I didn't berate Nnanna as a human being. I said he has not provided anything this year. If I was wrong there'd be a bunch of posts about how he was awesome in this game or that game. Instead, we hear about Mizzou and nothing else.

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So the question I have is what does Coach G and the Illini do?? I feel special circumstances due to

1) Lack of playing till high school
2) Playing in the toughest conference in the country
3) He is just a sophomore who is just starting this year.

I think we should trust Coach Groce, that he knows what he is doing, and will continue to develop Nnanna, and the rest of the team. If there is an alternative, I would like to hear it.

Go Illini.
You seem to confuse the idea that we played horribly in the front court this year with whether we should be mad at Groce. Some of you are so conditioned that you take any criticism of the team as a statement about Groce's skills as a coach.

Northwestern is a really bad B1G team. They have all kinds of excuses. Shurna is gone. They lost their next best player. Their depth is poor. The sun is in their eyes. Blah, blah, blah. None of those excuses negate the statement in bold.

In the same way.

Illinois has gotten very little from the 4 or 5 this season prior to today. Sure, we didn't recruit well under Weber at those positions. Nnanna is young. Sam is a mid-major or low major recruit. Tyler was not taught to rebound by Weber. Or whatever other excuses we want to throw out there. All of them may be legitimate but none of them negate the bolded statement.

Can Groce turn it around? Well he did today. I hope it continues going forward!

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Old Jan 5, 2013, 09:01 PM   #222
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Was that when Ravenel head slammed TA??
I believe it was when Craft hacked Abrams at least 3 or 4 times and then the ball was off TA out of bounds.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 09:01 PM   #223
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What knit are you talking about? I don't understand that comment in reference to the quote.
Just saying some people will knit pick on the most obvious statements. You're going to be defending you post all night now.
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Old Jan 5, 2013, 09:05 PM   #224
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Just saying some people will knit pick on the most obvious statements. You're going to be defending you post all night now.
Got you. And you're right. I'll let it go. We won! I am happy.

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Old Jan 5, 2013, 09:12 PM   #225
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John Groce on D.J. Richardson: "..I'm not trading him. I love that kid. Next question."

2:00 mark-


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