Tresselgate - The lying and cheating of Jim Tressel and The Ohio State University

[illinicb]

I like to bash the Endless Self Promotion Network as much as anybody, but in the little I saw yesterday, they covered the story. They may not have presented the emails it was because it is pretty tough to do on TV unless you hit the highlights. Also, they are now in wall to wall tournament coverage. i know some of their radio bobbleheads have talked about it.

[illinicb]

Originally Posted by illinicb

After the O'Brien saga, OSU may be overly careful on handling these situations going forward. I suspect nothing else will happen until the NCAA weighs in, if they do.

Parallels between O'Brien and Tressel: Sports by Brooks

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by illinicb

Parallels between O'Brien and Tressel: Sports by Brooks

And with Tressel they have a MUCH bigger potential liability should they violate his contractual rights.

[orangekrush117]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

It may well be that they can only do so much financially. But the point of the fine is to make it seem like they are being tough on Tressel without doing anything to hurt the football team competitively. That point is lost on you.



I think the speeding ticket is appropriate. But the reality is that after getting a speeding ticket, we all speed again but are more careful about not getting caught because we don't want our insurance to go up. Going forward I'm sure Tressel will be more careful about his email communications to make sure he doesn't get another speeding ticket. The extra benefits, close proximity of boosters to players, etc... will continue.

How does fining Tressel half his salary hurt the football team competitively? I've already agreed that they should do more as far as punishment goes, but not monetarily. My argument is purely monetarily based and we shouldn't assume that because a person makes a lot of money, that a fine doesn't hurt. This is why fines go up with high profile people like football players and coaches.

You are correct about the speeding ticket, and it's used as a deterrance, not a 100% preventative measure. You don't see a lot of us going 75 in a 20 mph zone. That is a huge fine if caught. That is deterrance.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by orangekrush117

How does fining Tressel half his salary hurt the football team competitively?

As I stated in bold italics, it doesn't.

Originally Posted by orangekrush117

I've already agreed that they should do more as far as punishment goes, but not monetarily.

We agree here. The only monetary punishment that would really matter would be to fire Tressel (and that is not just monetary).

Originally Posted by orangekrush117

My argument is purely monetarily based and we shouldn't assume that because a person makes a lot of money, that a fine doesn't hurt. This is why fines go up with high profile people like football players and coaches.

I've cited one study below but there are many others that suggest incremental happiness decreases with increasing income. In other words, while people making $75k/year are substantially happier than those making $50k/year (in aggregate) people making $250k/year are only marginally happier than those making $150k/year.

Someone earning $4.1 million per year will in all likelihood experience no measurable change in the quality of their life either at present or in the future with a loss of $250k. And in all likelihood, that loss can be easily recovered during the next round salary negotiations (his contract is regularly renegotiated).

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...ay/642850.html

I understand exactly what you are saying. Your argument is quite clear. And I disagree. I really don't think Tressel will be hurt measurably by this fine.

Originally Posted by orangekrush117

You are correct about the speeding ticket, and it's used as a deterrance, not a 100% preventative measure. You don't see a lot of us going 75 in a 20 mph zone. That is a huge fine if caught. That is deterrance.

Going 75 in a 20 mph zone is more than a fine, you will probably face legal charges and potentially jail time. You would also face a very substantial probability of causing an accident, killing a pedestrian, etc... Yes that is serious deterrence. The analogy in this situation would be to fire Jim Tressel.

If we continue to speed after receiving a speeding ticket for going 70 mph in a 55 mph zone on the highway, is the deterrence effective? Have you driven on the freeway in a major city? That is the sort of "deterrence" Jim Tressel, a guy who speeds on a regular basis, just received.

[orangekrush117]

I've cited one study below but there are many others that suggest incremental happiness decreases with increasing income. In other words, while people making $75k/year are substantially happier than those making $50k/year (in aggregate) people making $250k/year are only marginally happier than those making $150k/year.

Someone earning $4.1 million per year will in all likelihood experience no measurable change in the quality of their life either at present or in the future with a loss of $250k. And in all likelihood, that loss can be easily recovered during the next round salary negotiations (his contract is regularly renegotiated).

I understand exactly what you are saying. Your argument is quite clear. And I disagree. I really don't think Tressel will be hurt measurably by this fine.

This is where I don't think you understand. My argument is not that he is hurting financially or that his quality of life would decrease, but that he will notice an amount as substantial as $250,000 and I think it would be naive to think otherwise, just as I notice $115 (as referenced above) from my pocket even though I'm not hurting financially. Feel free to disagree as long as you understand what I'm arguing.

Going 75 in a 20 mph zone is more than a fine, you will probably face legal charges and potentially jail time. You would also face a very substantial probability of causing an accident, killing a pedestrian, etc... Yes that is serious deterrence. The analogy in this situation would be to fire Jim Tressel.

Yes, I know it would be dangerous, but I was trying to give that as an example as legal ramifications. I'm not sure about the jail time, but I know the fine increases almost exponentially.

If we continue to speed after receiving a speeding ticket for going 70 mph in a 55 mph zone on the highway, is the deterrence effective? Have you driven on the freeway in a major city? That is the sort of "deterrence" Jim Tressel, a guy who speeds on a regular basis, just received.

I think you'll find plenty of people who don't go much above the speed limit because they fear getting tickets. While I don't drive at 55 on the highway, I try not to go above 65 because I in fact do fear a ticket. Obviously not everyone follows those rules, and the deterrence was not enough for Tressel. But 250,000 is hardly weak sauce.

If this is his only punishment, I agree it will probably not be enough.

[illinicb]

Have any of the players commented publicly? I'd be peeved if I got a five game suspension and the coach only got a two game suspension.

[Dan]

Quarterback Terrelle Pryor and receiver DeVier Posey were the players in the Tressel emails.

Lawyer says he's received death threats

The Columbus lawyer who sent e-mails to Ohio State coach Jim Tressel last April about players selling memorabilia said he gave Tressel the names of two players -- starting quarterback Terrelle Pryor and receiver DeVier Posey -- in an interview with ESPN's Outside the Lines.

Christopher Cicero, a walk-on player for the Buckeyes in the early 1980s, said in his first interview that it's been a stressful time since his name and e-mails to Tressel were revealed. A fan of the Buckeye program, Cicero said he doesn't want to be considered the "Judas" in this controversy and added he has received some death threats in the past few days.

espn.go.com

[DrewD007]

That's a shame. If Tressel would've acted right away it wouldn't be a problem. Players could've repaid the money, paid for the tattoos and probably wouldn't have been that big of a deal.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

As I stated in bold italics, it doesn't.


We agree here. The only monetary punishment that would really matter would be to fire Tressel (and that is not just monetary).



I've cited one study below but there are many others that suggest incremental happiness decreases with increasing income. In other words, while people making $75k/year are substantially happier than those making $50k/year (in aggregate) people making $250k/year are only marginally happier than those making $150k/year.

Someone earning $4.1 million per year will in all likelihood experience no measurable change in the quality of their life either at present or in the future with a loss of $250k. And in all likelihood, that loss can be easily recovered during the next round salary negotiations (his contract is regularly renegotiated).

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...ay/642850.html

I understand exactly what you are saying. Your argument is quite clear. And I disagree. I really don't think Tressel will be hurt measurably by this fine.


Going 75 in a 20 mph zone is more than a fine, you will probably face legal charges and potentially jail time. You would also face a very substantial probability of causing an accident, killing a pedestrian, etc... Yes that is serious deterrence. The analogy in this situation would be to fire Jim Tressel.

If we continue to speed after receiving a speeding ticket for going 70 mph in a 55 mph zone on the highway, is the deterrence effective? Have you driven on the freeway in a major city? That is the sort of "deterrence" Jim Tressel, a guy who speeds on a regular basis, just received.

I won $100 recently in an office pool. It made me very happy!

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by orangekrush117

I think you'll find plenty of people who don't go much above the speed limit because they fear getting tickets. While I don't drive at 55 on the highway, I try not to go above 65 because I in fact do fear a ticket. Obviously not everyone follows those rules, and the deterrence was not enough for Tressel. But 250,000 is hardly weak sauce.

Let's stick with the speeding ticket analogy. Tressel has been "speeding" his entire coaching career. Key players received extra benefits at Youngtown State he did his very best (well documented in high sight) to sweep it under the carpet. There have been repeated problems with players receiving extra benefits for his entire time at OSU (Clarett, Smith, etc...). So far he has been able to get off with warning because he knows the cop, is able to sweet talk his way out of it, etc... Giving this guy a speeding ticket will NOT change his behavior. He clearly thinks that traffic laws are for other people.

If OSU was treating this at all seriously, they would at a minimum establish (a) zero tolerance policy; and (b) a two strikes you are out progression. Tressel's job needs to be explicitly and rigorously tied to maintaining a clean football program. Nothing short of this (and perhaps not even the tangible threat of a firing) will have any effect on Tressel's behavior.

[4ever]

I like the speeding analogies. Where is my radar unit when needed. Carry on.

I hate tOSU and Tressel should go. Freakin cheats!!!

[Illini125]

This could almost go in the Herbstreit thread too. Death threats?

Link

[KBLEE]

Gregg Doyel's Hate Mail

I've never been a fan of Doyel, but some of these are great. I'm sure there are idiots in every fan-base, but tOSU seems to have more than their fair share.

From: Buckeye Fan

Go to michigan trader, you blasting the best college in the contry

This is your e-mail, as is. You used the wrong word (you meant "traitor"), shoved two sentences together with a comma, left out a verb ("you're blasting,") and misspelled "country." Plus the period you forgot at the end, and you didn't capitalize Michigan. That might have been intentional, but you don't strike me as a subtle guy. That's five mistakes, possibly six, in 12 words. Well done, Sloopy.

[ilphotog]

BryanDFischer by TheBigLead
Wow. RT @dispatcheditor: Source says Tressel asks for and receives same 5-game penalty as 5 #Buckeyes in scandal

[Shief]

Better if true, but still not good enough.

[illinidarrin]

Originally Posted by ilphotog

BryanDFischer by TheBigLead
Wow. RT @dispatcheditor: Source says Tressel asks for and receives same 5-game penalty as 5 #Buckeyes in scandal

I'm wondering if they are anticipating that they are going to get hammered by the NCAA and they are just trying to soften the blow?

[illinicb]

Originally Posted by Shief

Better if true, but still not good enough.

And they also lose the PR benefit by doing at after the fact. The NCAA may see it as a good thing.

[BexleyIllini]

OSU must have a lot to hide if Tressel is "voluntarily" extending his suspension. It sure sounds like they want to keep the NCAA watchdogs away. I think there is more to this story; too bad for delusional Buckeye fans.

[illinicb]

what will NCAA do?

This isn't over. Not even close. The NCAA's Committee on Infractions will have the final say, and the committee can accept Ohio State's penalties or add to them. (One addition almost certainly will be the vacation of 12 wins in 2010. After all, Ohio State's head coach knowingly played at least two ineligible players.)

[DrewD007]

I applaud Tressel for adding games, but in the end he'll still be there all week coming up with the game plans and such.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by illinidarrin

I'm wondering if they are anticipating that they are going to get hammered by the NCAA and they are just trying to soften the blow?

Tressel knowingly played ineligible players for an entire season. That is a HUGE competitive advantage that can never be fully undone. There is no way that the NCAA treats this as a minor infraction.

[illini6812]

Originally Posted by ilphotog

BryanDFischer by TheBigLead
Wow. RT @dispatcheditor: Source says Tressel asks for and receives same 5-game penalty as 5 #Buckeyes in scandal

Tressel accepts 5 game suspension


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6230308

[BexleyIllini]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Tressel knowingly played ineligible players for an entire season. That is a HUGE competitive advantage that can never be fully undone. There is no way that the NCAA treats this as a minor infraction.

It really irks me that we lost a close game to OSU last year because of their use of ineligible players. I hope the NCAA smacks Tressel hard.

[ilphotog]

I haven't checked but if a team has to vacate wins, what happens to the record of the team that lost? Still count as a loss? A win? Do either of the coaches have their wins and losses changed?