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UNLV 64, Illinois 48 POSTGAME

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Old Dec 19, 2011, 01:49 PM   #251
I Hate Lemonier
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Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan View Post
I did the math. We are 775-382 over the last 36 years. (From Henson's first season through last year). Our average record is 21-11. Now I am not saying that I am happy with this record, but so many of you think we have been a better program than what we really are. Not to mention that Weber has finished with 23+ wins 5/8 times, not just the first 2 years.

Henson also took over a team that won 8 games the year prior and had to build up the program, plus endure NCAA sanctions thrown in there. There are serious questions after 8+ years here whether Weber can recruit and win on his own
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 01:49 PM   #252
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CH is a better defender at the 2/3 than MH. That's why BW plays him over MH there. Defense comes first with Coach unless you bring a must-need skill and there's no other option at your position (example: DMac). CH also has better handles. But yeah, I think we've got to figure out how to get MH more minutes with the offense struggling so much.
Agree, but, maybe a bigger issue, and I realize I'll get hammered for this, but the real issue could be the lack of a true point guard that can play at a high Div 1 level. As much as I like SAM, and I do, he was operating at a severe disadvantage against the very athletic UNLV team. TA and next year's recruit aren't natural PG's, so, we'll be held back for awhile longer.

I'm afraid, that with all other things staying the same, this team won't win big until we get a natural point guard, and that player is Jalen James. The lack of a true high caliber PG has lowered the ceiling on the Illini since '06. But, here we go again, always waiting on the right players. Ho hum.

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Old Dec 19, 2011, 01:56 PM   #253
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Seven guys on the roster are first year players. It's going to take more than 11 games to become comfortable with the offense. Not to mention that 6 of the 7 are true freshman. So how do you know that they don't fit the system vs. adjusting to playing college basketball and a new offense?
You continue to incorrectly assume that I'm the one saying players don't fit his system. I am only referring to people who say these players aren't fitting his system. The offense looks horrendous, so something is not working, and they probably are correct.

I'm more apt to say Weber's system has grown old, and is scouted too well by the opposition. The defense beats our players to their spots, which is frustrating, and a good sign that things need to change, in a hurry. Find players, and I don't care if they're 5th year seniors or true freshmen, but find players who have the IQ to out-smart an overplaying defense.

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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:25 PM   #254
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Here is what espn had to say about the game http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebaske...arned-saturday
They seem to think it is mostly about UNLV showing they are going to be a great team this year rather than Illinois imploding. I get pretty tired of people ripping our program. People always want to cherry pick the worst of years and leave out the best. They always want to ignore the fact that we lose Chester one week before the NCAA tourny, that a car crash takes out a whole recruiting class. They always want to forget the fact that the Self teams always lost the big games in the tourny.

I think that there is nothing more beautiful than when our motion offense is working. Plenty of other people feel the same way. People here bi*** about everything, too many subs, too little subs, too much yelling, too little yelling. How about we just try support the team.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:51 PM   #255
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I think that there is nothing more beautiful than when our motion offense is working. Plenty of other people feel the same way. People here bi*** about everything, too many subs, too little subs, too much yelling, too little yelling. How about we just try support the team.
No doubt UNLV is a very good team, though Illinois had as much if not more to do with only scoring 48 points as did the Runnin' Rebels.

On the rare occasions when the motion is working since 2005, it's nice. But too often it's running us into bad shots late in the clock.

Everybody is trying to support the team. There are different ways of doing that. For some, the most effective way to support the team is to demand better from the coach, and, if that doesn't happen, to seek his departure.

Everyone wants to see Illinois reach its potential. It's been too long.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 03:12 PM   #256
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Agree, but, maybe a bigger issue, and I realize I'll get hammered for this, but the real issue could be the lack of a true point guard that can play at a high Div 1 level. As much as I like SAM, and I do, he was operating at a severe disadvantage against the very athletic UNLV team. TA and next year's recruit aren't natural PG's, so, we'll be held back for awhile longer.

I'm afraid, that with all other things staying the same, this team won't win big until we get a natural point guard, and that player is Jalen James. The lack of a true high caliber PG has lowered the ceiling on the Illini since '06. But, here we go again, always waiting on the right players. Ho hum.
I think TA will actually be fine at the point, and next year's recruit, Michael Orris, is a natural point guard. Now while he isn't considered a Top 100 recruit, there is no mistaking that he is a point guard and not a combo or shooting guard. In fact, things I have heard this year are that with the graduate of some top talent off of last year's team, Orris has become not only the point but the main scorer and that has given him some ups and downs so far, but that is because in this case a natural point has to become a scoring point as opposed to the other way around with TA.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 03:15 PM   #257
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Is the offense that GK ran at Purdue? How many NCAA Championships did Purdue win with this offensive style? Purdue was consistantly good and choked in the big dance year end and year out. with the exception of the one man team "Big Dog"

This team appears to be loaded with athletic talent that can run and jump. I dont see enough guys since Weber has been here taking the rock to the hole. I thought we have a 7'1" center with pro potential and he should be dominating teams???? Bruce should go look film of the "89 Flyin Illini team" They all took to the hole with authority, That team had athletes !!! And we can't score against zone D . we are great and fun to watch when our shots are falling, But when the arent its embarrasing and very frustrating to watch. JMO
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 03:40 PM   #258
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Bruce should go look film of the "89 Flyin Illini team" They all took to the hole with authority, That team had athletes !!!
I think Brandon Paul needs to watch that film more than Bruce.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 03:55 PM   #259
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Agree, but, maybe a bigger issue, and I realize I'll get hammered for this, but the real issue could be the lack of a true point guard that can play at a high Div 1 level. As much as I like SAM, and I do, he was operating at a severe disadvantage against the very athletic UNLV team. TA and next year's recruit aren't natural PG's, so, we'll be held back for awhile longer.

I'm afraid, that with all other things staying the same, this team won't win big until we get a natural point guard, and that player is Jalen James. The lack of a true high caliber PG has lowered the ceiling on the Illini since '06. But, here we go again, always waiting on the right players. Ho hum.
Sam & Griffey are subpar starters, and get exposed versus long and fast teams like UNLV. Both have trouble getting their shot off, and don't do a whole lot on defense. Unfortunatley there aren't many options behind either. Perhaps they may want to try playing small like Mizzou or trying BP @ the point??
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 04:07 PM   #260
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You continue to incorrectly assume that I'm the one saying players don't fit his system. I am only referring to people who say these players aren't fitting his system. The offense looks horrendous, so something is not working, and they probably are correct.

I'm more apt to say Weber's system has grown old, and is scouted too well by the opposition. The defense beats our players to their spots, which is frustrating, and a good sign that things need to change, in a hurry. Find players, and I don't care if they're 5th year seniors or true freshmen, but find players who have the IQ to out-smart an overplaying defense.
You used the quote so I assumed you must agree with it to. I know you aren't the only one who mentioned Weber not recruiting his type of players. I'm just asking you and anyone else who says this who specifically is Weber missing who is his type of player. Any takers?

I like this team a lot. Young, athletic, and loads of potential. The problem right now is being young, learning a new offense, and developing chemistry. Not to mentio just adjusting to college life for the 6 freshman.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 04:09 PM   #261
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Bruce should go look film of the "89 Flyin Illini team"
Why not just wacth the 2005 team? How many NBA players were on both of those teams? How many players on the current team will play in the NBA? That's the difference!

Last edited by Dan; Dec 19, 2011 at 06:01 PM.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 04:19 PM   #262
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Bruce should go look film of the "89 Flyin Illini team"
Why not just wacth the 2005 team? How many NBA players were on both of those teams? How many players on the current team will play in the NBA? That's the difference!
And maybe that's where Illinois is. Every 12-15 years we get an unsual collection of players and have particular success. The rest of the time we muddle along and hope to win a game or two in the tournament.

Last edited by Dan; Dec 19, 2011 at 06:01 PM.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 04:24 PM   #263
RichMahogany
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Relax. It was a bad game. It happens. Did you all expect us to go undefeated?


We'll be fine. This team will battle for fifth place in the conference. Not bad for a roster that includes 7 new players, and only returned one starter.


This team will improve as the year goes on, and by next season with an offseason to improve, could be a contender for a BIG title. Next season.


This season, be happy with a team that makes the NCAA tourney. That would be a success.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 05:01 PM   #264
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Relax. It was a bad game. It happens. Did you all expect us to go undefeated?


We'll be fine. This team will battle for fifth place in the conference. Not bad for a roster that includes 7 new players, and only returned one starter.


This team will improve as the year goes on, and by next season with an offseason to improve, could be a contender for a BIG title. Next season.


This season, be happy with a team that makes the NCAA tourney. That would be a success.
I love the voice of reason. Of course if they lose tonight, you and I might be singing a different song tomorrow. :laugh:
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 05:46 PM   #265
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JB would fit the offense perfect but is taken out after his first mistake and is nervous to do anything wrong. His game is all driving to the basket.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 05:51 PM   #266
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You cannot have all of your players skills only driving to the basket. There has to be some outside offensive threat on a team and a player who has a little of both. Teams can and have sagged defensively on us which makes it difficult to get guys like Bertrand and Paul to the basket. Also, part of Bertrand's problem is that his handles aren't tight enough to drive against good defenders.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 05:52 PM   #267
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I have to wonder what this board will look like Thursday night?
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 05:58 PM   #268
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You cannot have all of your players skills only driving to the basket. There has to be some outside offensive threat on a team and a player who has a little of both. Teams can and have sagged defensively on us which makes it difficult to get guys like Bertrand and Paul to the basket. Also, part of Bertrand's problem is that his handles aren't tight enough to drive against good defenders.
DJ and Sam can do our shooting along with a little of BP and TG. We have no one driving right now. All we do is run offense 35 ft from the basket with 10 seconds left on the shot clock.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 07:08 PM   #269
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Ok. Was this is a typo???

"Couple interesting tidbits from our conversation: source claims BW told BP afterwards in essence to only shoot a couple of 3s vs. Cornell Monday. McClain's worked over and over with him on driving and dishing and pulling up for mid-range shots, but BP wants to get to the rim. Told him it's not your strength right now and to play to your strengths. Wants DJ to be their primary 3-point marksman."
Sorry. I was writing quickly. "It's" referred to 3-point shooting. BW was the one who told him that 3-point shooting wasn't his strength right now.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 09:19 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
Relax. It was a bad game. It happens. Did you all expect us to go undefeated?


We'll be fine. This team will battle for fifth place in the conference. Not bad for a roster that includes 7 new players, and only returned one starter.


This team will improve as the year goes on, and by next season with an offseason to improve, could be a contender for a BIG title. Next season.


This season, be happy with a team that makes the NCAA tourney. That would be a success.
I completely agree with this. There will be some very frustrating games along the way this season, but I think there will also be a few very satisfying ones (like against the Zags). Take your heart meds, ride the rollercoaster, and have a good time.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 04:09 PM   #271
WizardBill
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Originally Posted by CrazedUIFan View Post
You cannot have all of your players skills only driving to the basket. There has to be some outside offensive threat on a team and a player who has a little of both. Teams can and have sagged defensively on us which makes it difficult to get guys like Bertrand and Paul to the basket. Also, part of Bertrand's problem is that his handles aren't tight enough to drive against good defenders.
Well, we have ML. Dunking. We have DJ jump shooting. We have TG posting. We have BP driving to the bucket (well, at ). We have SM passing the ball. This lineup seems to have everything we need. We are only 11-1! I hope they figure things out soon. Missou next.
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