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Wisconsin 74, Illinois 68 POSTGAME

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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:35 PM   #76
Botb9
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Illinois basketball has been failing(falling) for the better part of 6 years now. Recruiting misses, followed by poor team structure and mental makeup from both the coaching staff and the players has led us where we sit now.

I will say that I will be happy if Brandon Paul doesn't play another minute in an Illini uniform. He lost his starting spot and did very little to show he deserves it back. That's a confirmation of the belief of many that he just doesn't have it mentally. He's become sort of like Sam Maniscalco -- win games for us early in the year, ride the pine in conference. What I want to see is what Myke Henry can do with consistent minutes, whether Devin Langford can improve his shot, and whether Mike Shaw can bring the intensity in his brief few minutes in the last few games to each moment he steps on the floor. Let loose everything and see what you have.

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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:36 PM   #77
Bogieredmond
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Weber's not really the issue right now, but anyone who thinks that KSU's results make Weber a better coach than Groce should check back in 5 years. Weber is winning with Frank Martin's athletes, just like he won with Self's. Look out when he's asked to build a team...

Groce has done everything possible to re-instill confidence in this team, and our games in November and December show what's possible from these guys. But, this group of players collapsed last year, and just don't seem to have the resiliency to come back when something goes wrong. Witness what happened after the ridiculous "restored basket" that Bo pulled off today and Brandon's give-away turnovers against MSU. We get tramautized and that's it.

Psychology is a problem, but so is our defensive scheme. We do not switch assertively and we concede the switch way too easily. The horrible mismatches today that resulted in Abrahms and LaTulip guarding the post were just the latest version of our ineptitude against the high ball screen against Minnesota, MSU, and PU.

if you want to excuse Groce for not making useful adjustements to this, you could argue that we just don't have enough muscle to fight through screens and eliminate these messy switches. But geez, we could zone a little. Defense really is a mentality and in my opinion, players with the physical skills that ours have just shouldn't get beat so easily, one-on-one, off the dribble. HARD TO WATCH.

Last edited by Bogieredmond; Feb 3, 2013 at 05:39 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:37 PM   #78
solbur2
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Originally Posted by Botb9 View Post
Illinois basketball has been failing(falling) for the better part of 6 years now. Recruiting misses, followed by poor team structure and mental makeup from both the coaching staff and the players has led us where we sit now.

I will say that I will be happy if Brandon Paul doesn't play another minute in an Illini uniform. He lost his starting spot and did very little to show he deserves it back. That's a confirmation of the belief of many that he just doesn't have it mentally. He's become sort of like Sam Maniscalco -- win games for us early in the year, ride the pine in conference. What I want to see is what Myke Henry can do with consistent minutes, whether Devin Langford can improve his shot, and whether Mike Shaw can bring the intensity in his brief few minutes in the last few games to each moment he steps on the floor. Let loose everything and see what you have.
Don't be insane
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:42 PM   #79
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Another home loss. Subpar effort defensively again. Mentally weak seniors.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:46 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Botb9 View Post
Illinois basketball has been failing(falling) for the better part of 6 years now. Recruiting misses, followed by poor team structure and mental makeup from both the coaching staff and the players has led us where we sit now.

I will say that I will be happy if Brandon Paul doesn't play another minute in an Illini uniform. He lost his starting spot and did very little to show he deserves it back. That's a confirmation of the belief of many that he just doesn't have it mentally. He's become sort of like Sam Maniscalco -- win games for us early in the year, ride the pine in conference. What I want to see is what Myke Henry can do with consistent minutes, whether Devin Langford can improve his shot, and whether Mike Shaw can bring the intensity in his brief few minutes in the last few games to each moment he steps on the floor. Let loose everything and see what you have.
Dude Sam was injured and had a ton of heart and game sense without BP's ability. I wish BP had Sam's heart and desire then he would be a stud but unfortunatly that is not the case
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:48 PM   #81
jmm44
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Are people really saying we won't win another game for the rest of the season? I know it's hard to be optimistic, but you guys are overreacting way too much to this loss. If we can just win one of the games we aren't supposed to (and I still think we can), our tourny hopes will be back. And I'll be shocked if we lose every game for the rest of the season, we're not going to lose to Purdue, Nebraska, PSU, AND Northwestern. I'm not predicting we make the tourny, but I don't think the season is over.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:48 PM   #82
LouAlcinder
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Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Groce: Comes down to that 2nd half defense again.

Groce: Today it was off-ball screens. We're not very good defensively right now. Disappointing as it's the month of February.

Groce: Our defense has too many holes in it right now to be effective in this league.
Play zone, 2-3, 1-3-1, whatever. No more getting caught on screens with our $hitty man defense. TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

Definition of insanity....
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:51 PM   #83
illinicardinalfan2
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Originally Posted by chief78 View Post
Typical response from you.......are you really serious? Don't bother answering...........
Well its not the far fetched to ask man. Who cares what kind of talent anybody thinks we have. The results are pretty obvious. Take like the last 25 or so BigTen games we've played and I doubt anybody is worse minus Penn St
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:53 PM   #84
illinicardinalfan2
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Originally Posted by LouAlcinder View Post
Play zone, 2-3, 1-3-1, whatever. No more getting caught on screens with our $hitty man defense. TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

Definition of insanity....
Well we've tried zone and it makes us even more lazy if that's possible. You can't throw out that he won't play a zone cause we have played zones.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:02 PM   #85
Railsplitter
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Originally Posted by Botb9 View Post
Illinois basketball has been failing(falling) for the better part of 6 years now. Recruiting misses, followed by poor team structure and mental makeup from both the coaching staff and the players has led us where we sit now.

I will say that I will be happy if Brandon Paul doesn't play another minute in an Illini uniform. He lost his starting spot and did very little to show he deserves it back. That's a confirmation of the belief of many that he just doesn't have it mentally. He's become sort of like Sam Maniscalco -- win games for us early in the year, ride the pine in conference. What I want to see is what Myke Henry can do with consistent minutes, whether Devin Langford can improve his shot, and whether Mike Shaw can bring the intensity in his brief few minutes in the last few games to each moment he steps on the floor. Let loose everything and see what you have.
This +800000000000000000 thank you.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:17 PM   #86
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Coach Groce is doing and changing to make this team better just like when we played non confrence the difference is attitude and play of players. we are not making shots like we did before and they are more laid back. that's a mental thing and that's how when Groce recruits his layers it will change because they will play hard all the time. His players will also run his offense and defense like it should be ran. Groce is also way better recruiter than most other coaches in my opinion so people trying to blame Groce just wait a couple of years as Groce builds up this program to a elite level and gets top recruits
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:20 PM   #87
CrazedUIFan
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This defense just gets worse every game and I think the entire team is to blame, staff and players.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:22 PM   #88
lad919
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And I agree with people saying that we need a sports psychologist to come in and do some evaluation.
How is this going to help anything? There's barely a month left in the season and suddenly someone is going to come in and speak words of magic and change the attitudes of players that have been on the team for 4 years?
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:24 PM   #89
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i would like to see Bertrand start the rest of the year and Myke Henry to take minutes from Griffey and see Langford and Shaw gets some minutes but not were it will make us lose a game
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:26 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Illini70math View Post

4. The thing that has really started to concern me is our defense, and particularly our defensive system. Many of the headscratcher stats on defense for us are a direct result of mismatches on switches. At some point our coaches need to understand that having small guys guarding big guys and big guys guarding small guys doesn't work very well in the B1G. B1G coaches are simply too good. They will exploit that until you stop doing it. A lot of our fouls are a result of this switching problem as well.
I agree. I've never seen it work on any level. It didn't work when I was in 5th grade and it sure as heck isn't going to work in the B1G.

My question... Has anyone in the media asked Groce directly about this or asked him to discuss his philosophy when it comes to switching ball screens? I'd love to hear his answer.

Not bashing the guy, I like him. But curious minds want to know.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:28 PM   #91
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Groce: Our defense has too many holes in it right now to be effective in this league.
Translation: Our talent level and enthusiasm is inadequate to compete effectively in this league.

I agree. For those of you trying to drown Groce, these are not his kids. You simply cannot go nuts on a coach that is playing with the debris our previous coaches accumulated (see also Beckman). If we are still seeing this in 24 months in both sports THEN it will be time to get rid of Thomas and his hires. Right now, it is unreasonable to be heaping blame on them IMO.

I think the 4-6 Big Ten wins isn't looking so ridiculous right now. I just am unsure about which is more likely the 4 end or the 6 end of the range.

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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:29 PM   #92
PaytonHighstep
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Thought it would be a battle to win this but would have hoped we would be more competitive. Don't think we really have any answers to turn this around at this point. Gotta give PT to those who fight and bench those playing half-assed. It really is our only hope going forward.
Agreed. from my point of view that is the worst coaching decision he has made this year. they switch every screen, instead of fighting through. I just feel that is lazy bball.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:33 PM   #93
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I'm so sick of these seniors.

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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:37 PM   #94
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At some point, watching sports is supposed to be fun. Watching Illini sports is truly agonizing, over and over. Why the hell do we do this to ourselves?

I would pay so much money to take a "Don't care about Illini sports anymore" pill. Someone invent that.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:51 PM   #95
solbur2
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At some point, watching sports is supposed to be fun. Watching Illini sports is truly agonizing, over and over. Why the hell do we do this to ourselves?

I would pay so much money to take a "Don't care about Illini sports anymore" pill. Someone invent that.
in the lab as we speak
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:52 PM   #96
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:57 PM   #97
alexander58
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Yea that's why we lost the game today. I don't like the switches but this team is pathetic and it was inherited by the worst coach in the country. Bruce Weber. Kansas State sure has a bright future. LOL
If you need to blame someone,place blame where it belongs. Kansas State is doing just fine.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:59 PM   #98
Illinipopo
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Originally Posted by Illini70math View Post
9 Observations from the Wisky Game:

1. This was a very disappointing game in profound ways. Frankly, it is hard to see how we turn the season around from here. Something has to change, and there doesn't seem much time to do it.

2. On the plus side, Nnanna does continue to make progress. He is far from polished, but he is showing some real potential. That said, he is not as effective as I think he should be, because he is constantly out of position defensively. Unfortunately, that seems to be our scheme.

3. The other guy who showed some spark was obviously Joe Bertrand. His burst into the lane for the floater is close to unstoppable. Why hasn't this been a major factor in our offense? It's not like we've never seen it before. Half of our set plays should be designed to get JB into position for that floater.

4. The thing that has really started to concern me is our defense, and particularly our defensive system. Many of the headscratcher stats on defense for us are a direct result of mismatches on switches. At some point our coaches need to understand that having small guys guarding big guys and big guys guarding small guys doesn't work very well in the B1G. B1G coaches are simply too good. They will exploit that until you stop doing it. A lot of our fouls are a result of this switching problem as well.

5. I would like to think that our scoring 44 points in the second half was a positive sign, but I wonder whether we will actually see a consistent improvement. For much of the first half, the offense seemed little better than the defense. We can blame it on the refs, but when we drive into a crowd in the B1G, we are simply not getting enough calls.

6. The game was not as close as the final score. We were never really in it from the end of the first half. The only real question was what the final score would be.

7. Coach Groce needs to learn that time and situation apply to getting technicals as well play on the court. We got lucky on the free throws, but his fit at the end of the first half should have cost us two points and the ball -- we did lose the possession. I am a bit concerned that Groce will get a rep if he keeps getting technicals, but only time will tell. The refs did make some odd calls, but that is B1G basketball. When you foul like we do, you don't get many breaks.

8. Not to beat a dead horse, but when Kaminsky and Brust go for 19 and 20 points against our defense, we are in terrible shape. This isn't talent. This is failure to play disciplined defense, but also I question our whole defensive scheme against a team like Wisky.

9. Well, we can play loose from here on out because our season is probably about over. It is not just that we lost, but how we lost that concerns me. Who knows, maybe we can suddenly wake up and play some good basketball against IU.

Go Illini!
It's pretty simple. This team isn't a Big Ten caliber team. Your observations were..... Nevermind.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 07:05 PM   #99
illinicardinalfan2
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Originally Posted by bigillinfan11 View Post
Coach Groce is doing and changing to make this team better just like when we played non confrence the difference is attitude and play of players. we are not making shots like we did before and they are more laid back. that's a mental thing and that's how when Groce recruits his layers it will change because they will play hard all the time. His players will also run his offense and defense like it should be ran. Groce is also way better recruiter than most other coaches in my opinion so people trying to blame Groce just wait a couple of years as Groce builds up this program to a elite level and gets top recruits
Good recruiters not only sign the 5* player every so often but can also evaluate and determine how those kids 40-100 will be in 2-3 years. Henson,Kruger, and Self all were good at finding the good players ranked 40-100. Weber was flat out horrible. Either that or he has zero player improvement. Whatever it was there needs to be some big time soul searching in the guys who MIGHT be back next year.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 07:06 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by BoolahBoolah View Post
I would pay so much money to take a "Don't care about Illini sports anymore" pill. Someone invent that.
An Illini friend of mine has some friends that are MSU grads and neither could give two dumps about sports. My buddy is always a little jealous of that. We all often wish we didn't care.

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