2012 White Sox

[illinois_hustle]

Yesterday was tough -- up 3-0 to KC after knowing the Tigers had lost already and can't get it done. A big opportunity missed.

Detroit has an obscenely easy schedule the rest of the way. It's simple; the Sox are going to have to play better ball than they have been to win this thing.

[IlliniRunIn07]

Today is a huge day. 1.5 games up. Detroit has a double header today so we could be 3 games up up at wpbest or tied at worst at the end of the day. The Sox still control their own destiny though. With a week and a half to go, they need to get their stuff together and just win.

[FeelYourPaign]

Originally Posted by IlliniRunIn07

Today is a huge day. 1.5 games up. Detroit has a double header today so we could be 3 games up up at wpbest or tied at worst at the end of the day. The Sox still control their own destiny though. With a week and a half to go, they need to get their stuff together and just win.

I thought that the makeup doubleheader was on Sunday, but regardless the point is the same. The Sox need to win to go to the playoffs.

[IlliniRunIn07]

Originally Posted by FeelYourPaign

I thought that the makeup doubleheader was on Sunday, but regardless the point is the same. The Sox need to win to go to the playoffs.

Oops, it is tomorrow.

[ChiSoxIllini82]

This team is out of gas and now in a death march

[IntenselyOrange]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxIllini82

This team is out of gas and now in a death march

Yep. Look for the Rays to sweep them and mathematically eliminate them by the end of the weekend.

In the end the record will be about or slightly better than most of us thought. However the early season success makes it pretty bitter. It's like a football team starting out 6-0 and then losing 6 strait.

[FeelYourPaign]

Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange

Yep. Look for the Rays to sweep them and mathematically eliminate them by the end of the weekend.

In the end the record will be about or slightly better than most of us thought. However the early season success makes it pretty bitter. It's like a football team starting out 6-0 and then losing 6 strait.

That would NEVER happen. Right? Oh yeah . . .

[IlliniRunIn07]

Big win last night coupled with a Detroit loss pulled the sox to within one game.

Today isn't off to a great start. Down 5-0 in the 5th and Sale was bounced early in the game. Matt Moore has a perfect game going thus far. Stay tuned...

[886Illini]

it's official, the fade is complete.
if they would just play .500 ball the last 2 weeks.... if...

[IntenselyOrange]

Yep. Over. Oh well. On to 2013. Peavy is likely gone. Youk and AJ also. Not much in the minors to overcome those losses. Morel at 3B? Flowers at C? We do get Danks back, and hopefully a stronger Sale that won't fade, but next year could be rough depending on how the offseason goes.

Lastly, has anyone heard any more on the rumors of Kenny moving on?

[ChiSoxIllini82]

Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange

Yep. Over. Oh well. On to 2013. Peavy is likely gone. Youk and AJ also. Not much in the minors to overcome those losses. Morel at 3B? Flowers at C? We do get Danks back, and hopefully a stronger Sale that won't fade, but next year could be rough depending on how the offseason goes.

Lastly, has anyone heard any more on the rumors of Kenny moving on?

I heard Kenny is getting promoted and Rick Hann is getting the GM job. Kenny recently purchased a mansion in the gold coast.

[FeelYourPaign]

Originally Posted by ChiSoxIllini82

I heard Kenny is getting promoted and Rick Hann is getting the GM job. Kenny recently purchased a mansion in the gold coast.

In fact, the summary that I saw said that the White Sox loaned him $2.15 million to buy the house. Don't think he is going anywhere. Too bad, since he doesn't value anyone's opinion but his own.

[FeelYourPaign]

Friend of mine is a long time season ticket holder. Nice seats, about 4 rows back of the visitor's dugout. So, as the season was going along and the Sox were competitive, they offered post-season tickets. No refund if you buy in and the Sox don't go to playoffs, but they do move your money over to the season ticket renewal bucket, no money lost. fine so far.

Of course, the Sox fail to make the playoffs. Then they announce that his tickets, at $42 per seat are suddenly better than before (part of a new package whose name I forget) and they are going to be $52 per seat next year. Of course, this info comes AFTER having taken his playoff money from him.

He is furious, as they won't refund the money and he is not at all sure that he wants to go for 25% more than he went for this year. This guy is a serious fan, with Vanity Sox license plates, the whole deal.

I'm suggesting that he write to the Tribune and Sun-Times, trying to give the Sox bad press over what I think is a very poor decision. Any other thoughts from anyone?

[IntenselyOrange]

Originally Posted by FeelYourPaign

Friend of mine is a long time season ticket holder. Nice seats, about 4 rows back of the visitor's dugout. So, as the season was going along and the Sox were competitive, they offered post-season tickets. No refund if you buy in and the Sox don't go to playoffs, but they do move your money over to the season ticket renewal bucket, no money lost. fine so far.

Of course, the Sox fail to make the playoffs. Then they announce that his tickets, at $42 per seat are suddenly better than before (part of a new package whose name I forget) and they are going to be $52 per seat next year. Of course, this info comes AFTER having taken his playoff money from him.

He is furious, as they won't refund the money and he is not at all sure that he wants to go for 25% more than he went for this year. This guy is a serious fan, with Vanity Sox license plates, the whole deal.

I'm suggesting that he write to the Tribune and Sun-Times, trying to give the Sox bad press over what I think is a very poor decision. Any other thoughts from anyone?

It won't do any good. They dropped most ticket prices and parking. It's the high end tickets that will have to make up the difference. Call it income redistribution.

Seriously, they did a lot of marketing research to determine how to change prices. I suspect this is the best way for them to make money, which in the end is their goal.

[wpr]

Over the years I have wondered about many of the practices that they Sox Front Office has done. Then they wonder why the are the 2nd team in Chicago.

Other than making a fuss as loud as he can, perhaps on the Score as well, I don't know what else he can do. Seems like they are afraid season ticket holders will not come back next year.

[ctblaisdell83]

Kind of a depressing time of year for a Sox fan. Where I live (between NY and Boston) I'll get to hear about all the FAs available and whether Yankees or Red Sox want them ('cause money isn't the end-all for these teams)...I'll also hear about who will be available in trade and whether Yankees or Red Sox want them ('cause they have the chips & money to go after them).

Then I'll go to White Sox Observer or South Side Sox and hear about the White Sox adjusting payroll down...and who we can't afford to keep. Then Baseball America will score the White Sox farm system 2nd to last. And I'll get fired up when we sign a free agent minor league pitcher from the Dominican Rep.

Gotta say, the financial imbalance in baseball is the most damaging factor in major sports. I can't imagine what it feels like to be a Royals fan.

As for the Sox, I'm old enough to remember when the Sox were as popular as (and more successful than) the Cubs during the 60s. Then the Sox bailed on WGN for an extra $2.50 per game to go to Channel 32. Ten years later it was the beginning of the end. Cubs on national TV everyday. Sox nearly gone to Tampa, then saved by Veeck who had no money to run the club. And since then the teams' local TV contracts have become the greatest discriminator in MLB.

Say, anyone know of any cheap free agents we have a shot at?

On the plus side, we look like geniuses for cutting Guillen loose...just wish they'd sent us Stanton to make the deal last year.

[FeelYourPaign]

I get angry when I hear Yankee fans tell me that it is just so awesome that their team is a contender every year. Like it is shocking that the biggest revenue translates to the best W-L. They act like it is an achievement, when it is just economics. I don't have a problem with the Yankees doing what they can to compete. I have a problem with the league allowing this and I have a problem with the fans that think it is not a factor in their success. And that's my rant.

[IntenselyOrange]

Originally Posted by FeelYourPaign

I get angry when I hear Yankee fans tell me that it is just so awesome that their team is a contender every year. Like it is shocking that the biggest revenue translates to the best W-L. They act like it is an achievement, when it is just economics. I don't have a problem with the Yankees doing what they can to compete. I have a problem with the league allowing this and I have a problem with the fans that think it is not a factor in their success. And that's my rant.

As someone who lives in New York, let me say that most Yankees fans do realize their economic advantage and love that they have it. Red Sox and Mets fans on the other hand seem to forget their advantages.

As for it hurting baseball, I don't necessarily agree. Sure they get to sign free agents, but the goal is to get the prime years of a player's career. More often than not it seems that the big contracts are based on what a player has done rather than what he is likely to do. Think about Pujols and ARod for example. Certainly they have an advantage in that they have depth and can buy out some of their weaknesses, but I don't think they dramatically hurt their opponents. This approach leaves guys they should sign available. Additionally, look for the new luxury tax/draft/international signing rules to even the field even more.

[FeelYourPaign]

IO-
I haven't made a study of this, so understand if I get it wrong, but I think that every other professional sports league understands that it is only a sport if the playing field is level. Therefore, every other sport has the same payroll. So, don't get the "virtue" of coming even closer to level, when MLB is the oldest pro league in existence, not the youngest.

[ctblaisdell83]

To both IO and Paign:

Agree that Yankee fans are more realistic about their advantage (not that any I know would give that advantage back), while Red Sox fans complain about not being at the same spending level as the Yankees (yes - they are only the second richest team in MLB...I weep for them).

As far your point Paign, someone has made a study of this - Bill James. If you are so inclined, get your hands on a copy of his latest Historical Abstract (great book in my opinion, way more than just stats). In one section, he talks about this very issue of imbalance. If I think of it, I'll do a little checking tonight and provide a better reference as to where in the book you'll find it (probs the 1970s or 1980s capsule). I don't always agree with him, but on this point I do.

[-josh-]

If i were running a business and had more resources than a competitor, i would spend whatever amount of my revenue i possibly could to bury them. Welcome to America.

[ctblaisdell83]

Originally Posted by -josh-

If i were running a business and had more resources than a competitor, i would spend whatever amount of my revenue i possibly could to bury them. Welcome to America.

I'd guess we'd all agree with this. I wish the Sox had the YES network and boatloads of cash.

The point is that the NFL is also in America, and they control all TV revenues and share them out...hence Jacksonville and KC can compete with NY and Chicago. It would be great for us if the Bears could spend 5X on salary what the Vikings spend. But can you say that this would be better for the NFL than what we have today?

[IntenselyOrange]

Originally Posted by ctblaisdell83

I'd guess we'd all agree with this. I wish the Sox had the YES network and boatloads of cash.

The point is that the NFL is also in America, and they control all TV revenues and share them out...hence Jacksonville and KC can compete with NY and Chicago. It would be great for us if the Bears could spend 5X on salary what the Vikings spend. But can you say that this would be better for the NFL than what we have today?

Jacksonville: 1-5
Kansas City: 1-5
Chicago: 5-1
NY Giants: 5-2

Half of the MLB playoff teams had payrolls in the bottom half of the league including Oakland which had the second lowest. Don't get me wrong, the economic advantages help, but only if they use that money wisely. Often times they end up giving big contracts to older players like Pujols, ARod, Jeter, etc. The biggest advantages are trading deadline deals and depth. For example, the Yankees can afford to pay a bench player > $1 million whereas the Royals are stuck with whatever league minimum player they can find.

Moreover, the competitive balance argument is a myth. This is a simple, superficial analysis, but you should get the point.

[FeelYourPaign]

Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange

Jacksonville: 1-5
Kansas City: 1-5
Chicago: 5-1
NY Giants: 5-2

Half of the MLB playoff teams had payrolls in the bottom half of the league including Oakland which had the second lowest. Don't get me wrong, the economic advantages help, but only if they use that money wisely. Often times they end up giving big contracts to older players like Pujols, ARod, Jeter, etc. The biggest advantages are trading deadline deals and depth. For example, the Yankees can afford to pay a bench player > $1 million whereas the Royals are stuck with whatever league minimum player they can find.

Moreover, the competitive balance argument is a myth. This is a simple, superficial analysis, but you should get the point.

OK, so I read his analysis and it is helpful. I don't agree with it completely, as he manipulates some of the data (compares Cubs making the playoffs with Bears winning it all - - - not the same thing at all), but still helpful. The point that I started all of this with, btw, is referenced EXACTLY at the end of his article, which is that the Yankees and/or the Red Sox make the playoffs EVERY SINGLE YEAR with the biggest payrolls in baseball. Yes, that is a simple superficial analysis. What is wrong with it? For 18 straight years . . . take a minute and think about that . . . for 18 straight years, if you have one of the biggest payrolls in baseball you go to the playoffs.

I'm done.