Michigan State 80, Illinois 75 POSTGAME

[Dan]

John Groce - @ MSU 2013 - postgame.




Myke Henry - @MSU postgame




DJ Richardson - @ MSU postgame




Derrick Nix analyzes Illini big men




Rob McColley

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by UIUC2008

Maybe it wasn't great, but it was still good. Maybe the pace on the offensive side and change of game plan has Paul and DJ a little more gassed on the defensive end. I really don't know. I'm throwing ideas out there. It's just mind boggling how poor our defense is.

BP went from being one of the top defenders in the B1G and a Matto Chart topper to just plain lazy defensively. He's the one, for instance, who ball-watched Appling and left his man Dawson to cut to the basket for that back-breaking alley-oop dunk. He's also very careless with the ball, goes iso way too often and takes some of the quickest and worst shots I've seen an Illini player take. JG looked like he finally had enough of BP's tired act and left him on the bench for long stretches, even down the stretch.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by illinisc

I think our bigs are way too aggressive hedge and switching on ball screens. I don't know if that's what Groce wants out of them but its clearly leaving them out of position.

JG has said it is his strategy, the hedging and the myriad of switches. Truly a curious strategy, though Appling seemed to enjoy taking advantage of it, especially that last drive of his past NE.

[uofiguy]

Bottom line is we got Izzo'd tonight. The refs treated our coach like BT rookie bi&ch. No way half those calls are fouls - they werent in the first half. Why do you think Izzo shook his head when he shook hands with Groce? Cause he knows he got this win handed to him on god damn silver platter. Worst officiating I've ever seen and it completely cost us the game. Sickening.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by PointGuardU01

Play better defense??

+100. Stick with the zone for more than one possession. Switching back to m2m after one possession was BW like.

[Illiniwek_2]

Originally Posted by illinois_hustle

An Illini-ku:

Great first half effort
Daggum guys gave it all back
Slap floor for Wisky!

:laugh:

[bennylava]

Originally Posted by FinalFour88

I don't think Paul is choking. What I think is that he's not willing to work harder once Big Ten season starts and the defense gets more physical and overall better. When things start to get tough, he gets lazy and packs it in.

Pure speculation, but I wonder if he's letting people in his ear about him playing pro ball and he's losing his focus. Not to mention the twitter celebrity probably isn't helping either.

[MTILLINOIS]

Originally Posted by uofiguy

Bottom line is we got Izzo'd tonight. The refs treated our coach like BT rookie bi&ch. No way half those calls are fouls - they werent in the first half. Why do you think Izzo shook his head when he shook hands with Groce? Cause he knows he got this win handed to him on god damn silver platter. Worst officiating I've ever seen and it completely cost us the game. Sickening.

I kept thinking, isn't this the B1G? Not tonight.

[Illiniwek_2]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

BP went from being one of the top defenders in the B1G and a Matto Chart topper to just plain lazy defensively. He's the one, for instance, who ball-watched Appling and left his man Dawson to cut to the basket for that back-breaking alley-oop dunk. He's also very careless with the ball, goes iso way too often and takes some of the quickest and worst shots I've seen an Illini player take. JG looked like he finally had enough of BP's tired act and left him on the bench for long stretches, even down the stretch.

I noticed this too. BP3 looking on from the bench in key stretches.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by RecLeagueHero

You mean good like when they were down 35 to Nebraska?

This group was not that good. Slow foot speed, poor rotations, etc. They have struggled for a long time.

We were not good defensively last year. Two years ago we were solid. Three years ago we weren't good, either. JG's D is a more gambling style defense, looking to knock balls away for steals. Unfortunately we did too much reaching and not enough moving of the feet in the 2nd half after we played a tremendous first half. The first 20:00 was encouraging to watch.

[sugmeister]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

DJ is still a good defender this year and Paul wasn't a good defender last year. Paul can be a great defender when he wants to be but the problem is that he doesn't want to be.

BP was our best defender last yr as well as the yr before and it really wasn't close imo.....

dj has very quick hands but that does no good at all if you can't keep your man in front of you. and dj hasn't kept his man out of the lane for 2 yrs now. he has no lateral quickness.

agree - bp's defense has completely gone to the dogs this yr. its like he doesn't care.

[TooHot4Tots]

I thought the kids played a solid game. But the 2nd half officiating was absolutely brutal. Izzo works officials and changes game. We beat Wisky!!

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

DJ is still a good defender this year and Paul wasn't a good defender last year. Paul can be a great defender when he wants to be but the problem is that he doesn't want to be.

+1. BP was a very good defender as a soph and the first half of his junior year. BW used him as our defensive stopper for awhile. He was pretty good until about the Mizzou game this year, too. He just seems to ball watch and lose his man now and doesn't get those deflections and steals and force TOs like he used to.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by FinalFour88

I must say, I was really impressed by McLaurin tonight. He gives up a lot in terms of talent and athleticism to guys like Payne, but he plays strong. Griffey simply can't hang in the Big Ten; he's in way over his head. Sam at least battles in there and keeps his head above water, so to speak.

SML was very active tonight. TG looked like a guy who had no desire to absorb or initiate physical contact at all. Very meek performance on D. Going to a B1G school was not a good choice in hindsight when you are slow laterally, a slow leaper and don't like to bang in the paint.

[sugmeister]

earlier today I posted that I would like us to shoot 43% overall. check. shoot 30% from 3. check. hold turnovers to under 15. check. thought i would take our chances with those numbers since we haven't done that in like forever.

I guess I didn't count on them shooting 34 FT's and shooting nearly 60% for the game.

encouraging to see the play of Henry really the last 2 games now. he did some good things vs Mich as well. showed some hustle, good def, and confident shooting tonight.

also nice to see TG hit a 15 ft shot and put the ball on the floor and fight on the boards the first half. unfortunately he didn't block out at all 2nd half and deserved his spot on the bench.

I just do not see any progress from Egwu. I want to believe. but 1 reb?? and I still consider him a detriment on def. his shooting has also been off most of the big ten season except that 1 game. still believe he plays more like a 4 than a 5 too.

[cwesince]

Bottom line is this conference exploits our team's weakness and has for several years now. It's obvious our recruiting has really come up short in terms of big men going way back. Think about it...from 2004-2010 we have had only 2 decent post players (Myers Leonard and Shaun Pruitt) and we only got one year from ML. That was Webber's demise and why he couldn't win in the big ten. Luckily, I think Groce can figure out how to get some talent down low and not strike out so much. We have a decent core for the future but we need to red shirt and develop our bigs. That is where we can start to right the ship.

I'm watching Kentucky play 16th ranked Ole Miss the other night and couldn't stop thinking about how much better we would look in another conference. Not many conferences play physical disciplined defense. We would see those open three's our guards saw early in the season, those easy transition fast breaks we used to create, not to mention how much better OUR defense would look (minus the rebounding). If only we could survive the Big 10 and make it to the tourney...

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by FinalFour88

I don't think Paul is choking. What I think is that he's not willing to work harder once Big Ten season starts and the defense gets more physical and overall better. When things start to get tough, he gets lazy and packs it in.

He's also not developed enough in his skill set. Defenders take away his right hand, but he can't counter going to his left. He doesn't move well without the ball to get open for passes and shots, either, and hasn't developed a mid-range game. TA doesn't help him out by driving and kicking out to him for open shots. Plus our bigs don't draw double teams to give him more room to operate, and he doesn't attack the paint much anymore when he has the opportunity. One play late in the game the announcer pointed out how BP pulled up and tried to get a bail-out call instead of taking it strong to the glass when he had the angle to do it. His aversion to contact hurts. And he doesn't use his ball screens to rub his man off and get open shots. TA does a better job of this. BP's not a great outside shooter, either. He's a serviceable scorer who doesn't make his teammates better, and he no longer is a reliable defender, either. We actually looked better in the 2nd half with him on the bench. Wish he could see his time at UI is nearly over and decide to go all-out the rest of the way to close out his career.

[OneTime3]

Paul has to get his !!!! together to save this season - period. He needs to play well or there isn't enough talent on this team to win. I can't remember a game we won where he played like garbage.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by sugmeister

encouraging to see the play of Henry really the last 2 games now. he did some good things vs Mich as well. showed some hustle, good def, and confident shooting tonight.

Tonight he finally showed an interest in playing D and setting good screens, and he hit a couple of 3s. Hopefully he can build on this because TG has been a liability in most games since mid-December, and as hard as SML works he's very limited and has to provide backup mins to NE, too.

NE played poorly on both ends. Amazing we were that close with him struggling like that.

[TooHot4Tots]

Originally Posted by cwesince

Bottom line is this conference exploits our team's weakness and has for several years now. It's obvious our recruiting has really come up short in terms of big men going way back. Think about it...from 2004-2010 we have had only 2 decent post players (Myers Leonard and Shaun Pruitt) and we only got one year from ML. That was Webber's demise and why he couldn't win in the big ten. Luckily, I think Groce can figure out how to get some talent down low and not strike out so much. We have a decent core for the future but we need to red shirt and develop our bigs. That is where we can start to right the ship.

I'm watching Kentucky play 16th ranked Ole Miss the other night and couldn't stop thinking about how much better we would look in another conference. Not many conferences play physical disciplined defense. We woulda me see those open three's our guards saw early in the season, those easy transition fast breaks we used to create, not to mention how much better OUR defense would look (minus the rebounding). If only we could survive the Big 10 and make it to the tourney...

To be honest their post didn't win game. Poor perimeter defense on PG was poor. Any time we out score team from 2pt Fg and 3pt Fg it usually works out well. 2nd half officiating was awful

[sugmeister]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

BP's not a great outside shooter, either. He's a serviceable scorer who doesn't make his teammates better, and he no longer is a reliable defender, either. We actually looked better in the 2nd half with him on the bench. Wish he could see his time at UI is nearly over and decide to go all-out the rest of the way to close out his career.

absolutely.... weber did use him as a lock down guy last yr... and I think his soph and jr years he was the one guy who could take over a game with his defense. I was more than willing to put up with his casual passes, etc when he was creating havoc on D and shutting down the opponents best player.

but that has been gone for a long time now. we are left with the lazy passes and the mind blowing turnovers. since the Missouri game it has gotten much worse imo. I can accept turnovers when you are driving and trying to make things happen. but lately it is pure laziness.

not what NBA dreams are made of.

[scubadunk]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Sounds like MSU hit the "easy button" coming out of the break. Wish I could have seen the game. Maybe better I didn't. Well, nobody should have expected a win tonight. Have to win vs Wisky.

Don't comment if you don't watch

[illinibri92]

Nunn...... Tate...... Morgan.........Rice...........Hill...........and the rest.............

[PointGuardU01]

Originally Posted by OrangeAndBlue217

We arent talking about the last 6 years. We are talking about tonight. Some people on here...

So you think there was a conspiracy tonight? This is serious stuff if true...

[scubadunk]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

+100. Stick with the zone for more than one possession. Switching back to m2m after one possession was BW like.

But we had momentum until we played that one possession of zone. Smart move wrong time.