Penn State 54, Illinois 52 POSTGAME

[Botb9]

Originally Posted by Sybok

4-2 in the conference and 15-4 overall just shouldn't happen. It's awful! [/sarcasm]

This shouldn't be lost on anybody. However, they should be 16-3, 5-1 and firmly in first place in conference. We all believe that, and we have good cause for concern today. After all, if there was one road game you thought you could win, it was PSU minus two of their better players.

[Sybok]

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

15-4 isn't bad, but there's still no excuse for losing last night's game.

I disagree. I think the long layoff hurt.

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

And our schedule is about to get a heck of a lot tougher.

The Big Ten is tough anyway. Every team in the conference is going to win some and lose some they shouldn't.

[Southernillini]

Originally Posted by Dan

Joe was a factor vs Ohio State- 5-7, 10 points, 7 rebounds. Unfortunately his shot wasn't falling last night, was only 2-6 from the field after shooting 74% the previous 3 games.

I don't recall him getting into the paint with his runner. That is something we really need on the road. Especially when the 3's aren't falling.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by Southernillini

I don't recall him getting into the paint with his runner. That is something we really need on the road. Especially when the 3's aren't falling.

Joe wasn't a factor last night and didn't take enough shots, really, to establish any sort of rhythm. With DJ off and our PG play abysmal, we needed JB to do more. Maybe he tried and maybe BW exhorted him, but he seemed pretty invisible last night.

Our offense consisted of two guys, BP and Meyers, and in the end, one of them was out of the game and the other never saw the ball.

[beaboutillini74]

I think weber saying they didn't play well and he didn't coach well is an understatement. After looking at the final stats which doesn't show that the refs sucked. Someone needs to start monitoring all big ten games and keep track of all bad or missed calls. Do any of these refs ever get threatened of suspension if the cant call a game any better. Aside from that. As far as the game went.

PSU had
1. More points in the paint.
2. More points off turnovers.
3. More fastbreak points.
4. More second chance points.
5. More points from the bench.

Reguardless of how bad the refs were or how bad everyone shot the ball. For Weber to allow SM to play 27 minutes and him to not score a point is not exceptable. Weber shouldn't have let him play anymore than 10 minutes. I would be willing to bet that had Weber picked anyone else on that bench and played them 27 minutes they would have atleast scored a basket.

[BleedOrangeandBlue]

Bruce said last night that the 'players weren't sharp....and I didn't coach well' and BP also said that the last timeout had 'bad communication'. This is from BRUCE and BRANDON PAUL not from some blog or some hypothetical theory!!!!

I have read this message board for about a year now and just started giving my two cents. C'mon people, live in reality here.....OUR OWN COACH IS SAYING HE DIDN'T COACH WELL!!!!! Should tell you alot about our program. Bruce is a great guy and I believe he is just burnt out....players have no confidence in the 'offense' and are playing scared to make a mistake or it will effect playing time...I.E. Myke Henry, Crandall Head, ect....

Players aren't sharp because they are not prepared well. 9 days to prepare for the worst team in the B1G with two of their players unavailable. This is what we as fans get.............pretty bad state of affairs in our program right now.

[Botb9]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

Joe wasn't a factor last night and didn't take enough shots, really, to establish any sort of rhythm. With DJ off and our PG play abysmal, we needed JB to do more. Maybe he tried and maybe BW exhorted him, but he seemed pretty invisible last night.

Our offense consisted of two guys, BP and Meyers, and in the end, one of them was out of the game and the other never saw the ball.

There wasn't enough driving to the hoop in general in the second half. There was success with it in the first half. We got three or four fouls generated in the first five minutes, and then inexplicably stopped trying to drive.

[Botb9]

Originally Posted by beaboutillini74

I think weber saying they didn't play well and he didn't coach well is an understatement. After looking at ehe final stats which doesnt show that the refs sucked. Someone needs to start monitoring all big ten games and keep track of all bad or missed calls. Do any of these refs ever get threatened of suspension if the cant call a game any better. Aside from that. As far as the game went.

PSU had
1. More points in the paint.
2. More points off turnovers.
3. More fastbreak points.
4. More second chance points.
5. More points from the bench.

Reguardless of how bad the refs were or how bad everyone shot the ball. For Weber to allow SM to play 27 minutes and him to not score a point is not exceptable. Weber shouldn't have let him play anymore than 10 minutes. I would be willing to bet that had Weber picked anyone else on that bench and played them 27 minutes they would have atleast scored a basket.

Or, assuming Sam does play his 10 minutes, play someone else the other 17. They probably get a bucket or some foul shots.

[Botb9]

Originally Posted by BleedOrangeandBlue

Bruce said last night that the 'players weren't sharp....and I didn't coach well' and BP also said that the last timeout had 'bad communication'. This is from BRUCE and BRANDON PAUL not from some blog or some hypothetical theory!!!!

I have read this message board for about a year now and just started giving my two cents. C'mon people, live in reality here.....OUR OWN COACH IS SAYING HE DIDN'T COACH WELL!!!!! Should tell you alot about our program. Bruce is a great guy and I believe he is just burnt out....players have no confidence in the 'offense' and are playing scared to make a mistake or it will effect playing time...I.E. Myke Henry, Crandall Head, ect....

Players aren't sharp because they are not prepared well. 9 days to prepare for the worst team in the B1G with two of their players unavailable. This is what we as fans get.............pretty bad state of affairs in our program right now.

Eh, lots of coaches in sports say this. Mostly, it's the right thing to do. He might be the only one who genuinely believes it though.

[lstewart53x3]

Originally Posted by Sybok

I disagree. I think the long layoff hurt.

The Big Ten is tough anyway. Every team in the conference is going to win some and lose some they shouldn't.

Excuse me. There's no good excuse to lose last nights game.

We can blame the layoff, we can blame the refs (they sucked), we can blame the rims, we can blame the lighting. We can blame whatever we want, but at the end of the day we were a top 25 team with top 25 talent with a (supposedly) good coach playing against a team that had only won 1 other B1G game. A game that we have lost 3 of the last 4 years prior. People want to see improvement and that's not it. We shouldn't digres as the season goes along, especially with a young team.

PSU will probably upset a few more teams at home this year, but I really wanted that one.

[JW]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

The PG play regressed terribly last night. TA played badly, but Weber added to it by not following his stated plan to play Sam no more than 10-15. It was patently obvious that Sam not only was still restricted, but that his judgment was awful. He played much more like a recovering freshman than a recovering 5th year senior. There is fault enough to go around--everbody made glaring mistakes at critical moments, but the biggest failures and issues, I believe, remain at the point and on the bench.

I continue to say, the worst thing about this was how ripe PSU was for the picking. They were short handed. They are not very good (though they have some good guards). Their inside guys are stiffs, really. We have a seven foot athlete who demonstrated he was unstoppable when he got the ball anywhere in the paint. Yet we could not or would not consitently deliver him the ball. This was our 19th game of the season. Our 19th game! And we're still playing like we are confused a lot of the time, committing needless turnovers, using poor judgment in shot selection, and breaking down at crucial moments of the game.

That last possession was an absolute embarrassment, for all of our coaches and our players.

I'm with the poster above who would choose to coach against Weber if he could pick. When it comes down to coaching deicisions and actions, as it did at the end yesterday, I'd feel the same way. I know, I know, DJ screwed up and brought his man to Sam, but is it any wonder when you hear how Weber described his play design and what BP said about the climate in the huddle (total confusion)?

Bardo said Weber took the timeout because Maniscalco had the ball in his hands. That was the obvious explanation for an otherwise stupid timeout call, but I don't think that was it for Weber at all. I assume he would have taken the TO regardless, because it's his nature not to trust his guys and to want to draw something up. So, what does he do? Inexplicably to Bardo, I'm sure, he diagrams a play that starts with the ball in Maniscalco's hands, a guy who was limited and slow and hadn't made a good decision with the ball all night. That was his trigger man for the play of the game?

Come on, Bruce. You are an experienced, Division I, Big Ten coach. Can't you do even a little better than that?

The consistently frustrating nature of Weber's inconsistent frustrating product.

[Sybok]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

That's fine, but we lost a game we really needed and one we had nearly a week and a half to prepare for. I'm still pleased with the team's overall record and performance, but that doesn't make up for a very poorly played game, awful performance by our point guards, too many turnovers, and a botched last shot attempt when we had enough time to do far better.

Agreed, but as I stated, I believe the long layoff wasn't helpful. The energy from tOSU game was long gone. This team should have been able to go up-tempo against PSU.

[Generation X]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

Come on, Bruce. You are an experienced, Division I, Big Ten coach. Can't you do even a little better than that?

You are 100% correct but this is life under Weber I'm afraid. We are on almost the exact same trajectory as we were last year at this time. The only difference was the UIC loss but otherwise it is almost indistiguishable. I thought maybe the OSU game was a jumpstart to some new life in this program but last night shows me little has changed.

We are going to end up a bubble team again this year. I think we are going to have to get used to our new position in the Big 10 and National hierarchy. Since 1980 there have been arguably 2 more successful programs in our conference than us. Michigan St and Indiana. Yet there are some that seem content for us to fall into 5th or worse place on a yearly basis. Yearly we are in the top 15 often top 10 in attendance. Have the results on the floor matched our fans dedication?

This program has taken a step back and there is no question in my mind that Weber cannot elevate us past where we are now

[Sybok]

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

....We shouldn't digres as the season goes along, especially with a young team.

Well, that would be the problem with the long layoff after the big win over tOSU.

[Botb9]

Originally Posted by JW

The consistently frustrating nature of Weber's inconsistent frustrating product.

I'm finally on the bandwagon that Weber's time is coming to an end. Only I don't consider it a bandwagon. I just think it's reality. Weber's taken us to new heights in his time here, but we've stumbled since. He might get us a tournament win or two this year, but I don't think that stems the tide. He won't be off the hot seat until games like this become a thing of the past. And if they don't, the seat will eventually be pulled out from under him. MT has already shown he's willing to do that even after a single year. It will be Thomas' legacy here if he can find successful football and basketball coaches in the same year.

You can point and say what he's done good and what he's done badly. Bottom line is the results aren't there. This program was on the cusp! Now we're quite off of it, floating from middling to good, back to middling, to bad, and back again. It's not mediocrity -- it's inconsistency, and underachievement. That last word, underachievers, will be forever the label of the last five years of Illini teams.

[lstewart53x3]

Originally Posted by Sybok

Well, that would be the problem with the long layoff after the big win over tOSU.

I agree with you that the long layoff hurt, but we still should have won that game. If anything, the long layoff should have given us a chance to get rest up and get re-energized. Come up with a good game plan for PSU, get our young guards (including Sam man in that) some practice feeding the post ( a lot of practice). Get better at all the little things we did poorly the first 18 games of the season. Instead, we come out and do more of the bad things. We play slower. In the second half, you couldn't tell that those were rested legs out there. We should have won that game no matter what, but we didn't, and I don't see us winning a whole lot more this year, which is what's most frustrating.

*I know that last sentence is about 8 sentences lol sorry about that

[IlliniSteve]

Originally Posted by Brandon Paul

"It was kind of scrambled in the huddle trying to figure it out," said Paul, who scored 11 of his game-high 20 points in the second half. "There were a lot of communication problems. I would have rather just have stepped off, got the ball and made a play, but it didn't happen that way."

Ouch. Scrambled in the huddle is never a good thing to hear. Telling quote from BP.

[BleedOrangeandBlue]

That was my point....Bruce is burnt out...ready to go

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by Sybok

Well, that would be the problem with the long layoff after the big win over tOSU.

Virtually EVERYONE felt the layoff was a good thing, including Weber. It's an obvious excuse now, but I think to even suggest it is an indictment of the coaching staff. If they were unable to prepare their team over 9 days, against a weak opponent further weakened by injuries to two key players, I don't know what can be said.

Ohio State was one amazing game, but may have shown us nothing beyond an unprecedented one-man show. This sad performance and loss feels much more like the Illini teams and results we've come to know under Bruce Weber.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Sam had early success against weak non conference teams. now that we are in the Big Ten schedule its painfully obvious he's not good enough.

Sam's ankle is far worse now then back when he was our best play player against Richmond, Illinois State, Maryland, Gonzaga, and back then he wasn't at 100%.

It's so disappointing (and borderline disgusting) that Weber chose to ride him for 27 minutes last night, after he repeated ad nauseam the "10-15 minutes tops" talking point leading up to the game. Sam's essentially on one good foot, did not score, made bad decisions (only 2 turnovers, is that right?), brought nothing to the table.

Sam was so good for us early in the season, he essentially saved Illinois' non-conference schedule. Now, his ankle is worse, is getting worser and worser (sp.), will not get better this season. He was in a walking boot just recently and had to sit out 3 games. The ankle: It's not getting better. Not getting better. The opposite. He clearly isn't effective at this level anymore.

What's Weber goal here, to have Sam get booed at the Hall? No of course not, but that's where this is clearly heading.

[pdog]

Here's my thoughts after last night's game.

1. Bruce Weber has to go. I have been a staunch supporter of his for some time, but it's high time he hit the road. Either he's an idiot and can't coach or he can't get his players to do what they should, and either one is reason for him to be gone.

2. Maniscalco has no business in the game. Abrams has played pretty well in his absence and we have won, and now look what happens when 10 minutes turns into 30 minutes and 0-5 shooting and horrible shot selection. He wasn't close to making anything all night, so why would he try the last shot? Just plum crazy!

3. We can't feed the post or the guards are too worried about getting their shots to feed the post. I saw a few times last night, maybe more, where they would just stare Myers down while he was posting and then pass it elsewhere and when they did feed it to him they just stood there and didn't slash or move to open spots or crash the boards to try and get offensive rebounds.

4. I am done with this team. I get too invested and too worked up over this team and then blow my stack when they lay another rotten egg like last night. Bottom line is if they can't beat Penn St. there at least every other year, then they aren't very good and are not worth watching.

[thechief1460]

For all you geniuses hating on Maniscalco he did the right thing. It was a broken play, he got to the rim and at least got a shot off. He might not be the most athletic, he definitely wasn't Weber's first option, but considering the circumstances he did the only thing he could do.

Go watch the replay, everyone else was locked up. He wasn't the first option, he was the only option. Credit PSU's defense.

In years passed (last year) the Illini may not have even gotten a shot off.

[thenoodler]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

Ohio State was one amazing game, but may have shown us nothing beyond an unprecedented one-man show. This sad performance and loss feels much more like the Illini teams and results we've come to know under Bruce Weber.

That's what I'm seeing, at least through my admittedly pessimistic eyes. We shot 58% against OSU and 34%(?) against PSU, but it's not enough for me to write this one off to poor shooting. There are ways to mitigate the effects of a poor shooting night, and I don't believe those methods are being properly utilitized by this coaching staff.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by thechief1460

For all you geniuses hating on Maniscalco he did the right thing. It was a broken play, he got to the rim and at least got a shot off. He might not be the most athletic, he definitely wasn't Weber's first option, but considering the circumstances he did the only thing he could do.

Go watch the replay, everyone else was locked up. He wasn't the first option, he was the only option. Credit PSU's defense.

In years passed (last year) the Illini may not have even gotten a shot off. Clemson anyone?

For the most part, people are objecting more to Weber's overuse of a completely ineffective Maniscalco, his (Weber's) failure to follow his own advice and play Sam sparingly, and the misadventures down the stretch, first with a questionable timeout call, then a scattered, confusing final huddle (in BP's words, not mine) followed by an inept last play.

Sam is limited, but he played terrible last night. Weber should have seen that and kept him out. Really, Sam, as a senior leader, also should have realized he was ineffective and taken himself out. He hurt Illinois yesterday and both parties (Weber and Sam) bear responsibility for that.

Sometimes, guys try too hard to be heroes or saviors and end up hurting their team. That was the case for Sam last night. I feel sorry for him, and I fault Weber primarily, but Sam was in the game, he allowed himself to stay in the game, and he was a liability.

[Geno33]

By Webers on admisssion both Tyler and Nana played well in the few minutes they were in,as aposed to a few others that were not playing yet got most of the playing time.So I guess his message is play well and sit