John Groce's Illini Coaching Staff - Dustin Ford, Paris Parham, Jamall Walker

[Dan]

Moved some posts (based upon HeartofaChampion's post) to a new thread, "John Groce's player development philosophy: Chart everything"-

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forum...ad.php?t=17903

[combes]

Originally Posted by Botb9

Very rarely do new coaches keep prior assistants on staff. I don't see why anyone is surprised by this.

Ironically, our last two coaches did. Weber kept McClain. Self kept Judson. However, both of those guys came from staffs that were leaving on their own accord. Jerrance was part of a fired staff.

[bombayIllini]

Originally Posted by combes

Ironically, our last two coaches did. Weber kept McClain. Self kept Judson. However, both of those guys came from staffs that were leaving on their own accord. Jerrance was part of a fired staff.

The story about McClain is that he was offered a position at KU and that RG talked him into staying at UoI with an offer of a (pretty much) life-time position. (If he survives this cleaning and has a position at the DIA, this story could be confirmed.)

[sugmeister]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

The last thing you want is a divided staff or split loyalties among the players. In particular, Groce is know for being demanding of his players and I'm not sure how that would work if Jerrance was kissing their boo boos behind the scenes. I can see why Groce might want to go a different direction.

I don't know why we automatically assume JH was the one responsible for a split staff or that he was the one kissing anybody's boo boos. I know Klee and HOC have both alluded to the disfunctional staff and such but how do we know it wasn't Weber who was kissing any boo boos?

It was from Weber's own mouth that he said he didn't instill a culture of toughness and that his players were mollycoddled. it was weber who didn't sit down Tisdale, Davis, and Dmac when they were obviously having problems their jr and sr years. It was Weber who didn't address the BP/DJ/ML rumored problems this season.

I'm not saying JG is wrong to want his own guys but I do think we are going to miss JH. Do I think he is irreplaceable? No. But I think he will be missed certainly. And I am not going to lay much of the blame at his feet for the previous staff's problems. We all know who had the final say on that staff and we all know the results. They pretty much speak for themselves.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by sugmeister

I don't know why we automatically assume JH was the one responsible for a split staff or that he was the one kissing anybody's boo boos. I know Klee and HOC have both alluded to the disfunctional staff and such but how do we know it wasn't Weber who was kissing any boo boos?

It was from Weber's own mouth that he said he didn't instill a culture of toughness and that his players were mollycoddled. it was weber who didn't sit down Tisdale, Davis, and Dmac when they were obviously having problems their jr and sr years. It was Weber who didn't address the BP/DJ/ML rumored problems this season.

I'm not saying JG is wrong to want his own guys but I do think we are going to miss JH. Do I think he is irreplaceable? No. But I think he will be missed certainly. And I am not going to lay much of the blame at his feet for the previous staff's problems. We all know who had the final say on that staff and we all know the results. They pretty much speak for themselves.

I think you would run into times where the current players would favor talking to Howard over Groce because they know him better. Not to mention some high school and AAU coaches would do the same thing. With players and recruits reaffirmed, we can live without Howard.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by sugmeister

I don't know why we automatically assume JH was the one responsible for a split staff or that he was the one kissing anybody's boo boos. I know Klee and HOC have both alluded to the disfunctional staff and such but how do we know it wasn't Weber who was kissing any boo boos?

It was from Weber's own mouth that he said he didn't instill a culture of toughness and that his players were mollycoddled. it was weber who didn't sit down Tisdale, Davis, and Dmac when they were obviously having problems their jr and sr years. It was Weber who didn't address the BP/DJ/ML rumored problems this season.

I'm not saying JG is wrong to want his own guys but I do think we are going to miss JH. Do I think he is irreplaceable? No. But I think he will be missed certainly. And I am not going to lay much of the blame at his feet for the previous staff's problems. We all know who had the final say on that staff and we all know the results. They pretty much speak for themselves.

We had reports from HOC and others that Jerrance was often the one telling his recruits what they wanted to hear, even if it contradicted the message Weber was trying to get across. As for Weber not addressing problems, I think you are making that up. He might not have been effective at addressing various problems with various players, but Weber certainly tried.

[Chris Yates]

I understand why John Groce has made the decision not to retain Jerrance Howard. It's Groce's team and he should be surrounded by the people he trusts. But I think he'll rue the day that he showed JH the door. This cuts the last link to our most successful past (and thereby alienates guys like Dee and DWill), it strips the younger players of the person they trusted most on campus, and it gives Snacks HUGE motivation to out-recruit Groce and his staff in Illinois. Now Groce and Thomas own this operation. As an Illini fan, I hope this works out well for them. And I readily acknowledge that this is their prerogative. But I'm not happy at all about where this may lead, and I feel terrible for Jerrance Howard, who gave everything he had to the University of Illinois.

[sugmeister]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

We had reports from HOC and others that Jerrance was often the one telling his recruits what they wanted to hear, even if it contradicted the message Weber was trying to get across. As for Weber not addressing problems, I think you are making that up. He might not have been effective at addressing various problems with various players, but Weber certainly tried.

making it up? I doubt that since it also came from weber's own mouth when he talked about probably should have benched BP3 and ML long before he did. and the "benching" he finally gave them was that in name only since he brought them both right into the game.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by Chris Yates

I understand why John Groce has made the decision not to retain Jerrance Howard. It's Groce's team and he should be surrounded by the people he trusts. But I think he'll rue the day that he showed JH the door. This cuts the last link to our most successful past (and thereby alienates guys like Dee and DWill), it strips the younger players of the person they trusted most on campus, and it gives Snacks HUGE motivation to out-recruit Groce and his staff in Illinois. Now Groce and Thomas own this operation. As an Illini fan, I hope this works out well for them. And I readily acknowledge that this is their prerogative. But I'm not happy at all about where this may lead, and I feel terrible for Jerrance Howard, who gave everything he had to the University of Illinois.

Hopefully Groce will be very successful and then we can hire Howard as our next coach when he is ready to move on. I think getting away from Illinois is a good move for JH if he still wants to become a HC sooner than later.

[sugmeister]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

I think you would run into times where the current players would favor talking to Howard over Groce because they know him better. Not to mention some high school and AAU coaches would do the same thing. With players and recruits reaffirmed, we can live without Howard.

I agree brooks, that they might favor talking to Howard over Groce to begin with. I tend to think that would lessen as time goes on.

no doubt we can and will live without him. I would have preferred to live with him.

having said that I really like JG's previous 2 choices and am hopeful I will also like his 3rd. as well as his choice for DOBD and such.

[Bogieredmond]

Originally Posted by Chris Yates

I understand why John Groce has made the decision not to retain Jerrance Howard. It's Groce's team and he should be surrounded by the people he trusts. But I think he'll rue the day that he showed JH the door. This cuts the last link to our most successful past (and thereby alienates guys like Dee and DWill), it strips the younger players of the person they trusted most on campus, and it gives Snacks HUGE motivation to out-recruit Groce and his staff in Illinois. Now Groce and Thomas own this operation. As an Illini fan, I hope this works out well for them. And I readily acknowledge that this is their prerogative. But I'm not happy at all about where this may lead, and I feel terrible for Jerrance Howard, who gave everything he had to the University of Illinois.

+1
Im really surprised by the number of posters who seem ready to dismiss what Jerrance accomplished here, or who dont seem to recogmize his potential to be a very effective D1 coach. Of course Groce has the right to make the call to replace Jerrance. But i really hope it wasnt becUse he feared being undercut by JH. None of us knows what happens behind the scenes, but from his days as a player when he rallied teammates behind BW to his support of the players as this year's team imploded, there was ample evidence of his loyalty and professionalism. i wish him great success in the future (but not at our expense!)

[james81]

Originally Posted by Chris Yates

I understand why John Groce has made the decision not to retain Jerrance Howard. It's Groce's team and he should be surrounded by the people he trusts. But I think he'll rue the day that he showed JH the door. This cuts the last link to our most successful past (and thereby alienates guys like Dee and DWill), it strips the younger players of the person they trusted most on campus, and it gives Snacks HUGE motivation to out-recruit Groce and his staff in Illinois. Now Groce and Thomas own this operation. As an Illini fan, I hope this works out well for them. And I readily acknowledge that this is their prerogative. But I'm not happy at all about where this may lead, and I feel terrible for Jerrance Howard, who gave everything he had to the University of Illinois.

I was hoping for Jerrance to stay, but I don't begrudge Groce for making the decision. You are right about the clean break with the past, but that is what Groce clearly wanted. His destiny will unfold rather quickly. and whatever unfolds, we have entered a new era of Illinois sports for both football and basketball. The issue is no longer what Dee and DWill think, but who will carry on their tradition, new players that will rise to the challenge. One thing appears clear to me: Groce believes he is up to the task before him--to revive Illinois basketball. I am more optimistic today that he might be able to do it than I was when he was hired.

[MTILLINOIS]

I'm sad that we couldn't make this work, Groce/Howard. It's time to move on and put the final nail in the coffin from the Weber era. It may be the best for all, even the kids on the team. Groce is the leader of this team. Let's move on. Go

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Chris Yates

I understand why John Groce has made the decision not to retain Jerrance Howard. It's Groce's team and he should be surrounded by the people he trusts. But I think he'll rue the day that he showed JH the door. This cuts the last link to our most successful past (and thereby alienates guys like Dee and DWill), it strips the younger players of the person they trusted most on campus, and it gives Snacks HUGE motivation to out-recruit Groce and his staff in Illinois. Now Groce and Thomas own this operation. As an Illini fan, I hope this works out well for them. And I readily acknowledge that this is their prerogative. But I'm not happy at all about where this may lead, and I feel terrible for Jerrance Howard, who gave everything he had to the University of Illinois.

I feel bad that we have to let go a loyal Illini and a good guy, but the rest of your account/predictions are a bit extreme IMO.

1. Wherever Jerrance ends up, how much extra motivation is this really going to give him to out recruit Illinois in their back yard? Most good coaches are going 100% all the time. Short of him using negative recruiting against his former school (which I don't see happening) I don't think Jerrance vs. Groce recruiting battles are going to be that big a deal. There's plenty of other schools to worry about.

2. It cuts the link to our most successful past but it also cuts the link to our more recent mediocrity. Is it nice for guys like Dee to still a know a guy on staff? Sure, but I don't see a lack of that being a tangible obstacle to getting wins on the court.

3. The younger players are close to JH, they won't be lost without him. From listening to Groce's former kids at OSU and OU he is a relationship oriented guy and really cares to develop a bond with the guys on his team. It could be argued that trusting an assistant before the head coach can be a bad thing too.

Bottom line, if Groce can recruit good players and coach them up, who cares? Its not like Jerrance is going to steal all our recruits nor is it like our players aren't resilient or open enough to listen to a new coach.

Similar to the VK situation, it'd be nice if things clicked but they rarely do in these scenarios.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by Chris Yates

I understand why John Groce has made the decision not to retain Jerrance Howard. It's Groce's team and he should be surrounded by the people he trusts. But I think he'll rue the day that he showed JH the door. This cuts the last link to our most successful past (and thereby alienates guys like Dee and DWill), it strips the younger players of the person they trusted most on campus, and it gives Snacks HUGE motivation to out-recruit Groce and his staff in Illinois. Now Groce and Thomas own this operation. As an Illini fan, I hope this works out well for them. And I readily acknowledge that this is their prerogative. But I'm not happy at all about where this may lead, and I feel terrible for Jerrance Howard, who gave everything he had to the University of Illinois.

C'mon Chris...Dee and DWill weren't staying around the program because of Snacks. They are classy guys who love the University of Illinois, not coach Howard. "Cutting the link to our most successful past" is the best way to get us to a more successful (hopefully) future. If the reports are true about Howard and his coddling players, and I have no reason to believe they aren't based on who the posters reporting such, then it was definitely time for him to move on.

Snacks isn't going to try and recruit well in an effort to "show Illinois what they missed". He's going to recruit well because he wants to be successful, become a head coach somewhere, and eventually end up back at Illinois. Alienating Illinois with an I'll-show-you approach isn't going to do that and is not the type of person Howard is.

This is the best scenario for everyone involved and I don't feel terrible for Jerrance. He's talented enough that he'll end up somewhere good and make good money. It's an unfortunate situation but not it's the end of Jerrance's coaching career or anything.

[JimmyChitwood]

Was there any proof at all that Jerrance could actually coach? Obviously, there is proof that he has the ability to recruit, but Groce makes it sound like that Jerrance's talents arent any better then the assistants he already has. If Jerrance wasnt going to bring much to the table in terms of actual coaching or developement then why keep him. He filled a big need during the Weber era because Weber was awful at recruiting. Groce must feel like he can do fine recruiting Chicago without JH. If I was the coach, I would probably want to start fresh as well. The last 5 years have been rough and a "clean slate" is needed really.

[saltygrapes]

Originally Posted by JimmyChitwood

Was there any proof at all that Jerrance could actually coach? Obviously, there is proof that he has the ability to recruit, but Groce makes it sound like that Jerrance's talents arent any better then the assistants he already has. If Jerrance wasnt going to bring much to the table in terms of actual coaching or developement then why keep him. He filled a big need during the Weber era because Weber was awful at recruiting. Groce must feel like he can do fine recruiting Chicago without JH. If I was the coach, I would probably want to start fresh as well. The last 5 years have been rough and a "clean slate" is needed really.

Agreed... good way of saying it.

[sugmeister]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

If the reports are true about Howard and his coddling players, and I have no reason to believe they aren't based on who the posters reporting such, then it was definitely time for him to move on.

This is the best scenario for everyone involved and I don't feel terrible for Jerrance. He's talented enough that he'll end up somewhere good and make good money. It's an unfortunate situation but not it's the end of Jerrance's coaching career or anything.

someone help me out here... HOC? Salty? what exactly was it that JH supposedly did to undercut weber? I missed about 10,000 posts on the massive 15,000 post new coach thread. I must not be a good soldier myself because if I can see things are being done that are simply not working, I would have a hard time keeping my mouth shut. especially if I was the salesman that helped sell a product and then as crandall head put it "but once I got there... things changed".

surely JH has to realize though that it is best for his career to move along and get some experience elsewhere. I still hate it though. Also gotta say that I hope JG is still the coach here 20 yrs frmo now and we're trying to figure out who takes the place of an Illinois Legend.

[FinalFour88]

If Groce truly needed Jerrance on staff to be successful, we hired the wrong guy.

[Thor015]

Jerrance has been great for Illinois. I hope he goes to a school with a coach he can learn from.

That way when he returns to Illinois in a different coaching era he will have that much better of a coaching experience.

Jerrance will always bleed for the illini.

[Lucy727]

From @prepbullseye on twitter

"If I had to guess where Jerrance Howard ends up at would say that Florida could be a good bet"

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by sugmeister

making it up? I doubt that since it also came from weber's own mouth when he talked about probably should have benched BP3 and ML long before he did. and the "benching" he finally gave them was that in name only since he brought them both right into the game.

Benching a player is just one way of addressing a problem. There are many other ways of addressing a problem. Just because Weber didn't bench those earlier in the season doesn't mean he wasn't working to address problems.

[UofIChE06]

Originally Posted by Lucy727

From @prepbullseye on twitter

"If I had to guess where Jerrance Howard ends up at would say that Florida could be a good bet"

That's only been said here as far back as 2 months ago. There or Louisville were always JH's two destinations given his goal of becoming a HC sooner than later and desire for that job to be at a good mid major.

[ryls]

Disappointing news, I am excited about Groce but I think this was a mistake. I am amused by all the posters saying he wasn't that good and we won't miss him but oh by the way if he does become hot he will jump to come back here, maybe not after being fired. Deron and Dee may not feel as comftorable coming back now that all there guys are gone

[sugmeister]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Benching a player is just one way of addressing a problem. There are many other ways of addressing a problem. Just because Weber didn't bench those earlier in the season doesn't mean he wasn't working to address problems.

agree..... but playing time is the best weapon a coach has and whatever else he may have been doing failed miserably if you judge it by results. and he never really used the playing time card at all.