Bruce Weber Fired

[TyinLex]

Originally Posted by TheSecretWeapon

What did people honestly expect would happen if MT said "I support Bruce 100%" back in February? Bruce would suddenly know what buttons to push and win a few more games? The team would squeak into the NCAA and lose in the first round? Weber would come back next year with no ML and minimal experience from the bench and turn the direction of the program around?

Bruce Weber proved over and over again that he was not the right man for the Illini job anymore. HE HAD 9 YEARS to build this program and it is teetering on the verge of being a perennial doormat in the B1G.

My thoughts exactly. His time was up, why can't people understand that?

[illinicb]

Originally Posted by TheSecretWeapon

It is not Mike Thomas' fault that the team and coached pissed down their legs the 2nd half of the season.

Of course it isn't and to think it is, is ludicrous. When Thomas was hired everyone with a brain in their head knew that he would be looking at the two revenue sport coaches in particular. The football team didn't lose six in a row because MT didn't give a meaningless vote of confidence to Zook and the basketball team didn't make the tourney because MT didn't offer Bruce an extension mid season. This team had flaws that were revealed in the long run. Blaming MT for this is like blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing to the Marlins. See the definition of the phrase "red herring".

[pizzaman]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

I just object to Izzo trying to throw his weight around and, most of all, to him taking shots at Mike Thomas. Express support for your friend and leave it at that. No need to publicly vilify someone else for doing his job.

I guess you answered my question. You care what he said. I don't.

[Aaron]

Izzo's comments were a very similar to what he said when Iowa fired Lickliter after three straight losing seasons:

Lickliter firing 'disgusting' to Izzo

"So don't wonder why we have to hold guys as accountable as we have to hold them. And when the day comes when a guy's not held accountable, and I lose too many games and I get fired, I hope somebody says the same about me. Because that's disgusting to our profession."

What bothers me is Izzo seemingly promotes this idea that good guys in the coaching profession deserve extra long leashes, but has no problem with the multi-million dollar contracts these coaches receive. Izzo is guaranteed 3.5 million every single year. We all know how much Weber makes.

Fans with far less comfortable financial situations use their expendable income to follow and support these teams. If he really has such an issue with the pressure these coaches are under he should return 90% of his salary.

I agree that Izzo's comments were throwing gasoline on a spark and only made a bigger headline out of Weber's job status. He blames the administration, fan expectations, the job, single parent families---nearly everyone except for Bruce himself. You can admire his heart for defending a friend, but his comments were completely off base.

Finally, I don't think Izzo is doing anything to intentionally sabotage the Illinois program, but he is clearly Bruce's friend--not ours. That said, no coach worth his salt is going to be put off by any of this. Winners want to win.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by TyinLex

My thoughts exactly. His time was up, why can't people understand that?

I understand this, too, but I still feel for Bruce. His intentions were the best, this truly was his "dream job". I've wanted him to move on since 2006. It was clear to me that he hoped to stay in Champaign for the duration of his career, and that's what made me the most nervous. I feared he would do just well enough not to get sacked, and would never leave of his own volition. He's a plodder who will grit his teeth and soldier on.

He created the climate that produced failure, but he certainly didn't do it on purpose. Like many of us, I don't think he sees his own limitations. He does the same things over and over, and figures if he just works harder, keeps trying, hollers more, it will come together. I don't think he ever understood how or why it was that his players didn't fully buy in, didn't seem to "get" his program.

He's undeniably a very good man, loyal to a fault, honest to the core, highly principled. But he's not a victim of Mike Thomas or of circumstance. He made his bed here, doing things the only way he knows how to do them. We feel for him and we want him to succeed. Somewhere else.

[illinicb]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

I just object to Izzo trying to throw his weight around and, most of all, to him taking shots at Mike Thomas. Express support for your friend and leave it at that. No need to publicly vilify someone else for doing his job.

I obviously agree, but I don't fault Izzo that much because I don't think it is a big deal. It really means squadoosh. Izzo spoke out of emotion. I don't expect an apology because he believes what he said. It isn't going to have any impact on Illinois, nor any impact on Izzo.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by illinicb

Of course it isn't and to think it is, is ludicrous. When Thomas was hired everyone with a brain in their head knew that he would be looking at the two revenue sport coaches in particular. The football team didn't lose six in a row because MT didn't give a meaningless vote of confidence to Zook and the basketball team didn't make the tourney because MT didn't offer Bruce an extension mid season. This team had flaws that were revealed in the long run. Blaming MT for this is like blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing to the Marlins. See the definition of the phrase "red herring".

Originally Posted by illinicb

I obviously agree, but I don't fault Izzo that much because I don't think it is a big deal. It really means squadoosh. Izzo spoke out of emotion. I don't expect an apology because he believes what he said. It isn't going to have any impact on Illinois, nor any impact on Izzo.

Agree on both counts.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by pizzaman

I guess you answered my question. You care what he said. I don't.

You don't care because you don't think it will have an impact, as I understand it. I don't know if it will have an impact or not. That's not my point. I mostly object to Izzo taking what I consider unjustified shots at Mike Thomas. The only reason Izzo has a platform is because he's Izzo. I'd rather he stick to his own business.

The odd thing for me is that I'm an unabashed Izzo fan. But I consider his comments about MT, in particular, out of line, uninformed, and unjustified. MT's a big boy, though, and I'm sure he'll get over it. He did the right thing, the right way, IMO, and he no doubt knows that, no matter what an outsider like Izzo has to say.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

Agree on both counts.

I agree, too, but that doesn't make it right. It would be consistent with the Izzo I so much admire were he to contact Thomas privately and apologize for his outburst and the personal attacks. It's too much to expect a public retraction. If he reaches out to Thomas privately, we'll likely never know.

Strong personal emotions sometimes cloud better judgment. I speak from experience . . .

[pdxillini]

Originally Posted by ct3illini

This guy is really trying to undermine our coaching search.

Right, because Izzo is a cynical, conniving slime ball - not a guy who has deep loyalty to a friend, strong opinions about the direction of his profession, and the human capacity for error and letting his feelings unduly influence his conclusions.

JFC, some of you guys are just shameful.

[Lafong]

Izzo should watch Godfather II. Listen to Hyman Roth when he says "this is the business we're in", then take a chill pill.

Anyway, if he can spew over-dramatic hyperbole about MT on national TV, so can we about Izzo on this board.

MT is on our team now, and we need to stand with him. (didn't Michael Corleone say that to Fredo?)

[ct3illini]

Originally Posted by pdxillini

Right, because Izzo is a cynical, conniving slime ball - not a guy who has deep loyalty to a friend, strong opinions about the direction of his profession, and the human capacity for error and letting his feelings unduly influence his conclusions.

JFC, some of you guys are just shameful.

Wow, if only I could let my feelings unduly influence my conclusions in my own profession, and rant publicly, attacking other people's integrity at other institutions that are rivals to mine, and openly state that a position in question has "difficulties", to poison public perception of a future search...

That, I would agree is being SHAMEFUL, and extremely unprofessional. If you think Izzo doesn't know the potential impact of his statements on the upcoming search and the lines he is crossing, you re kidding yourself.

[KJKobs]

https://twitter.com/BTNBrentYarina

Good to see very-former Illinois coach Bruce Weber back at the #b1gtourney

[illini80]

Originally Posted by KJKobs

https://twitter.com/BTNBrentYarina

Makes me a little sad to see him not wearing orange.

[Seagee]

Originally Posted by ct3illini

Wow, if only I could let my feelings unduly influence my conclusions in my own profession, and rant publicly, attacking other people's integrity at other institutions that are rivals to mine, and openly state that a position in question has "difficulties", to poison public perception of a future search...

That, I would agree is being SHAMEFUL, and extremely unprofessional. If you think Izzo doesn't know the potential impact of his statements on the upcoming search and the lines he is crossing, you re kidding yourself.

I too am/was an Izzo fan. But in a back-handed way he also is blaming this season's collapse solely on the players not executing––implying that they heard Thomas' words and then suddenly stopped buying in. This ignores the fact that our offensive struggles have been constant for the last 5 years with multiple rosters of players.

Bruce is a great guy, but we had a one-dimensional, perimeter-heavy style of offense that was never adapted to either our opponents or own teams' strengths / weaknesses. If coaches are happy to cash multi-million dollar checks based on the performances of 19 year olds, then they also have to be accountable when those performances fall short, whatever the reason may be. As Dan points out, we already had lost 5 of 6 when MT made the evaluation comment so the causation argument is simply factually incorrect.

[Seagee]

Originally Posted by illini80

Makes me a little sad to see him not wearing orange.

At least he's not wearing a Spartans hat...

[BrooksTaylorFan]

I understand what Izzo is saying and maybe Thomas could have given Weber a little more support, but it doesn't make up for the fact that Weber refused to make any changes. The home Iowa game was the one game he actually started the best players and even ML and Paul played well off the bench and then what did he do the next game? Back to the same old thing. His unwillingness to make changes and play his bench is what put us in a tailspin.

[Hoppy2105]

Originally Posted by illinicb

Blaming MT for this is like blaming Bartman for the Cubs losing to the Marlins. See the definition of the phrase "red herring".

But it WAS his fault!!

[Techslacker]

I'd say some of you are the ones with the self entitlement and just not getting it.

Izzo was dead on about how it affects the players. Klee has stated as much about how the freshmen were shook up after Thomas did that. People would be naive to believe it didn't affect the upperclassmen and coaching staff in some way as well.

I'm sure as some are reading this they've got those million dollar figures going through their heads or thinking about how the athletes have it made anyways. These are people. It doesn't matter what kind of benefits and salaries they have. They're people that can have their performance affected by people above them and the comments they make just like anybody else.

Just to be clear I don't have a problem with Bruce being let go. It's the manner in which this has occurred that really bothers me. Either MT has no clue and has a bad disconnect with people or he was pressured into doing what he did...or both. Regardless it's pretty sad. The icing on the cake seems to be making JH the interim coach. He has zero, zip, nada head coaching experience. While the Illini might do something positive in the NIT should they be invited, such a move to make someone who has no head coaching experience the interim head coach isn't a rational decision by someone in such a profession.

I can only say that I hope MT hits a homerun on Weber's replacement and doesn't break the athletic dept in the process should it happen.

[Techslacker]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

I understand what Izzo is saying and maybe Thomas could have given Weber a little more support, but it doesn't make up for the fact that Weber refused to make any changes. The home Iowa game was the one game he actually started the best players and even ML and Paul played well off the bench and then what did he do the next game? Back to the same old thing. His unwillingness to make changes and play his bench is what put us in a tailspin.

How do you know that he wasn't starting the best players in practice after the Iowa game?

This year's results certainly should have been better but remember that many analysts had Illinois projected somewhere around 6th with no idea of knowing that the B10 would be this strong coming into the season.

The thing that hurt Bruce more than anything were the results of the last two years. His comments about not creating an atmosphere of toughness were dead on although that really started much earlier than the 3 years he stated. He babied those guys wayyy too much. Why in hell would you let your star player decide to sit out from starting at Ohio St so a freshman with little experience could start in your place? Stuff like that was just stupid.

Playing the bench and talking about schemes had little to do with the issues.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by illinois_hustle

From which perspective? Probably not his, and that's all that matters since they are his comments, not yours. You may want him to shut up, but he's more than earned the right to say exactly what he did. I'm sure he's OK with the consequences.

I'd love to have a few more friends like Tom Izzo.

Agree or disagree with his comments, I totally agree with that. I could not imagine a guy that I'd more prefer to have my back.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by Illinipopo

Very long time reader, first time poster. I was beating the "Fire Weber" drum for a few years now. I must say, I took no joy in watching his press conference today. For the first time, I felt bad about the stuff I had said. That being said, I'm excited for the new direction we may be going. Good Luck to Bruce, just not against us! I know he'll do very well at his next job. The pressure is now on Thomas to deliever big! And he better, because if he doesn't, if he swings and misses, our program will be eaten alive by media and coaching world.

Nice first post.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Techslacker

I'd say some of you are the ones with the self entitlement and just not getting it.

Izzo was dead on about how it affects the players. Klee has stated as much about how the freshmen were shook up after Thomas did that. People would be naive to believe it didn't affect the upperclassmen and coaching staff in some way as well.

I'm sure as some are reading this they've got those million dollar figures going through their heads or thinking about how the athletes have it made anyways. These are people. It doesn't matter what kind of benefits and salaries they have. They're people that can have their performance affected by people above them and the comments they make just like anybody else.

Just to be clear I don't have a problem with Bruce being let go. It's the manner in which this has occurred that really bothers me. Either MT has no clue and has a bad disconnect with people or he was pressured into doing what he did...or both. Regardless it's pretty sad. The icing on the cake seems to be making JH the interim coach. He has zero, zip, nada head coaching experience. While the Illini might do something positive in the NIT should they be invited, such a move to make someone who has no head coaching experience the interim head coach isn't a rational decision by someone in such a profession.

I find it pretty incredible that despite Weber himself admitting he has not created a culture of toughness in the basketball program, some continue to blame external factors when the team failed to be tough in the face of adversity.

Unless Thomas explicitly stated Weber would be back next year (which would have been wrong), his job status was going to be openly questioned. It didn't become a national headline until Izzo himself made it one.

Didn't Thomas give the team a pep talk before the Iowa win? I guess we should give him credit for that one.

[IlliniRon]

Originally Posted by Dan

A few thoughts on Tom Izzo's rant on Bruce Weber's firing (audio link)

Tom Izzo was out of line for his rant yesterday, but he did come full circle.

Izzo created the story that Mike Thomas is evil and totally at fault for Illinois' hoops season failure because he went on the radio failed to give BW a vote of confidence.

Tom Izzo set the stage to defend Bruce Weber even before Mike Thomas went on the radio February 11th. But when MT did go on the air, Izzo was ready. He dispatched an mlive writer to blast the Illini AD, then a week later ESPN picked up on the story during the Ohio State telecast, and only then after being told to be upset by the Sports Leader where UI fans complaining about MT (10 days later).

Here's the Tom Izzo / Mike Thomas sequence of events, this is copied from my Feb 24nd post in the Ohio State postgame thread.

Notice the Save Bruce Izzoification of the story began prior to MT's Feb 11th radio appearance-

# 01/30 Izzo says Weber does it the right way (Supinie - MSU @ IL pregame article)
# 02/11 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline (the first MT radio appearance on SS)
# 02/13 Tom Izzo defends Bruce Weber (can't find audio, but referenced in the 2/14 article)
# 02/14 Illinois coach Bruce Weber might deserve to be fired, but Illini AD Mike Thomas isn't helping (BOOM!)
# 02/18 Mike Thomas on Saturday Sportsline
# 02/20 Michigan State's Izzo defends Weber: 'He's a great coach' (Video- Tom Izzo on Chicago Tribune Live)
# 02/21 Illinois at Ohio State on ESPN (BOOM!)
# 03/09 Bruce Weber fired, Tom Izzo goes on epic rant (FINALE)

Here's the articles from Illini writers about Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance-

# Thomas' criteria doesn't favor Weber (Mark Tupper)
# Illinois AD will evaluate Bruce Weber (Scott Powers)
# New athletic director raises bar for Bruce Weber, Illini (Supinie)
# Weber's under the whether (Loren Tate)

Pretty minimal. Nothing from Paul Klee. Scott Powers was the only one who utilized the phrase "vote of confidence".

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio appearance -- which was the first time he addressed Bruce Weber's status on the radio -- was not a big story at that time.

MT's Feb 11th radio interview was interesting for a lot of die-hard Illini fans, but in the grand scheme of Illini news at that time it wasn't a huge story.

Most people, in the thread here and elsewhere, after hearing MT on Feb 11th concluded that Weber was most likely done at Illinois after this season. It wasn't a huge revelation. It wasn't huge news. Illinois at that time had lost 5 of their last 6. It just seemed like that was the inevitable conclusion to this hoops campaign.

Mike Thomas' February 11th radio interview became huge news later because Tom Izzo, mlive.com, and ESPN went full-volume amplification. But that happened later. Not on February 11th & 12th.

Izzo is so out of line with his rants about Weber and our AD. He's a personal friend of Weber as everyone knows, which is fine. But to go off like that and feel sorry for the players and the profession, and blame the AD for the team's losses, just ridiculous in my opinion. Dan, thanks for showing how Izzo is a cheap spokesperson for Weber.

[illini80]

Why everyone is so upset about the Izzo comments is beyond me. Why do you care so much? Do you really believe that he is damaging the U of I by giving his opinions on some things? Or does it is strike an air of truth that cuts into the disdain that many want to feel for Weber?

I don't care what Izzo thinks at all. Nor do I care what the rest of the Big 10 coaches think or say about it. It doesn't change anything that happened this year. But I do believe there is truth in what he said. What's done is done and it's not going to change, so I'm ready to move forward. Let's hire a great coach and we'll all be happy won't we?