Go Back   Fighting Illini Forums > Sports > Fighting Illini Basketball

2017 Coaching Carousel

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Today, 01:14 PM   #6476
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Posts: 12,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by NunnBetter View Post
Other than a little stretch in 2000-2005 who really has?
Lou Henson from 1983-1989
WesterveltVictoryCigar is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:33 PM   #6477
illini8507
illini8507's Avatar
Posts: 4,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkLongandProsper View Post
By no means am I saying that nobody has developed under Groce (although Mav still struggles rebounding and defensively though, both of which were issues when he got here), but outside of MH and MM, not a whole lot to write home about, which is an issue. MH and MM have become really nice B10 players.
Rayvonte Rice.
Nnanna Egwu.

__________________
illini8507 is online now Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:53 PM   #6478
illini8507
illini8507's Avatar
Posts: 4,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkLongandProsper View Post
What development did Nnanna make besides not fouling, exactly? His per40 in basically every category was identical all four years.

Ray added a 3 point shot, you can choose to credit that to Groce if you'd like, sorta a stretch though. Didn't really add much else. And if we're going to include Ray Rice, then MT's lack of development counts as well, as they were both here for 2 years, as well as Starks'/Cosby's regression compared to their previous stops.
Egwu's defensive development should absolutely be a credit to this staff. Look at how much worse our defense has been the past 2 seasons since his graduation. Nnanna masked a lot of other players deficiencies with his help in the paint. It was unfortunate he had hands of stone, but he was the anchor of a very good defensive squad for 3 years.

Of course you can count starks and Cosby, no one said you couldn't. MT is a shell of himself, though. I don't think you can hold that against the staff. Getting in shape with his diabetes is difficult enough, but then throwing in a meniscus tear to a guy who was already 23 years old, and then blaming the staff for lack of development? Come on man. I want a new coach as much as everyone else, but let's not make up ridiculous things to blame on this staff.

__________________
illini8507 is online now Reply With Quote
Old Today, 02:25 PM   #6479
gibb52
Posts: 1,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by NunnBetter View Post
He coached from 75 to 96. Took 8 years to get to what people here expect?
Harry Combs 1947-1967
gibb52 is online now Reply With Quote
Old Today, 02:39 PM   #6480
Calvin
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by NunnBetter View Post
He coached from 75 to 96. Took 8 years to get to what people here expect?
I wouldn't confuse goals and expectations. Studies show that the best goals should be achievable, but also challenging, somewhere in the neighborhood of 50% is often cited. Too low, and there's not that sense of challenge and excitement and motivation. Too high, and it's too easy to give up. There's no doubt you can come up with very high goals or lame ones, depending on the timeline and how you attribute causality to Illinois's success. Whitman has been careful (as far as I know) to talk in very general terms about Illinois basketball but it's hard to believe the off-court problems and on-court lack of success is acceptable. Here's a discussion from a year ago that I think is worth a re-read:

http://www.thechampaignroom.com/2016...ching-decision

If that analysis has any weight, it seems to me that Whitman wouldn't be much of an AD to let this go yet another year. The fanbase has been neglected for a while now, and they're harder to bring back than maintain. I just don't see how anyone can justify the continuing decline in attendance, enthusiasm, and overall revenue that we've been running on through the Groce years. He's got to turn it around, or his seat is going to get hot as well. I think he's smart to not get too far ahead of the fanbase, and that may have been the case last year. This year, I have a really hard time believing Groce can hold on to any of the goodwill he's frittered away. My guess is that he's in overdrive right now, and we will see quick action once the timing is right. But that's pure speculation on my part.
Calvin is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:05 PM   #6481
combes
Posts: 4,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb52 View Post
Harry Combs 1947-1967
Combes.
combes is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:19 PM   #6482
DudeIllini
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ga65 View Post
OK with me. Believe it is possible- no great team. Not betting on it though, wonder what the odds would be.
We're 4.5 pt underdogs vs Nebraska..I'm guessing the odds aren't great.
DudeIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:28 PM   #6483
alaskaillini
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini8507 View Post
Egwu's defensive development should absolutely be a credit to this staff. Look at how much worse our defense has been the past 2 seasons since his graduation. Nnanna masked a lot of other players deficiencies with his help in the paint. It was unfortunate he had hands of stone, but he was the anchor of a very good defensive squad for 3 years.

Of course you can count starks and Cosby, no one said you couldn't. MT is a shell of himself, though. I don't think you can hold that against the staff. Getting in shape with his diabetes is difficult enough, but then throwing in a meniscus tear to a guy who was already 23 years old, and then blaming the staff for lack of development? Come on man. I want a new coach as much as everyone else, but let's not make up ridiculous things to blame on this staff.
I am not advocating for Groce to be retained. That decision rests with JW and I expect him to do what is best for the school and the program. But I believe Groce deserves respect. Interpreting every fact to put him in a bad light and blaming everything possible on him is disrespectful and just plain wrong.

With respect to Cosby, I have often wondered whether his shooting problems weren't related to his detached retina. He was a 40% plus shooter and by all accounts was excellent in his redshirt year here. Just thinking that this problem could have started before it was diagnosed and treated - it would explain a lot. Coaching usually doesn't result in a player becoming a far worse 3pt shooter.
alaskaillini is online now Reply With Quote
Old Today, 05:39 PM   #6484
Golfer63
Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaillini View Post
I am not advocating for Groce to be retained. That decision rests with JW and I expect him to do what is best for the school and the program. But I believe Groce deserves respect. Interpreting every fact to put him in a bad light and blaming everything possible on him is disrespectful and just plain wrong.

With respect to Cosby, I have often wondered whether his shooting problems weren't related to his detached retina. He was a 40% plus shooter and by all accounts was excellent in his redshirt year here. Just thinking that this problem could have started before it was diagnosed and treated - it would explain a lot. Coaching usually doesn't result in a player becoming a far worse 3pt shooter.
Great point.

As painful as it will be to see, it is very likely that Groce will go back to being an assistant and dynamite recruiter just like he was at tOSU, then he will eventually work his way back to a P5 job, having learned from his mistakes here, and go on to a successful career.

And to those saying Weber is so much better than Groce, sure Weber may be a better coach than Groce now, but it is very clear that Groce has a much higher ceiling as a coach than Weber ever had.
Golfer63 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:22 PM   #6485
illini8507
illini8507's Avatar
Posts: 4,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskaillini View Post
I am not advocating for Groce to be retained. That decision rests with JW and I expect him to do what is best for the school and the program. But I believe Groce deserves respect. Interpreting every fact to put him in a bad light and blaming everything possible on him is disrespectful and just plain wrong.

With respect to Cosby, I have often wondered whether his shooting problems weren't related to his detached retina. He was a 40% plus shooter and by all accounts was excellent in his redshirt year here. Just thinking that this problem could have started before it was diagnosed and treated - it would explain a lot. Coaching usually doesn't result in a player becoming a far worse 3pt shooter.
Agreed with the first paragraph.

Wrt cosby, he shot pretty poorly his entire season here, but it was halfway through the season or so before he got poked and tore his retina IIRC

__________________
illini8507 is online now Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:32 PM   #6486
roger murdock
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfer63 View Post
Great point

And to those saying Weber is so much better than Groce, sure Weber may be a better coach than Groce now, but it is very clear that Groce has a much higher ceiling as a coach than Weber ever had.
Do do remember Weber coached the '05 team, right?
roger murdock is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:35 PM   #6487
illini8507
illini8507's Avatar
Posts: 4,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger murdock View Post
Do do remember Weber coached the '05 team, right?
With a team full of guys he didn't recruit, and then failed to capitalize on it in regards to recruiting. He is successfully trashing KState too

__________________
illini8507 is online now Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:45 PM   #6488
roger murdock
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini8507 View Post
With a team full of guys he didn't recruit, and then failed to capitalize on it in regards to recruiting. He is successfully trashing KState too
Sadly, not unlike Groce's tenure here. There are more complete coaches out there than both Groce and Weber.
roger murdock is offline Reply With Quote
Old Today, 07:48 PM   #6489
gibb52
Posts: 1,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by combes View Post
Combes.
Good catch
gibb52 is online now Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Fighting Illini Basketball | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Forum Jump