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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:02 AM   #176
douglascountyillinifan
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
1. The University of Illinois has LOTS of fans who are professional marketers, because they critique every promotion that DIA tries.

We aren't. And neither are the people pointing out the awkward promotion on national sites like Deadspin and Yahoo.

2. Pederasty is apparently best practiced in front of 16000 people and a national tv audience.

Missing the point entirely.

3. I can no longer call any of my children my valentine, let alone hug them after one of the greatest triumphs of my career, because it's apparently creepy.

Missing the point entirely.

4. I will never understand the need to seek out the negative.

Missing the point entirely. Illini fans aren't seeking it out. It's being pointed out by national media like Deadspin and Yahoo.

It's not about how we perceive it. We know what it is and what was intended. It's a great picture. It doesn't mean it was a good idea to use it in that context. The people in marketing at UI need to have an awareness of what they are sending out to the public and in this case, as innocent as we know the image is, they completely dropped the ball. In this world you cannot simply worry about what you like. You have to imagine how the outside world will perceive it. You have to anticipate feedback both positive and negative. Ball = dropped

CHL, you miss my point entirely. It was Groces' son, it was in front of 16000 people, it was on national tv, and there are people who twist every narrative to the negative. The two "national media" sources you cite aren't exactly, nor do they pretend to be, bastions of journalistic integrity. I went to deadspin's page and couldn't even find a reference to this "outrageous" ticket promotion. I did, however, find an article about a news anchor inadvertently pantomiming oral sex and another one about exactly how many images of naked women can be found on the internet. I have great respect for your opinions in general, but I think we'll have to disagree on this one.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:20 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by carmelillini View Post
This was a great pic that should be just that. To cheapen it by using for some hokey VD promotion just shows another example of poor marketing decisions by athletic dept.
I'm thinking you shouldn't abbreviate Valentine's Day in that manner.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:31 AM   #178
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I'm thinking you shouldn't abbreviate Valentine's Day in that manner.
No wonder my gf dumped me when I asked if she liked the VD gift I gave her!
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:32 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
No, I vehemently disagree. It was a very bad decision. To us die-hard Illini fans who know exactly what that picture is and the story behind it, sure, we get it. I still don't like it, but I at least understand it.

To every single other person who doesn't know the story behind that photo it looks really terrible and makes the UI look painfully stupid.

Just an awful decision. Great picture, terrible usage.
Isn't that who the promotion would be directed towards? I mean, I doubt that the UofI DIA included many Penn State alums on their mailing list. Agree with whomever said that is our coach and his son...if it were some random kid, then I would have an issue with it. Some people are so freaking sensitive anymore.

Besides, according to the Paterno report, this would only be disconcerting if the UofI was playing against a bunch of Sanduskies. Remember, Penn State and the Paterno's are not accepting any blame for the horrendous crimes that were committed without anyone's knowledge..... :rolleyes:

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Old Feb 15, 2013, 09:43 AM   #180
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Illinois will not apologize to the PC Police (aka Deadspin) for the promotion.



Quote:
Illinois advertisement for Penn State game garners negative publicity

"It was a very quick turnaround," Brown said of the advertisement's conception. "There was a number of us who certainly saw it, and I don't think anyone's apologizing for the ad. A week ago, that picture was lauded for a possible sports photo of the year. ... The fact that some people interpreted it as anything other than that is very unfortunate."

http://www.dailyillini.com/sports/me...9bb30f31a.html
Quote:
Promotional use of Illini photo sparks controversy

Brown said Illinois has yet to receive criticism from fans regarding the advertisement.

"I think the people who saw that certainly saw a strong photo that was very popular after last week's game," Brown affirmed. "That's all there is to it."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...day-photograph
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 10:19 AM   #181
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The Deadspin story says hat tip to Matt. Who is this Matt? Who agrees that he should be found and punched in the face?
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 10:37 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by wpr View Post
So then national Media outlets should actually do some research before they talk about something for which they don't have all the facts.

Oh wait that would be actual journalism and require them to do some reporting.
Sure, but there's the ideal world we want, then there's the real world we have. You have to plan and account for the real world. It doesn't mean your point isn't without merit. I'd prefer it weren't an issue, but it is whether we like it or not. Is it really all that important? Not really. The larger point here is the UI needs to be smarter about things like this.

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Isn't that who the promotion would be directed towards? I mean, I doubt that the UofI DIA included many Penn State alums on their mailing list.
This point was already addressed, but to reiterate, yes, it was only intended for Illini fans. But in this day and age things go viral in a matter of hours, even minutes and the image that we all interpret as one thing will be interpreted in an entirely different matter by those outside the intended target. Like it or not, that's the reality.

The DIA can defend their promotion all they want -- why would they admit a mistake? -- but it won't change the perception of the image by the outside world. It was a bad decision whether they want to admit it publicly or not. If they are not admitting to themselves internally that it probably was a poor choice then I'd have to question their judgment. Their job is marketing and publicity and public relations and protecting and enhancing the image of U of I athletics and in this particular case they failed. Again, whether we like it or not.

And to me it has nothing to do with PSU. I don't even care about PSU. It was just a bad choice in general, regardless of opponent.

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Old Feb 15, 2013, 10:56 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgen View Post
I agree with you, CHL, in that everyone should error on the side of caution when it comes to emailing, texting, posting, marketing anything...anticipating how it could be perceived by others.

But still, at some point you also have to realize that there are people out there who are literally looking for anything to raise a red flag about...and if you tried to compensate for their sensitivity, then nobody could do anything. To most people I have talked to, this is being blown WAY out of proportion and taken completely out of context by those in the media who make a living out of making a scene of things. To me, that is what's wrong and the idiots in the media are the ones who should be lambasted over this.
^^^^ This ^^^^^

Context is everything. Most people seeing this will not realize that this is Groce with his son. Once you have that bit of information, it is not creepy at all. Most will not have benefit of this when they first see it. I did not have benefit of this information when I first saw it and wondered what was going on. It was not a good idea to do this.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:00 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue View Post
^^^^ This ^^^^^

Context is everything. Most people seeing this will not realize that this is Groce with his son. Once you have that bit of information, it is not creepy at all. Most will not have benefit of this when they first see it. I did not have benefit of this information when I first saw it and wondered what was going on. It was not a good idea to do this.
Lol so you're saying most people wouldn't know that that's John Groce's son? That seems pretty obvious to me. Would people just think John Groce picked up a random kid to scream at?

This is a non-issue that people looking for website hits made an issue.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:00 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
Sure, but there's the ideal world we want, then there's the real world we have. You have to plan and account for the real world. It doesn't mean your point isn't without merit. I'd prefer it weren't an issue, but it is whether we like it or not. Is it really all that important? Not really. The larger point here is the UI needs to be smarter about things like this.



This point was already addressed, but to reiterate, yes, it was only intended for Illini fans. But in this day and age things go viral in a matter of hours, even minutes and the image that we all interpret as one thing will be interpreted in an entirely different matter by those outside the intended target. Like it or not, that's the reality.

The DIA can defend their promotion all they want -- why would they admit a mistake? -- but it won't change the perception of the image by the outside world. It was a bad decision whether they want to admit it publicly or not. If they are not admitting to themselves internally that it probably was a poor choice then I'd have to question their judgment. Their job is marketing and publicity and public relations and protecting and enhancing the image of U of I athletics and in this particular case they failed. Again, whether we like it or not.

And to me it has nothing to do with PSU. I don't even care about PSU. It was just a bad choice in general, regardless of opponent.
whether sending out that ad was poor judgement or not, I like the response from DIA. basically say it's a non-issue and drop it.

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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:01 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Magoo2 View Post
Isn't that who the promotion would be directed towards?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
This point was already addressed, but to reiterate, yes, it was only intended for Illini fans. But in this day and age things go viral in a matter of hours, even minutes and the image that we all interpret as one thing will be interpreted in an entirely different matter by those outside the intended target. Like it or not, that's the reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue View Post
Context is everything. Most people seeing this will not realize that this is Groce with his son. Once you have that bit of information, it is not creepy at all. Most will not have benefit of this when they first see it. I did not have benefit of this information when I first saw it and wondered what was going on. It was not a good idea to do this.
Agree, with the internet and social media, you can try to "target" a group, but you also have to be aware that it's likely to be seen by a far, far wider audience. Most will not notice it or care unless you give them a reason to, like this.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 11:18 AM   #187
bleedsorangenblue
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Originally Posted by lstewart53x3 View Post
Lol so you're saying most people wouldn't know that that's John Groce's son? That seems pretty obvious to me. Would people just think John Groce picked up a random kid to scream at?

This is a non-issue that people looking for website hits made an issue.
I immediately jumped to the conclusion that it was probably his son but I didn't even know if he had a son. The picture really looks like he is about to bite his head off and way over the top. Again, context is everything. Great in context but odd out of context. It is such a strong image that it takes a second or two to digest.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:14 PM   #188
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I immediately jumped to the conclusion that it was probably his son but I didn't even know if he had a son. The picture really looks like he is about to bite his head off and way over the top. Again, context is everything. Great in context but odd out of context. It is such a strong image that it takes a second or two to digest.
Yeah i probably wouldn't have chosen that picture for the valentines day promo, but I think it's a stretch for someone to look at that and think: child abuse!
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:16 PM   #189
AEX
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Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue View Post
I immediately jumped to the conclusion that it was probably his son but I didn't even know if he had a son. The picture really looks like he is about to bite his head off and way over the top. Again, context is everything. Great in context but odd out of context. It is such a strong image that it takes a second or two to digest.
This is where I'm at. I don't think the picture suggests anything inappropriate, even if you don't know much about Groce, whether he has kids, etc. I just think it's a poorly chosen picture for a Valentine's promotion, primarily because it depicts an intense celebration and that intensity just doesn't lend itself well to the Valentine's theme.

Edit: or in other words, I'm with lstewart.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:17 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by AEX View Post
This is where I'm at. I don't think the picture suggests anything inappropriate, even if you don't know much about Groce, whether he has kids, etc. I just think it's a poorly chosen picture for a Valentine's promotion, primarily because it depicts an intense celebration and that intensity just doesn't lend itself well to the Valentine's theme.

Edit: or in other words, I'm with lstewart.
Yep, this is exactly my thinking as well.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:20 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
Sure, but there's the ideal world we want, then there's the real world we have. You have to plan and account for the real world. It doesn't mean your point isn't without merit. I'd prefer it weren't an issue, but it is whether we like it or not. Is it really all that important? Not really. The larger point here is the UI needs to be smarter about things like this.



This point was already addressed, but to reiterate, yes, it was only intended for Illini fans. But in this day and age things go viral in a matter of hours, even minutes and the image that we all interpret as one thing will be interpreted in an entirely different matter by those outside the intended target. Like it or not, that's the reality.

The DIA can defend their promotion all they want -- why would they admit a mistake? -- but it won't change the perception of the image by the outside world. It was a bad decision whether they want to admit it publicly or not. If they are not admitting to themselves internally that it probably was a poor choice then I'd have to question their judgment. Their job is marketing and publicity and public relations and protecting and enhancing the image of U of I athletics and in this particular case they failed. Again, whether we like it or not.

And to me it has nothing to do with PSU. I don't even care about PSU. It was just a bad choice in general, regardless of opponent.
That's your opinion that it was a bad decision. I vehemently disagree that the original ad was a bad decision and I think the DIA response was entirely appropriate.

You really think this has nothing to do with Penn State? This would be a non-issue if it were, say, Nebraska, and should be a non-issue even though it's PSU. I'm glad we're not cowering to the PC police on this.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:36 PM   #192
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That's your opinion that it was a bad decision. I vehemently disagree that the original ad was a bad decision and I think the DIA response was entirely appropriate.

You really think this has nothing to do with Penn State? This would be a non-issue if it were, say, Nebraska, and should be a non-issue even though it's PSU. I'm glad we're not cowering to the PC police on this.
I have to agree here. There are a few things about this for me:

1.) If you look at HCJG it is pretty obvious (maybe not at first, but pretty quickly) that he is excited and in a celebratory mood, not anger. There is nothing in this picture suggesting anything remotely close to child abuse, or anything of the like.

2.) IF there are some who want to take offense at that picture because of the problems that Penn State had with their football program, that is entirely on THEM, not on the U of I.

3.) Do I think that U of I was trying to "capitalize" on the Penn State scandal? Not a chance:

a) How can a different institution "capitalize" on it? "By saying, come to our basketball game because we are playing the school whose football team allowed horrendous things to happen!"? There is no logic in that at all.

b) I am 99.99% sure that NO DIA or booster at UI or PSU want the subject brought up at all. It is a blemish on NCAA athletics and not something that will ever be dropped if people keep bringing it up and finding things to associate with that situation.

4.) What I see is a promotional poster showing UI's fired up coach after a great win. I see excitement in him, and since his son removed his shirt at the win, I am pretty sure the son was pleased.

5.) About those who have a problem with it, I think that is entirely on THEM. I think there is NO SERIOUS way to correlate the two, and anyone who does, is seriously reaching.

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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:40 PM   #193
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This is a non-issue that people looking for website hits made an issue.
I am pretty sure you hit it on the head, Stewart.

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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:52 PM   #194
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4.) What I see is a promotional poster showing UI's fired up coach after a great win. I see excitement in him, and since his son removed his shirt at the win, I am pretty sure the son was pleased.
IIR, the boys (3 of the coaches sons.) had their chests painted to form "I-L-L" on their chests just like the big guys do.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:54 PM   #195
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this is how i feel about anyone that thinks this promo is inappropriate

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Old Feb 15, 2013, 12:59 PM   #196
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That's your opinion that it was a bad decision. I vehemently disagree that the original ad was a bad decision and I think the DIA response was entirely appropriate.
My opinion as well as many others. I'm not alone here. I didn't say the DIA response was inappropriate. It was exactly what I would expect it to be. What they are saying in a closed room I am guessing is a bit different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogey99 View Post
You really think this has nothing to do with Penn State? This would be a non-issue if it were, say, Nebraska, and should be a non-issue even though it's PSU. I'm glad we're not cowering to the PC police on this.
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And to me it has nothing to do with PSU. I don't even care about PSU. It was just a bad choice in general, regardless of opponent.
Cowering to the PC police? What does that even mean? It's not about being politically correct. It's about being smart in your marketing and not putting yourself in an unnecessary, potentially embarrassing situation. No one would expect the UI to come out and start apologizing. No need to. The important thing is they understand it was a mistake -- and it was -- and use it to make better decisions in the future.

I don't think anyone is saying do not use that great picture. Rather, they are saying use it more wisely. That is the bigger issue wrt the UI. There's nothing inherently wrong with the promotion. But you have to be able to stand back and look at your work objectively and imagine how it will be perceived.

Intent does not matter when perception is King.

And so I am done. No need to keep making the same point. Sorry.

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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:30 PM   #197
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Even some of the local media has called it a odd choice and bad choice of a picture for the ad. Lon Tay and Jeremy Werner even said it was a odd choice on their show yesterday. So even die hard local guys understand the ball was dropped on this.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:32 PM   #198
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My opinion as well as many others. I'm not alone here. I didn't say the DIA response was inappropriate. It was exactly what I would expect it to be. What they are saying in a closed room I am guessing is a bit different.





Cowering to the PC police? What does that even mean? It's not about being politically correct. It's about being smart in your marketing and not putting yourself in an unnecessary, potentially embarrassing situation. No one would expect the UI to come out and start apologizing. No need to. The important thing is they understand it was a mistake -- and it was -- and use it to make better decisions in the future.

I don't think anyone is saying do not use that great picture. Rather, they are saying use it more wisely. That is the bigger issue wrt the UI. There's nothing inherently wrong with the promotion. But you have to be able to stand back and look at your work objectively and imagine how it will be perceived.

Intent does not matter when perception is King.

And so I am done. No need to keep making the same point. Sorry.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:36 PM   #199
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Even some of the local media has called it a odd choice and bad choice of a picture for the ad. Lon Tay and Jeremy Werner even said it was a odd choice on their show yesterday. So even die hard local guys understand the ball was dropped on this.
OF COURSE it was a bad choice. I don't think there was any malicious or even inappropriate intent, but to say this ad wasn't poorly put together is as myopic as the ad itself. Do I have a problem with it? Not really -- I understand the context. Would I approve this advertisement if I was in charge of marketing? 0% chance.
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Old Feb 15, 2013, 01:38 PM   #200
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I don't think anyone is saying do not use that great picture. Rather, they are saying use it more wisely. That is the bigger issue wrt the UI. There's nothing inherently wrong with the promotion. But you have to be able to stand back and look at your work objectively and imagine how it will be perceived.
Baffled that posters are missing this point.
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