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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:21 PM   #1
Dan
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Tuesday night on WDWS they replayed a bit of Monday's John Groce Show.

Groce still raving about Mike Shaw-

* MS was "off the charts" Monday in practice.

* Shaw will be part of the rotation Thursday vs Northwestern.

* Happy how MS came back after Christmas and improved his play in practice.

* Lineups will be determined via the rest of the week's practice.

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Audio: Sports Talk 1-15-13

http://www.illinihq.com/audio/2013-0...k-1-15-13.html
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Eight Is Enough

I've gone over it and over it and over it, and I think I'm pretty certain that it's possible there's a chance that 22-12 (8-10) gets us in the tournament. That's 13-1 non-conference, 8-10 conference, and then a loss in the first round of the BTT.

It's rare for a team with a losing record in their conference to get in, but with the B1G #1 in the RPI, and with our non-con wins over likely protected seeds Gonzaga and Butler, 22-12 is enough.

Maybe even more than enough. With those wins, I could see some crazy scenario where we finish 7-11 in the conference but then win two BTT games and squeak into the tourney at 23-13. Is seven enough?

http://alioneye.com/2013/01/15/slapdash-6/

Last edited by Dan; Jan 16, 2013 at 08:33 AM.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:45 PM   #2
CharlesLawrence
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Tonight on WDWS they replayed a bit of Monday's John Groce Show.

Groce still raving about Mike Shaw-

* MS was "off the charts" Monday in practice.

* Shaw will be part of the rotation Thursday vs Northwestern.

* Happy how MS came back after Christmas and improved his play in practice.

* Lineups will be determined via the rest of the week's practice.
Looks like he will be taking minutes away from TG...I know I probably seem like a TG hater to everyone..but it is year 4 for him, so it is what it is.. I have stated several times that if TG score 12-15 points again, we will be one of the hardest teams in the country to beat... but if he doesn't score and plays how he has for the past 7 games, we become one of the worst teams in the country if he is on the floor... Call it what you want, catch 22, double jeopardy, etc but it is time for him to come off the bench.. I believe it will help him because he doesn't do well under press ( excluding his game winning shot)
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:47 PM   #3
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Glad to see somebody on the team stepping up, maybe this will be a spark to light a fire under the seniors butts.

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:20 PM   #4
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I honestly believe that TG is THE biggest reason we're doing terrible right now. I hope he plays 10-15 minutes per game for the rest of the year. Start Henry and bring MS off the bench.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:22 PM   #5
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Glad to see somebody on the team stepping up, maybe this will be a spark to light a fire under the seniors butts.
It better, we need to turn this around now! If we repeat the the collapse of last year we are doomed not only in regards to making the tourney, but in respect to recruiting as well.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:23 PM   #6
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I honestly believe that TG is THE biggest reason we're doing terrible right now. I hope he plays 10-15 minutes per game for the rest of the year. Start Henry and bring MS off the bench.
That's a bit unfair IMO. I agree that TG isn't playing well, but to say that he's the biggest reason overlooks so many other things. The lack of defense that this team plays, the awful rebounding, the shooting problems they've had for the better part of a month (minus the tOSU game). I realize that TG is part of these problems, but they would still exist to some extent whether he were playing or not.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:34 PM   #7
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Grif has had all the time to get ready for this conference season. It's inexcusable that he doesn't contribute as a SENIOR in the B1G. If he won't make a difference than atleast we can give time to guys that need experience so they can contribute next year.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:45 PM   #8
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I think in part, Griffey just has a broken spirit now that he is struggling. I think that is due to his previous seasons here.

I agree it's time to limit his minutes. His defense was always suspect, but when he was scoring it offset a large share of that. Now he is just causing breakdowns on both ends of the court.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:54 PM   #9
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I think in part, Griffey just has a broken spirit now that he is struggling. I think that is due to his previous seasons here.
Tyler Griffey is a great guy and very skilled, but just isn't very tough physically or mentally and never has been. He came to Illinois not very tough and will leave Illinois not very tough. No coach has fundamentally changed Tyler Griffey's psychology. FWIW, I would bet that he will be very successful in his life and career, but to be a good basketball player at this level requires the kind of toughness that not everyone possesses (or needs for most occupations.)

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:58 PM   #10
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Tyler Griffey is a great guy and very skilled, but just isn't very tough physically or mentally and never has been. He came to Illinois not very tough and will leave Illinois not very tough. No coach has fundamentally changed Tyler Griffey's psychology. FWIW, I would bet that he will be very successful in his life and career, but to be a good basketball player at this level requires the kind of toughness that not everyone possesses (or needs for most occupations.)
I think his comments earlier in the season speak to what I was referring to.

I don't doubt what you are saying, but I thinking certain responses can exacerbate that kind of personality trait and certain responses can make it better. Clearly, Groce was able to turn the tide on it earlier in the season. But now I think he is down on himself again, and I fear part of him not being able to pick it up is his previous experience.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by radiodj View Post
That's a bit unfair IMO. I agree that TG isn't playing well, but to say that he's the biggest reason overlooks so many other things. The lack of defense that this team plays, the awful rebounding, the shooting problems they've had for the better part of a month (minus the tOSU game). I realize that TG is part of these problems, but they would still exist to some extent whether he were playing or not.
You're right, DJ isn't doing so hot either. His win share is actually lower than TG and his PER is only .3 higher.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:18 PM   #12
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I don't doubt what you are saying, but I thinking certain responses can exacerbate that kind of personality trait and certain responses can make it better. Clearly, Groce was able to turn the tide on it earlier in the season. But now I think he is down on himself again, and I fear part of him not being able to pick it up is his previous experience.
But there were times he had shooting success under Weber as well. The difference was that Weber wasn't willing to trade off good shooting for terrible defense and rebounding. Different systems, different priorities.

By the end of last year, Weber was tired of dealing with some of the players and they were tired of hearing what he had to say. A new and different voice gave everyone a boost to start the season. Everyone was enthusiastic about the changes and Groce was still in his coaching honeymoon.

But by midseason, it is remarkable the extent to which the seniors have reverted to form. Paul is too cool for school. DJ has lost his shot. And Griffey has crawled back into his shell.

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:26 PM   #13
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I'm okay with Shaw getting more minutes. Love seeing those arms flailing around everywhere.

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:28 PM   #14
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But there were times he had shooting success under Weber as well. The difference was that Weber wasn't willing to trade off good shooting for terrible defense and rebounding. Different systems, different priorities.

By the end of last year, Weber was tired of dealing with some of the players and they were tired of hearing what he had to say. A new and different voice gave everyone a boost to start the season. Everyone was enthusiastic about the changes and Groce was still in his coaching honeymoon.

But by midseason, it is remarkable the extent to which the seniors have reverted to form. Paul is too cool for school. DJ has lost his shot. And Griffey has crawled back into his shell.
We may not agree on how much the previous regime damaged these guys confidence, but I totally agree with this. It's frightening actually.

Some of it is talent/skills. I think DJ and Griffey are both really limited players. With Paul, I think what HOC has said speaks volumes.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:38 PM   #15
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But there were times he had shooting success under Weber as well. The difference was that Weber wasn't willing to trade off good shooting for terrible defense and rebounding. Different systems, different priorities.

By the end of last year, Weber was tired of dealing with some of the players and they were tired of hearing what he had to say. A new and different voice gave everyone a boost to start the season. Everyone was enthusiastic about the changes and Groce was still in his coaching honeymoon.

But by midseason, it is remarkable the extent to which the seniors have reverted to form. Paul is too cool for school. DJ has lost his shot. And Griffey has crawled back into his shell.
This is really a strange comment.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:48 PM   #16
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Mike Shaw is to offense as Tyler Griffey is to defense.

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:52 PM   #17
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Strange maybe but, to the point. We go as Paul goes. Early in the year he was passing the ball and letting the game come to him. And it did. Even against tOSU he seemed to be patient and getting teammates involved. We looked good and won even while not shooting well from 3. The games we have struggled in, Paul tries to take too much one on one. He tries to be the team instead of getting the team rolling. Just my opinion. But, I don't think we can be successful without Paul playing well and unselfishly.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:59 PM   #18
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Look, when things go bad the blame game gets ridiculous. Tyler has never had the quickness to play effective defense (although there is no lack of effort), and DJ has been off balance when shootung (although he easily was our best player against UW). Brandon had a bad game but has had a great season.

Bottom line--the team has some structural flaws but they are head and shoulders better than last year. It was a consensus opinion that we would win some we shouldn't and lose some we shouldn't. But when it actually starts to happen, too many fans start banging on the players. Stay tuned. It will get better. And if you don't think that the majority of Big Ten coaches wouldn't love to have DJ and Brandon on their teams, you're wrong.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:03 PM   #19
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Mike Shaw is to offense as Tyler Griffey is to defense.
Tyler has 4 points and is 0-11 from 3 in the past 3 games. Mike Shaw might be better offensively and defensively right now.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:03 PM   #20
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Mike Shaw is to offense as Tyler Griffey is to defense.
True! I thought we were going deep bench wise this year? Shaw and Langford deserve PT IMO given our recent struggles in rebounding and overall lack of effort.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:04 PM   #21
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Was Illinois the catalyst or the unfortunate stepping stone for this booming wisconsin team?

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:05 PM   #22
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But there were times he had shooting success under Weber as well. The difference was that Weber wasn't willing to trade off good shooting for terrible defense and rebounding. Different systems, different priorities.

By the end of last year, Weber was tired of dealing with some of the players and they were tired of hearing what he had to say. A new and different voice gave everyone a boost to start the season. Everyone was enthusiastic about the changes and Groce was still in his coaching honeymoon.

But by midseason, it is remarkable the extent to which the seniors have reverted to form. Paul is too cool for school. DJ has lost his shot. And Griffey has crawled back into his shell.
Well said, particularly the last part, unfortunately, especially after our scintillating non-conference success.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:21 PM   #23
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Was Illinois the catalyst or the unfortunate stepping stone for this booming wisconsin team?
This is our specialty (basketball and football)! Make other teams better, bring out career games, bring out players no one has heard of and get them the player of the week honors!
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:24 PM   #24
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I'm okay with Shaw getting more minutes. Love seeing those arms flailing around everywhere.
He really can't be worse then McLaurin. At least he can shoot.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:28 PM   #25
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He really can't be worse then McLaurin. At least he can shoot.
Offensively, potentially. McLovin can grab some Offensive boards though...hopefully Shaw's defensive boards make up for it along with an occassional layup.

Sounds like Shaw, per Groce, is having some good practices. Hopefully he will emerge to be a consistent rebounder/defender and occassional scorer in his limited minutes...we need something from the 4, anything.
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