John Groce's Illini Coaching Staff - Dustin Ford, Paris Parham, Jamall Walker

[illinisc]

Originally Posted by combes

And yet he might be. He has just as much chance to be a superstar as Deon. imo

If we hire Deon, it is because he played ball here. Other than that, his resume is rather skimpy. imo

I am not against hiring Deon, though. But Groce might think there is someone out there who is a better fit. And, then again, maybe Deon is that fit.

I don't disagree with you at all. I think at this point any assistant that Groce chooses will have a significant amount of risk attached to him. I personally think Deon's a long shot but I hope he's given the same kind of consideration that any other potential candidate would receive.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by combes

If we hire Deon, it is because he played ball here. Other than that, his resume is rather skimpy.

This.

Originally Posted by illinisc

I think at this point any assistant that Groce chooses will have a significant amount of risk attached to him.

Why do you say that? There is a good chance that Groce will be able to hire someone that (a) is a proven commodity as a recruiter and coach; and (b) either knows Groce directly or is well known in Groce's circle. If we are to believe Klee, there is a better pool of interested candidates now than when Chew was hired.

Originally Posted by illinisc

I personally think Deon's a long shot but I hope he's given the same kind of consideration that any other potential candidate would receive.

He has probably already received more consideration than any other candidate with his background would receive were they not an Illinois alumnus.

[pizzaman]

Originally Posted by combes

I am not against hiring Deon, though. But Groce might think there is someone out there who is a better fit. And, then again, maybe Deon is that fit.

Groce thought Chew was a good fit, he probably was, just not at Illinois.

I'm all for having an alum on the staff and Deon is much better than just a guy who played here. He's got a Chicago background, he played professionally, he has coaching experience and (from what we know) he's of high ethical character.

How much better could anyone be?

[Botb9]

I think we may attach too much importance to the assistant coaches. Not all of these guys will likely stick around throughout Groce's tenure (and if they do, it's likely a bad sign). The importance is really for the near future, and assuring that we'll be able to get enough good recruits to keep up in the B1G.

[ctblaisdell83]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

This.

Why do you say that? There is a good chance that Groce will be able to hire someone that (a) is a proven commodity as a recruiter and coach; and (b) either knows Groce directly or is well known in Groce's circle. If we are to believe Klee, there is a better pool of interested candidates now than when Chew was hired.

If we hire Deon it will likely be because after weighing all pros & cons for the candidates, Deon is a great fit for the program. Since Groce is going to be deliberate and given the Klee input on how perhaps a better slate of candidates is in play this time around, I expect whoever gets this will be a strong candidate across a number of criteria and will be able to help now, and in the future, and present acceptable risk to the program.

When I've hired among a strong group of candidates, it presents a nice problem of selecting from several with great skills, who are cultural fits, and serve short-term and long-term needs.

I think Groce is a good manager and will make a great choice. If it's Deon, respected alum...well, that would be a nice outcome

[BigHitter1]

If Klee is correct and there is a stronger field this time around, wouldn't that make Deon's chances worse than before

[IlliniPunk]

If Johnny Dawkins can hire Mark Madsen, who has no experience, as an Assistant then Groce can do the same with Deon. I know the right "fit" is important for him but once in a while you should make some sort of hire that will light up the Illini fan base.

[NJJ87]

Originally Posted by IlliniPunk

If Johnny Dawkins can hire Mark Madsen, who has no experience, as an Assistant then Groce can do the same with Deon. I know the right "fit" is important for him but once in a while you should make some sort of hire that will light up the Illini fan base.

Johnny Dawkins took over a successful Stanford program (they went 28-8 with a Sweet16 appearance the year before he took over) and has gone 75-59, 30-42 in conference during a period when the PAC-10 is at its least competitive state in as long as I can remember. In 4 seasons they have yet to appear in the NCAA tournament under Dawkins (they had been to the tournament 13 times in the previous 14 seasons).

Are we really using Johnny Dawkins as a benchmark of how to run a program? :rolleyes:

[hermie1985]

The question is does Deon have the knowledge and ability to relate to big men in a way JG can utilize. The rest of this stuff about HC record and alumnus is fluff.

[illinisc]

Originally Posted by BigHitter1

If Klee is correct and there is a stronger field this time around, wouldn't that make Deon's chances worse than before

Did Klee really say there was a stronger field of candidates? I think he just said there were some new names being considered.

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Originally Posted by IlliniPunk

If Johnny Dawkins can hire Mark Madsen, who has no experience, as an Assistant then Groce can do the same with Deon. I know the right "fit" is important for him but once in a while you should make some sort of hire that will light up the Illini fan base.

I've used this example before, but FIU hired Isiah Freakin' Thomas to run their hoops program. Pointing out that someone else did something doesn't mean it is automatically a good decision and should be copied.

[IlliniPunk]

Originally Posted by NJJ87

Johnny Dawkins took over a successful Stanford program (they went 28-8 with a Sweet16 appearance the year before he took over) and has gone 75-59, 30-42 in conference during a period when the PAC-10 is at its least competitive state in as long as I can remember. In 4 seasons they have yet to appear in the NCAA tournament under Dawkins (they had been to the tournament 13 times in the previous 14 seasons).

Are we really using Johnny Dawkins as a benchmark of how to run a program? :rolleyes:

Um, Im trying to talk about the hiring of an assistant since Mark Madsen, who has no coaching experience, can get hired then why not Deon, who at least has some coaching experience.

I'll try to go slower next time. :rolleyes:

[NJJ87]

Originally Posted by IlliniPunk

Um, Im trying to talk about the hiring of an assistant since Mark Madsen, who has no coaching experience, can get hired then why not Deon, who at least has some coaching experience.

I'll try to go slower next time. :rolleyes:

I read your opinion the first time, but the fact remains that you are holding up as an example a hiring decision by someone who has shown no evidence that he knows what he is doing. You mentioned that hiring Deon would energize the Illini fan base. Do you have any other reasons why would you want Groce to emulate how Johnny Dawkins makes his hiring decisions?

The Isaiah Thomas reference above is an excellent example as well. No college experience, but he's "Zeke", right? An all-time great, great name recognition, he'll get everyone at FIU fired up and be a huge success, right? The guy is a clown. I'd love for Deon to be hired, but only if Groce determines that he has a skill set package needed to excel as a high-major assistant that is superior to the other candidates Groce will consider.

BTW, when others don't agree with you, it doesn't mean that you're too clever for them and that you need to "go slower". You expressed an opinion as I did.

[Dan]

Officially official, Lon Record named Strength & Conditioning Coach.

Lon Record Hired as Strength & Conditioning Coach



"The areas of strength and conditioning are a top priority for our program, so it was important to go out and get one of the best in the profession to work with our athletes," head coach John Groce said. "We have found that individual in Lon Record. He has a proven track record of developing athletes at the highest level through his innovative training regimen. Coach Bollant and I are excited to have Coach Record working with our players on a daily basis to help them reach their full athletic potential."

http://www.fightingillini.com/sports...061212aab.html

[JJB]

Originally Posted by IlliniPunk

Um, Im trying to talk about the hiring of an assistant since Mark Madsen, who has no coaching experience, can get hired then why not Deon, who at least has some coaching experience.

I'll try to go slower next time. :rolleyes:

Dawkins is going into his fifth season at Stanford and Madsen has been on campus for his MBA the last 2 years. So, Dawkins is established at Stanford and has had 2 years to get to know and feel comfortable with Madsen. Madsen had attended numerous practices and even went to Spain with the team on their trip. Stanford had a glaring need for a big man coach when their former big man coach retired.

Does any of that sound like the situation we find ourselves in at Illinois? We have a first year coach trying to establish his ways, no previous relationship between Groce and Thomas, and we already have a big man coach in Ford.

[Monte Carlo]

Originally Posted by JJB

Dawkins is going into his fifth season at Stanford and Madsen has been on campus for his MBA the last 2 years. So, Dawkins is established at Stanford and has had 2 years to get to know and feel comfortable with Madsen. Madsen had attended numerous practices and even went to Spain with the team on their trip. Stanford had a glaring need for a big man coach when their former big man coach retired.

Does any of that sound like the situation we find ourselves in at Illinois? We have a first year coach trying to establish his ways, no previous relationship between Groce and Thomas, and we already have a big man coach in Ford.

The one thing I would disagree with is not needing a big man coach. Not saying Ford isn't a good coach and doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to coaching big men. But doesn't anyone else find it a bit odd that our big man "expert" is was a college guard who shot threes and didn't rebound much? Just strikes me as a bit odd. I do like the fact that Deon was a big man, an accomplished big man, and I do think there is no replacement for the actual doing. Ford wasn't and can never be a big man, but Deon is and was so therefore may be able to shed more light on the situation that Ford can - a win-win for all.

[jhayton]

Originally Posted by Monte Carlo

The one thing I would disagree with is not needing a big man coach. Not saying Ford isn't a good coach and doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to coaching big men. But doesn't anyone else find it a bit odd that our big man "expert" is was a college guard who shot threes and didn't rebound much? Just strikes me as a bit odd. I do like the fact that Deon was a big man, an accomplished big man, and I do think there is no replacement for the actual doing. Ford wasn't and can never be a big man, but Deon is and was so therefore may be able to shed more light on the situation that Ford can - a win-win for all.

JG hired Ford as his bigs coach. That right there tells me that he has what JG was looking for. Your argument for Ford not being able to coach bigs makes about as much sense as someone saying that a history teacher can't teach history because he/she didn't live through the Civil War.

I want/wanted Deon involved with our program, but if Groce feels he needs someone else then I am ok with his decision.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by Monte Carlo

The one thing I would disagree with is not needing a big man coach. Not saying Ford isn't a good coach and doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to coaching big men. But doesn't anyone else find it a bit odd that our big man "expert" is was a college guard who shot threes and didn't rebound much? Just strikes me as a bit odd.

This isn't the least bit odd. I bet the majority of big man coaches did not play inside in college.

Originally Posted by jhayton

Your argument for Ford not being able to coach bigs makes about as much sense as someone saying that a history teacher can't teach history because he/she didn't live through the Civil War.

:laugh:

[IlliniPunk]

Originally Posted by NJJ87

I read your opinion the first time, but the fact remains that you are holding up as an example a hiring decision by someone who has shown no evidence that he knows what he is doing. You mentioned that hiring Deon would energize the Illini fan base. Do you have any other reasons why would you want Groce to emulate how Johnny Dawkins makes his hiring decisions?

The Isaiah Thomas reference above is an excellent example as well. No college experience, but he's "Zeke", right? An all-time great, great name recognition, he'll get everyone at FIU fired up and be a huge success, right? The guy is a clown. I'd love for Deon to be hired, but only if Groce determines that he has a skill set package needed to excel as a high-major assistant that is superior to the other candidates Groce will consider.

BTW, when others don't agree with you, it doesn't mean that you're too clever for them and that you need to "go slower". You expressed an opinion as I did.

I know about the Isiah Thomas experiments. They were failures. It's a bit different when you are "captain of the ship" as Isiah was. An Assistant is a bit different when he's is one of 3 others on the staff. Now I wouldn't say that Dawkins doesnt know what he's doing. They should be in the Top half of the Pac 10 next year. The Pac 10 should be improved but of course not in the league that the Big Ten is. They could be a bubble team next season. I think Dawkins is a decent coach who may have some restrictions with allowing players in his program due to the strict academics that they have.

All I'm saying is that Groce should look to those candidates that will make a bigger commitment with us than Chew did. I think Deon could do that. Groce was once hired from a smaller school (in his mid 20's) and given the opportunity to join a coaching staff kind of like what Deon desires except that Deon played overseas for so many years and is much older (40-41).

I thought I was specific the first time since I didn't agree with you on your first comments. But I do realize now that I had to expand on it.

[IlliniPunk]

Originally Posted by JJB

Dawkins is going into his fifth season at Stanford and Madsen has been on campus for his MBA the last 2 years. So, Dawkins is established at Stanford and has had 2 years to get to know and feel comfortable with Madsen. Madsen had attended numerous practices and even went to Spain with the team on their trip. Stanford had a glaring need for a big man coach when their former big man coach retired.

Does any of that sound like the situation we find ourselves in at Illinois? We have a first year coach trying to establish his ways, no previous relationship between Groce and Thomas, and we already have a big man coach in Ford.

I guess that is definitely plausible as their other asst. coach retired and managed their big men but who says that we can't have 2 big men coaches. Other schools have 2 big men/wings coaches and 1 guard coach. And vice versa. Deon has said that he coaches his current players to develop skills whether they're bigs or smalls. So saying that Deon is a Bigs coach is not exactly all that true.

[Monte Carlo]

Originally Posted by jhayton

JG hired Ford as his bigs coach. That right there tells me that he has what JG was looking for. Your argument for Ford not being able to coach bigs makes about as much sense as someone saying that a history teacher can't teach history because he/she didn't live through the Civil War.

I want/wanted Deon involved with our program, but if Groce feels he needs someone else then I am ok with his decision.

I think you might want to reread my post. Nowhere did it say that Ford couldn't coach big men. What is said was maybe Deon has something to offer that Ford doesn't since Deon played the post and Ford did not. That's why I called it a potential win-win situation. How many MLB hitting coaches were pitchers? I am betting you would be hard pressed to find one and there is a reason for that. I still think there is no replacement for the actual doing of things. Now, I will grant you that if Deon is not a good teacher/communicator, then all his knowledge and how-to that he learned while playing the post won't help, but if he can, it can only be a plus.

[TCTORNADO]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

This isn't the least bit odd. I bet the majority of big man coaches did not play inside in college.

:laugh:

And some of them were catchers in college.

[ctblaisdell83]

I think I missed one of the Asst Coach candidate names from the latest Klee chat (Jun 6) - Derek Thomas of UDM.

U Detroit Asst Coach and Recruiting Coord since 2008. After 2010 season was named Mid-Major Asst Coach of the Year. Has worked with guards / perimeter players thru his career

Prior to Detroit, the head coach at Western Ill (5 yrs with not-so-great records, albeit improved year on year).

Also Asst coach & Recruiting Coord at UNLV (under Spoonhour), and before that asst in the B1G, including Illinois (in 2000 season?...under Self?).

Family man and son of an NFL coach (KC's Emmitt Thomas, who also played in the NFL).

http://www.detroittitans.com/coaches...80&path=mbball

[JJB]

Originally Posted by IlliniPunk

I guess that is definitely plausible as their other asst. coach retired and managed their big men but who says that we can't have 2 big men coaches. Other schools have 2 big men/wings coaches and 1 guard coach. And vice versa. Deon has said that he coaches his current players to develop skills whether they're bigs or smalls. So saying that Deon is a Bigs coach is not exactly all that true.

We don't need 2 coaches whose specialty is big men in an offense that focuses on guard play.

As much as I like Deon and the idea of him being involved, wouldn't we be making far too many compromises in this situation just to get him on board. That's not in line with the ethos of "fit" that Groce has been pushing in the media.

If you are a current powerhouse like UNC, you can take a flier on an alum with no coaching track record like Hubert Davis (who just also happened to be all over ESPN for a few years).

If you believe you a program on the rise coming after a NIT championship and have established your own core group of players, you can take a flier on an alum with no coaching track record like Mark Madsen.

If your program is in a 2-3 year rebuilding project (Klee's words, not mine) and your coach hasn't recruited a single 4 year player yet, then you probably don't go out on that limb unless you do not have any better alternatives. In 2 years, that possibility opens up. Just too much on the line in Groce's career right now to take that leap of faith.

[JSpence]

Originally Posted by JJB

We don't need 2 coaches whose specialty is big men in an offense that focuses on guard play.

As much as I like Deon and the idea of him being involved, wouldn't we be making far too many compromises in this situation just to get him on board. That's not in line with the ethos of "fit" that Groce has been pushing in the media.

If you are a current powerhouse like UNC, you can take a flier on an alum with no coaching track record like Hubert Davis (who just also happened to be all over ESPN for a few years).

If you believe you a program on the rise coming after a NIT championship and have established your own core group of players, you can take a flier on an alum with no coaching track record like Mark Madsen.

If your program is in a 2-3 year rebuilding project (Klee's words, not mine) and your coach hasn't recruited a single 4 year player yet, then you probably don't go out on that limb unless you do not have any better alternatives. In 2 years, that possibility opens up. Just too much on the line in Groce's career right now to take that leap of faith.

Agreed. There might be an opening in a couple of years, and one might expect an opening within 5 for a successful program and Dustin Ford on board.

Maybe we could hire Deon then. If Groce hires him right now... when or how do we get rid of him if he doesn't fit? The guys wants to coach - his career would die before it started if he was the first coach to be let go by this new administration.

Any media focus should stay on GROCE (who is basically our lead recruiter) and not be divided among too many faces of the program.