John Groce's Illini Coaching Staff - Dustin Ford, Paris Parham, Jamall Walker

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by sugmeister

I disagree with this GHD.... from what I recall Tracy Webster was TERRIBLE as a lead recruiter. he certainly didn't land anyone that I know of and it was a huge blessing when he left.
Might have been purely coincidence that BP, DJ, and JB all committed after JH got here but I doubt it.

do I have my facts straight on when these guys committed? its been a while. I can't remember when JR committed either.

Webster was the lead recruiter on Richmond, Davis, Frazier and would have landed Darius Miller for Illinois if Tracy hadn't moved to Kentucky. People blamed Webster for our problems but Weber was much to blame for his recruiting strategy, in particular taking forever to offer kids.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by UofIChE06

Some people seem to understand while others do not. Keeping JHoward increases Groce's chances with most of the '13 and '14 class. That is basically indisputable. With Howard you do not have to start the recruiting process from scratch. I think most everyone is in agreement that in the long term Groce and whatever staff he assembles will do fine in recruiting. The debate is concerning the next two classes because they have a plethora of talent in them and people really don't what to see UI miss out on people they could have gotten with Howard still there.

Yes, it is disputable. It all depends upon (a) who is hired instead of Howard; and (b) what existing recruiting relationships they bring to the table.

[MrQuist]

Originally Posted by Illinell

I think the difference is that JH was bringing in the talent despite coach Weber. In hindsight, I don't think too many 17-18 yo kids were psyched out of their minds with BAM. JH and his ability to relate are what brought them in. All of the tweets from earlier in the week from our freshman are evidence of that.

That is rediculous.

[combes]

Originally Posted by orangekrush117

If you're Groce, why not give Jerrance an opportunity to be on your staff to secure the 2013-2014 classes, and then push for him to take a head coach job at a mid-major. Solves the problem of being able to bring in your own people (eventually) while at the same time taking advantage of Howard until you get your feet on the ground and into some doors in Chicago.

If "securing" the 2013/2014 classes meant that for sure we would get Parker, Nunn, Okafor, Alexander, etc., then I am for that. I think keeping Howard would help in the short term with relationships in the city. But what if we bring in Robert Smith or Dennis Gates or Paris Parnham? They probably even have some advantages that Jerrance doesn't have since they are from Chicago and not Peoria.

However, when has Jerrance secured the top Chicago players in any class yet? I am not trying to rip on Jerrance. I just think his recruiting is a bit overrated so far.

As lead recruiter:

Jerrance brought in Abrams, Henry, Shaw, Langford, Egwu, Djimbe, and Jalen James. Only Abrams has contributed much so far.

Price brought in Leonard, Paul, Griffey, Bertrand, and Malcolm Hill. Leonard and Paul were our two best players and Hill is our best 2013 recruit so far. imo

McClain brought in DJ.

Webster brought in Richmond.

Head was a legacy recruit who came at his brother's urging to play for Weber and was ready to commit to Illinois before Jerrance even came on board. Having Jerrance didn't hurt when it came time for Head to commit, but the recruitment was almost over by then.

Jerrance is the lead recruiter in Chicago and we have not gotten the big time players out of the city so far (other than Henry who I consider a big time player down the road). But we have not gotten the guys that have gone to Kentucky, Kansas, UConn, etc. for whatever reason. Are they all cheating?

I would love Jerrance to stay, and I think he has done a good job. I just don't see the extra love for him. He has done a good, not great, job. imo

[icasaman]

Originally Posted by UofIChE06

Some people seem to understand while others do not. Keeping JHoward increases Groce's chances with most of the '13 and '14 class. That is basically indisputable. With Howard you do not have to start the recruiting process from scratch. I think most everyone is in agreement that in the long term Groce and whatever staff he assembles will do fine in recruiting. The debate is concerning the next two classes because they have a plethora of talent in them and people really don't what to see UI miss out on people they could have gotten with Howard still there.

I'd say Groce being here increases the chances with Nunn, with or without Howard. And I'd say the same for Larry Austin.

And any chance, slim or whatever, we have with Parker rests solely on Groce's ability to connect with him. The assistant won't have a thing to do with where Parker goes.

[HoopBoss]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Webster was the lead recruiter on Richmond, Davis, Frazier and would have landed Darius Miller for Illinois if Tracy hadn't moved to Kentucky. People blamed Webster for our problems but Weber was much to blame for his recruiting strategy, in particular taking forever to offer kids.

Looking back, I think if the chemistry were good, Webster would have stayed. But he took a chance trying to improve things for himself and family. Who can really blame him.

Hindsight always 20/20.......... can't go back.

[ILLcoach]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Way to perpetuate stereotypes, bigotry, idiocy and racism all wrapped up in one tidy post.

Has it occurred to you that if your white kids might like you because you are not a dork maybe THAT is why your black kids like you? Maybe it has nothing to do with your race?

"I could be be wrong, but I doubt it!" Relaying what I see on the inside and what "I" experienced as a player. Have you walked into a school lunch room lately? Our kids up here (I'll comment on what I see) self segregate. The caucasions that are sprinkled in with the brothas are athelete's. So when (I'll use your words not mine, but I'm perpetuating bigotry) "blacks" sit with "blacks" it's because they are cool, not because they are culturally similar? Hmmm, congrats you have disproved the similarity attraction theory(SAE). I will now email my social psychology professor and tell him that he is wrong and you are right.:laugh: Seriously though. Don't read into it more than it is. I never said I was cool to them. I'm 40. They look at old people different, but old people with similarities they respect more is all. Reread my post. The cultural likes and dislikes we share as "african americans" enhances their comfort level with me as opposed to Coach Kozlowski. The same can be said for caucasion coaches. Why does observation have to be racism? I didn't say "blacks" are better, "whites" are inferior". I commented on my experiences in my school/community. I've been "black" all my life. I've been the only "black" in my class/school more than a few times. I've played and coached more than have my life. Far from a bigot friend. It is what it is and not just here.

[Illiniwek06]

Originally Posted by ILLcoach

"I could be be wrong, but I doubt it!" Relaying what I see on the inside and what "I" experienced as a player. Have you walked into a school lunch room lately? Our kids up here (I'll comment on what I see) self segregate. The caucasions that are sprinkled in with the brothas are athelete's. So when (I'll use your words not mine, but I'm perpetuating bigotry) "blacks" sit with "blacks" it's because they are cool, not because they are culturally similar? Hmmm, congrats you have disproved the similarity attraction theory(SAE). I will now email my social psychology professor and tell him that he is wrong and you are right.:laugh: Seriously though. Don't read into it more than it is. I never said I was cool to them. I'm 40. They look at old people different, but old people with similarities they respect more is all. Reread my post. The cultural likes and dislikes we share as "african americans" enhances their comfort level with me as opposed to Coach Kozlowski. The same can be said for caucasion coaches. Why does observation have to be racism? I didn't say "blacks" are better, "whites" are inferior". I commented on my experiences in my school/community. I've been "black" all my life. I've been the only "black" in my class/school more than a few times. I've played and coached more than have my life. Far from a bigot friend. It is what it is and not just here.

I know you're responding to a post, which initially started off as a discussion on coaching staff, but this "similarity attraction theory" and social psychology stuff seems a bit off topic...

[Illinell]

Originally Posted by MrQuist

That is rediculous.

Okay, thanks for sharing. I also appreciate the insights you shared to substantiate your opinion.

[bigballinman]

Originally Posted by Selfconfour

Since Self is likely looking to add 2 Assistant Coaches, you think Wayne McClain might have a shot? Didn't BS try and take Wayne to KU when he left?

I say we give KU Wayne and let them hire Gates. We keep Jerrance!!!

I got the feeling were going to lose jerrance. He would have to take to big of a pay cut. I think he was making over a hundred grand and close to two hundred grand if im not mistaken. He had got a huge pay raise when he turned away kentucky a few years ago. If its true that there is only 450 grand to spread to all of the assistants i just dont think they will be able to keep jh. I dont understand our AD i mean he throws all this money at smart and maybe stevens but i feel like he is low balling these guys. This upsets me as a illini fan because not only do we lose out on the big name head coach but now we may miss out on keeping jh. This SUCKS.

[ILLcoach]

Originally Posted by IlliniBacker

Thank you Dayton.

The original poster never mentioned if he was a good basketball coach or not. Isn't that really what it comes down to?

I take a pragmatic approach to this stuff. Kids ultimately want 2 things - even if they don't admit this is what they really want.
1. A coach that cares about them as a person. That's kind of fluffy but everyone has a second sense about this and knows if it is the case or not.
2. A coach that can make them better and get them to the "next level", whatever that level may be for that player.

Sure, it's nice to be able to relate to kids, but if 1 & 2 above are met that is all you need as a coach.

Really? Then why did Weber get fired?
The coaches that get kids to buy in are great also. Reaching kids (like a teacher) should be 3. I guess my perspective is different because I've played and coached. Coached very well I might add. Teach fundamental players that win alot. Ever heard of Chasson Randle? Coached him for 4 years. Pete Mikeal? Helped him too.

[Illiniwek06]

Originally Posted by ILLcoach

Really? Then why did Weber get fired?
The coaches that get kids to buy in are great also. Reaching kids (like a teacher) should be 3. I guess my perspective is different because I've played and coached. Coached very well I might add. Teach fundamental players that win alot. Ever heard of Chasson Randle? Coached him for 4 years. Pete Mikeal? Helped him too.

I think BW failed #2:

2. A coach that can make them better and get them to the "next level", whatever that level may be for that player.

[ILLcoach]

Originally Posted by Jani Lane

You listen to Jay Z and you have MC debates?!?! You must have so much swag that even the green kids want to play for you!!

:laugh: The culture baby, the culture! That's what i'm saying. The kids will run through a wall for guys like this. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is stat quo or it "has to be this way". Just relaying my experience as a african american coach of mostly african american boys.
If you have a guy like this or access to one it could be valuable is all I'm saying. Based on what I hear this is "Snacks".

[jcgoldie]

If they lose Howard and have any difficulty securing one of these other Chicago guys for money or whatever reason, I would really like to see them give Deon a long look. He has a couple years head coaching experience in community college down here in my hometown and he has been successful. He is charismatic and intelligent and evidently a good coach. He always had great technique and should be able to pass that on to the big guys. He's also from Chicago and I think he would give an awesome face to the program from a recruiting standpoint of being a hometown kid who went down to Champaign and achieved some success with the Illini and parlayed that into a decent career even though he never made a splash in the NBA...

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by jcgoldie

If they lose Howard and have any difficulty securing one of these other Chicago guys for money or whatever reason, I would really like to see them give Deon a long look. He has a couple years head coaching experience in community college down here in my hometown and he has been successful. He is charismatic and intelligent and evidently a good coach. He always had great technique and should be able to pass that on to the big guys. He's also from Chicago and I think he would give an awesome face to the program from a recruiting standpoint of being a hometown kid who went down to Champaign and achieved some success with the Illini and parlayed that into a decent career even though he never made a splash in the NBA...

I would be fine with Deon on the staff. If Danny Manning can be a staffer at KU, why not Deon at UI?

[ILLcoach]

Originally Posted by Illiniwek06

I know you're responding to a post, which initially started off as a discussion on coaching staff, but this "similarity attraction theory" and social psychology stuff seems a bit off topic...

Kinda. Snacks is important is the point of it all. For the aforementioned reasons. Someone insinuated that interpersonal connections with players or recruits aren't important hence the responses. I got you Illiniwek. Onward!

[ILLcoach]

Originally Posted by Illiniwek06

I think BW failed #2:

2. A coach that can make them better and get them to the "next level", whatever that level may be for that player.

Agree!

[Illiniwek06]

Originally Posted by ILLcoach

Kinda. Snacks is important is the point of it all. For the aforementioned reasons. Someone insinuated that interpersonal connections with players or recruits aren't important hence the responses. I got you Illiniwek. Onward!

I hear you on Snacks. I'd obviously love for him to stay to keep the connections he has already made in the Chicago area. It seems that JG will be bringing on guys with ties to Chi, so I'm optimistic that losing Snacks won't put us too far behind. Glass half-full thinking, I know.

[ILLcoach]

Originally Posted by jcgoldie

If they lose Howard and have any difficulty securing one of these other Chicago guys for money or whatever reason, I would really like to see them give Deon a long look. He has a couple years head coaching experience in community college down here in my hometown and he has been successful. He is charismatic and intelligent and evidently a good coach. He always had great technique and should be able to pass that on to the big guys. He's also from Chicago and I think he would give an awesome face to the program from a recruiting standpoint of being a hometown kid who went down to Champaign and achieved some success with the Illini and parlayed that into a decent career even though he never made a splash in the NBA...

Does anyone else think that say...by the grace of GOD..Groce hires R.Smith..his learning curve for recruiting and etc would be so huge that he wouldn't have an immediate impact? Or, is that not what we want? Immediate results. I'm not convinced just hiring him brings all the CHI talent. Someone has to sell the program, the school, the fans, IlliniosLoyalty.com etc.

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by Illiniwek06

I hear you on Snacks. I'd obviously love for him to stay to keep the connections he has already made in the Chicago area. It seems that JG will be bringing on guys with ties to Chi, so I'm optimistic that losing Snacks won't put us too far behind. Glass half-full thinking, I know.

If Snacks leaves Illinois and it doesn't cost us more than one transfer from the current roster, I'll say no harm done. It looks like Jalen James is coming to Illinois regardless of who's on staff. If Hill decommits because of Jerrance leaving, so be it. If Groce and his staff can recruit like we're hoping they can, losing one commit will be insignificant.

[IlliniKat91]

Originally Posted by ILLcoach

Does anyone else think that say...by the grace of GOD..Groce hires R.Smith..his learning curve for recruiting and etc would be so huge that he wouldn't have an immediate impact? Or, is that not what we want? Immediate results. I'm not convinced just hiring him brings all the CHI talent. Someone has to sell the program, the school, the fans, IlliniosLoyalty.com etc.

I like the idea, but what would happen with other CPL coaches? What are the chances that they freeze us out because they're salty Smith got a Big Ten job and they weren't looked at? I supposed that him coaching to a 5-time State Champ record helps us out as far as his credentials go, but humans hold grudges.

When there's serious money involved and prestige and a chance to move up to the next level, well, I wouldn't put anything past human pettiness.

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by ILLcoach

Does anyone else think that say...by the grace of GOD..Groce hires R.Smith..his learning curve for recruiting and etc would be so huge that he wouldn't have an immediate impact? Or, is that not what we want? Immediate results. I'm not convinced just hiring him brings all the CHI talent. Someone has to sell the program, the school, the fans, IlliniosLoyalty.com etc.

I have a feeling Smith won't be on the staff. But I'd love it if Groce would designate one spot on his staff as a "wild card," where he'd be open to hiring someone he doesn't know because it makes a lot of sense with respect to Chicago recruiting. Or maybe that wild card slot is filled by Jerrance. Either way, I would like it if Groce put some faith in Thomas to recommend a staffer with Chicago ties.

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by IlliniKat91

I like the idea, but what would happen with other CPL coaches? What are the chances that they freeze us out because they're salty Smith got a Big Ten job and they weren't looked at? I supposed that him coaching to a 5-time State Champ record helps us out as far as his credentials go, but humans hold grudges.

When there's serious money involved and prestige and a chance to move up to the next level, well, I wouldn't put anything past human pettiness.

Paul Klee has been bringing this point up a lot lately, and it's a valid concern. You would think other coaches would realize why they weren't offered the job: Because Smith has won 5 state titles, and they haven't. But, of course, we're dealing with fragile egos here, aren't we?

[james81]

The drama surrounding whether JH goes or stays is overblown. This is now Groce's team and no one is going to recruit harder than him, especially over the next couple of years which will determine his success in his "once in a lifetime opportunity" to use his words. From the little bit of feedback we are getting, such as from James and the Nunn family, it seems like he is off to a running start. It's Groce's style of play, his demeanor, his interaction with the recruits and their families that will define our recruiting success. Right now, all that recruits are interested in is knowing about John Groce.

[ILLcoach]

Originally Posted by Illinell

I think the difference is that JH was bringing in the talent despite coach Weber. In hindsight, I don't think too many 17-18 yo kids were psyched out of their minds with BAM. JH and his ability to relate are what brought them in. All of the tweets from earlier in the week from our freshman are evidence of that.

I feel what your saying. Some of those 4 star kids that came may have been on the fence because of BAM, but Snacks was able to push it through. The big one's missed are a result of BAM. Randle,Davis,Blackshear....whether it was too many guards, or the system/offense was either boring or didn't suit that players strengths is who's fault???