Illinois 42, Michigan State 41 POSTGAME

[CrazedUIFan]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgen

I've been saying it for years...this coaching staff doesn't have the guys work in practice on fundamentals hardly at all. They focus on video/game prep, tendencies of the opponent, and defense.

So as time passes, our guys begin to excel in those facets and in turn we see a steady decline in shooting %, passing, ballhandling, free throws, horrid decisions in transition, etc.

Its been this way for Bruce's tenure, and will continue to be that way as long as he is our coach. Its how he's always done thing, and always will.

Fundamentals are worked on during the offseason. It's nearly impossible to prepare for a game and work on fundamentals in practice once the season starts, especially during the conference part of the schedule. There isn't enough time in practice to do it all. It becomes up to the players to spend their own time doing so. The staff only has so much time with them.

[Hugh Jorgen]

Originally Posted by zpfled

Very glad to hear the injury is not serious.

I don't get the joke, though? Day Day?

Green's nickname from childhood...still goes by it.

[4LaCosaNostra]

Originally Posted by IlliniBond

Fact is many predicted UI would be 9-9 and at best 10-8 in the B10.
The team is still on track to do either.

home against, NW, Purdue, Iowa, Michigan
away at IU, Michigan, Nebraska, OSU, Wisconsin

IMO - I see 4 wins and 4 toss-up games and 1 heavy underdog game in the remaining 9 games.

fwiw, we can and should win the home games.. i think we lose big at michigan, osu, and IU.. nebraska on the road is probably a toss up and whisky will be favored and we probably lose by 5-10 cuz of their horrific style of basketball.

[ChampaignLou]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Who could take you seriously as a poster after that post?

We 'luck'd out'? Gimme a break. So we should count Minnesota as some kind of a win? After all THEY luck'd out and won that game. No. You win the games you score more points in. If you care about the margin of victory or the magnitude of the score, you're nuts. If you would rather lose a high scoring game than win a low scoring game, you're insane.

It's called the big picture. And it's not about the margin or score, but more about progression of the players. The progress of the team has diminished. The goal is not to just make the tourney but do well in the tourney. That's ultimately where the success of the program is built. At this point, I don't see this team getting through the first round, so then who cares if this team has to use more of the bench now or experiment with trying to get the players' offensive mindset in a better position.

How many people have already or are thinking that that game was unwatchable and came away more despondant over this team than going in.
I definitely don't root against Illinois, but I'd trade seeing some progress over 1 win that was really ugly.

[CrazedUIFan]

Originally Posted by ChampaignLou

It's called the big picture. And it's not about the margin or score, but more about progression of the players. The progress of the team has diminished. The goal is not to just make the tourney but do well in the tourney. That's ultimately where the success of the program is built. At this point, I don't see this team getting through the first round, so then who cares if this team has to use more of the bench now or experiment with trying to get the players' offensive mindset in a better position.

How many people have already or are thinking that that game was unwatchable and came away more despondant over this team than going in.
I definitely don't root against Illinois, but I'd trade seeing some progress over 1 win that was really ugly.

The staff is judged by wins and losses. There is a fine line between letting players gain experience and also winning. The difference in more bench may also mean missing the tournament. I imagine most here would agree that making the tournament is far more important than experimenting with the bench. It affects recruiting, image, and wins/losses. It's too bad you cannot enjoy a win. I would love to have a win against Mizzou rather than have the score be in the 70s. There are a lot of young pieces to this team, which makes it challenging. Let's see how they progress since there are still quite a few games left on the schedule.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

Besides getting the win, there were two big positives in last night's game.

One was MH's play, and the fact that Weber even put him in late, at crunch time. He played well, made effective use of his minutes, hit the boards. This had to help his confidence, and the coaches' confidence in him. Based on last night, he's earned more minutes.

The other was TA hitting the monster three, another confidence booster. He was open, and he needed to take that shot. He knocked it down, effectively the game winner. It won't make him a great shooter or cold-blooded killer overnight, but it's got to help. I was very happy for him. He's a hard worker, as are most of these guys.

I agree with others that Sam's minutes need to be limited. He built up his stats in the non-conference portion of the schedule. In terms of speed, quickness, and general athleticism, he's overmatched physically most games. I'm also troubled by what I consider poor decision making from him at critical moments. He has taken bad shots on a number of occasions, and he has a tendency to over dribble and dribble into trouble, which he did again late in last night's game. The offense seems to bog down when he's in the game.

Clearly, Abrams is the future at the point, and he needs time. He fouls too much, and he makes inexperience mistakes, but I don't believe he hurts the team when he's in, and I don't believe SM makes a material difference. To me, he may actually hinder the team's performance.

I like the idea of a 30-10 split in minutes, TA to SM, if TA can stay out of foul trouble. The ratio always can be adjusted based on the flow and pace of the game and how the players respond. But for the most part, the lion's share of the minutes from here on out should go to TA whenever possible IMO.

Great points. I now have you on my short list of potential replacements for Weber is he is indeed let go.

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Originally Posted by zpfled

Very glad to hear the injury is not serious.

I don't get the joke, though? Day Day?

It's his nick name and now he's "day to day".

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by CrazedUIFan

The staff is judged by wins and losses. There is a fine line between letting players gain experience and also winning. The difference in more bench may also mean missing the tournament. I imagine most here would agree that making the tournament is far more important than experimenting with the bench. It affects recruiting, image, and wins/losses. It's too bad you cannot enjoy a win. I would love to have a win against Mizzou rather than have the score be in the 70s. There are a lot of young pieces to this team, which makes it challenging. Let's see how they progress since there are still quite a few games left on the schedule.

I agree 100%. There is nobody on our bench that is so exciting that I could see them making a huge difference for us this year. The key is winning. Nobody should care HOW you win. I don't discount the 2005 season because we should have lost to Arizona in the Elite 8. We didn't. They did. The rest is history.

We'd all like to see a better offense but MSU and the refs had a lot to do with last nights offensive woes. Playing 4 smalls is not conducive to beating MSU if the refs let the teams bang down low. Last night was insane when it came to rough play in the interior.

We were completely outsized and their players are vastly better prospects than ours. ANY win under those circumstances is a big win.

Finally this nonsense about Green playing poorly therefore we won is simply nonsense. The people spouting it would never accept it as an excuse for our losses if/when the shoe is on the other foot.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

I agree 100%. There is nobody on our bench that is so exciting that I could see them making a huge difference for us this year. The key is winning. Nobody should care HOW you win. I don't discount the 2005 season because we should have lost to Arizona in the Elite 8. We didn't. They did. The rest is history.

We'd all like to see a better offense but MSU and the refs had a lot to do with last nights offensive woes. Playing 4 smalls is not conducive to beating MSU if the refs let the teams bang down low. Last night was insane when it came to rough play in the interior.

We were completely outsized and their players are vastly better prospects than ours. ANY win under those circumstances is a big win.

Finally this nonsense about Green playing poorly therefore we won is simply nonsense. The people spouting it would never accept it as an excuse for our losses if/when the shoe is on the other foot.

I think you could make that case for Langford.....if he were not a RS. :laugh:
Hats off to our D last night. Aside from rebounding, it was really good against a much larger team.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

I think you could make that case for Langford.....if he were not a RS. :laugh:
Hats off to our D last night. Aside from rebounding, it was really good against a much larger team.

I don't know about Langford. I think if he could contribute, he would. Bruce has no tomorrow's if he doesn't produce. Devin didn't want to RS in the first place. I am guessing that the staff doesn't see him as being able to make this year's team any better.

[4LaCosaNostra]

fwiw / and to no surprise.. complete bashing on the score670 B&B.. all aimed at weber and bigten..suckfeast over izzo.. hey buddy they scored less and shot worse %. they are saying a black coach will be hired in place of weber..through their people. little do they know it was the trustees that brought this up and basically made fools of themselves cuz we offered Sumlin..

[zpfled]

Originally Posted by WesterveltVictoryCigar

It's his nick name and now he's "day to day".

Ah, thanks!

[WashUIllini]

That was tough to watch but a dub is a dub imo. It did make me miss the excellent games against the Brown and Ag(g)er teams. Not Nietzel though...I hate that guy more than Matt Sylvester.

[CrazedUIFan]

I am usually the first one to get on BP for some of his offensive decision making, but I need to give him some serious kudos for the way he has been playing defense. He has been extremely good at rebounding, blocking, and stripping the ball. He have very active hands. Just think what he could accomplish if he could cut his TOs in half?

[zpfled]

Originally Posted by CrazedUIFan

I am usually the first one to get on BP for some of his offensive decision making, but I need to give him some serious kudos for the way he has been playing defense. He has been extremely good at rebounding, blocking, and stripping the ball. He have very active hands. Just think what he could accomplish if he could cut his TOs in half?

Yeah, he has taken his defense to the next level. It sure was good to see him in Dakich's All-Big Ten Team last night. He's a good example of a player Weber has developed well.

[zeezo]

Originally Posted by IlliniSteve

Yeah, but Griff should at least get a couple minutes.

Not too much to ask.

How's his attitude been in practice lately? Has he been working hard to improve his game and help the team? Is he getting the job done in the classroom and keeping all his responsibilities in order?

[alexander58]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jorgen

I've been saying it for years...this coaching staff doesn't have the guys work in practice on fundamentals hardly at all. They focus on video/game prep, tendencies of the opponent, and defense.

So as time passes, our guys begin to excel in those facets and in turn we see a steady decline in shooting %, passing, ballhandling, free throws, horrid decisions in transition, etc.

Its been this way for Bruce's tenure, and will continue to be that way as long as he is our coach. Its how he's always done thing, and always will.

You know they don't work on fundamentals? Please explain.

[zeezo]

Originally Posted by ChampaignLou

Illinois just lucked out. How many times this year will D. Green be ineffective (due to injury, illness, fouls), Michigan State shoot so bad that it's literally half as good as they shoot on average and they only lose by 1 on the road.

Nice job diminishing the stellar efforts of our players. Congrats on that. Well done.

For you and others of your mindset, here's something to keep in mind - in basketball, defense and offense are equally important in determining the outcome of the game.

What a shame that we can't even beat a top 10 team coached by a hall of famer. Oh, wait.. We did that..

So tired of the crybabies around here.

[zeezo]

Originally Posted by alexander58

You know they don't work on fundamentals? Please explain.

If they have been, the results are glaringly lacking in certain areas: the passing and open court skills of our guards and wings are painfully bad.

It's odd because some of Weber's early teams were among the best passing teams I've ever seen. Just a joy to watch. Now it's the complete opposite.

[PeoriaSteve]

Originally Posted by ChampaignLou

It's called the big picture. And it's not about the margin or score, but more about progression of the players. The progress of the team has diminished. The goal is not to just make the tourney but do well in the tourney. That's ultimately where the success of the program is built. At this point, I don't see this team getting through the first round, so then who cares if this team has to use more of the bench now or experiment with trying to get the players' offensive mindset in a better position.

How many people have already or are thinking that that game was unwatchable and came away more despondant over this team than going in.
I definitely don't root against Illinois, but I'd trade seeing some progress over 1 win that was really ugly.

You're watching the men's hoop team right? No progress? OMG, Abrams has made major strides, Egwu continues to improve and Joe B is way better than last year. The BTN last night listed Meyers 2nd most improved player and BP3 certainly has another level he didn't have last year. I think the wrestling team has a meet soon, you might want to catch them, cause basketball seems to be escaping you.

[PeoriaSteve]

Originally Posted by 4LaCosaNostra

best news from today from klee was TA and shaw got a six room house next year all lined up..no shaw transfer rumors.

any idea why ibby got tick over shaw last night??? better on defense i guess, would love to see shaw get some time.

TG seems gone from meaningful minutes

I think JB needs to dribble into his man / they are playing way off of him / back him down a little and use his floater game from there. he is confused a little with how teams are defending him now

How about take the open 15 ft jumper?

[danielb927]

2-0 at home against the 2 best teams in the conference is awesome, no matter how ugly or how good you are as a team.

[PeoriaSteve]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

With the terrible shooting, the overinflated ball issue, the late FT failures by BP, and Green's uncharacterstic problems and then his late injury, I really don't think we can take much away from this game except that Illinois had generally good defensive pressure (though poor interior rebounding) and won the ball game.

I wouldn't even chalk this up as an old-fashioned slugfest between two good teams.

It was an aberrant game. It was weird. Despite giving MSU chance after chance to win, the Illini came out on top, barely. It feels great today to be 5-4 instead of the other way around.

Izzo must be wondering what sort of demon possessed his team last night.

One other thing to take from the game. We beat a 2nd top 10 team for just the
3rd time in school history BTW, ythe other two teams, '51 and '89 went to the Final 4.

[PeoriaSteve]

Originally Posted by joekam

Agreed. We only scored 42 but MSU only scored 41. People will call it the ugliest win they may have seen, but I'll take it as opposed to the skid hitting four games and Armageddon coming down on Champaign.

A win over a top 10 team that is ugly? No way, no how. Wins over top 10 teams are gifts that keep on givin.

[sdfidaho]

Originally Posted by PeoriaSteve

You're watching the men's hoop team right? No progress? OMG, Abrams has made major strides, Egwu continues to improve and Joe B is way better than last year. The BTN last night listed Meyers 2nd most improved player and BP3 certainly has another level he didn't have last year. I think the wrestling team has a meet soon, you might want to catch them, cause basketball seems to be escaping you.

Nice!