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Old Jun 2, 2012, 11:54 PM   #1
DaytonIllini
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Another deadly taste of ObamaCare
Imagine having a screening test denied to you and dying of prostate cancer because we elected the wrong jack-ass. Your president feels you should just die and save the world some money if you get prostate cancer. He would deny you your shot at survival by talking down the PSA screening test that saves lives.

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In fact, death rates from prostate cancer have dropped 57 percent among men ages 49 to 64 and 80 percent among adult men over 75. National Cancer Institute data show that prostate cancers are being detected and treated earlier and that life expectancy is rising as a result.

The task force claims there is no evidence that screening directly reduces prostate cancer. But how, then, did death rates decline, if screening doesn’t work?

It does of course.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...#ixzz1whshCbhq
The panel recommending against PSA's had no oncologists, no urologists. It was made up of pediatricians, psychiastrists and family doctors. People that don't treat this disease. People appointed for political reasons. People destined to turn back the clock on the cures we have worked so hard to achieve.

Don't let him kill your dad. Vote to repeal ObamaCare.

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 04:42 AM   #2
IntenselyOrange
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Strong post. This makes no sense to me. Given the outcomes of the screening, it is exactly the type of medicine we should be promoting in this country.

I don't understand how these people can preach prevention and then argue against screening. I think we're seeing similar idiotic decisions regarding vaccinations.

Honest question now. Do you think he realizes that all doctors are not the same? He probably figures that in a pinch a pediatrician could do brain surgery.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 07:03 AM   #3
bdutts
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Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
Strong post. This makes no sense to me. Given the outcomes of the screening, it is exactly the type of medicine we should be promoting in this country.

I don't understand how these people can preach prevention and then argue against screening. I think we're seeing similar idiotic decisions regarding vaccinations.

Honest question now. Do you think he realizes that all doctors are not the same? He probably figures that in a pinch a pediatrician could do brain surgery.
I'll be seeing my urologist on Wednesday (I have BHP and prostate cancer runs in my family). I'll ask him about that recommendation.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 08:03 AM   #4
DaytonIllini
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Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
Strong post. This makes no sense to me. Given the outcomes of the screening, it is exactly the type of medicine we should be promoting in this country.

I don't understand how these people can preach prevention and then argue against screening. I think we're seeing similar idiotic decisions regarding vaccinations.

Honest question now. Do you think he realizes that all doctors are not the same? He probably figures that in a pinch a pediatrician could do brain surgery.
Well in fairness I doubt Obama knows what a prostate is or whether he even has one. A crisp C-Note says he spells it "prostrate". So I am not saying he personally is trying to kill you. For now, he seems to be confining that to drones.

But the controversy around prostate screening has to do with $$. We know that it saves lives but a couple studies were designed to show that it doesn't because old men are the people saved and they have almost no economic value. It's figured that they are going to die of something soon anyway. Also in fairness I do not recommend prostate screening for men that have a life expectancy of less than 5 yrs as it is highly unlikely that they will benefit.

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 08:21 AM   #5
DanvIllini
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Well in fairness I doubt Obama knows what a prostate is or whether he even has one. A crisp C-Note says he spells it "prostrate".
We get it. You don't like him.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 08:32 AM   #6
DaytonIllini
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We get it. You don't like him.
Obviously you don't get it.

It's okay. You probably don't know what it is either. Most people don't and the vast majority spell it "prostrate" (and pronounce it that way). That includes nurses, lawyers and a lot of doctors. It wasn't meant as an insult and if you "got it" you'd have realized that.

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 09:02 AM   #7
DanvIllini
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It was hilarious.... bazinga.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 09:21 AM   #8
illinirazorback
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It was hilarious.... bazinga.
Serious question: Are you trying to be funny? Because if so you need to try harder.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 09:50 AM   #9
Lab Rat
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I have worked in Health Care for 30 plus years, mostly in hospitals, and I can find no one even the most ardant supports of Obama that thinks Obama-Care the "fix" for the Health Care system. If anyone thinks Government is good at managing healthcare or anything, then look at our VA Hospitals, what a mess!! Get rid of Obama-Care now!!!!
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 10:04 AM   #10
Lab Rat
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Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
Imagine having a screening test denied to you and dying of prostate cancer because we elected the wrong jack-ass. Your president feels you should just die and save the world some money if you get prostate cancer. He would deny you your shot at survival by talking down the PSA screening test that saves lives.



The panel recommending against PSA's had no oncologists, no urologists. It was made up of pediatricians, psychiastrists and family doctors. People that don't treat this disease. People appointed for political reasons. People destined to turn back the clock on the cures we have worked so hard to achieve.

Don't let him kill your dad. Vote to repeal ObamaCare.
You have to remember, what this "panel" decides doesn't apply to them. Their health care plan is paid in full by the taxpayers.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 10:12 AM   #11
DanvIllini
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No I am not trying to be funny. Just watched all four seasons of big bang theory and it popped out.

Was there a hidden meaning in Dayton's original post? I'd read it literally and thought it was meant to be funny. Is there something more that I missed? Explain to me where I am misunderstanding, because you really have me wondering if there is some hidden joke or meaning that I missed. I hate to be "left" out.

Heres what I got from the post:

Obama can't spell prostate, which would be common according to Dayton's second post where he pointed out a majority could not spell it (Have people seriously researched this or is this a personal observation?). Just thought it was an odd attempt to belittle BHO.

Dayton also said that Obama does not know what a prostate is, which is highly unlikely for a 50 yr old male. I was merely pointing out that Dayton's post was reiterating that he does not like Obama, which most people who check the site would know, so why bother?

This policy is ridiculous. Obama deserves the ridicule on this policy but the relentless "castigating" is a bit redundant.

Razorback: Are you trying to be Dayton's sidekick on every Anti-Obama thread? Because if you are, you are doing wonderfully. I'll let you be the guy who chuckles behind the cool kid on the playground.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 10:16 AM   #12
DanvIllini
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Razor: found your new avatar.

Picture Cred

Last edited by DanvIllini; Jun 3, 2012 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Link
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 10:16 AM   #13
Lab Rat
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Obama-Care should have never been, it was conceived in secret by Constitution skirting politicians, rammed down our throats in order to widen the grip and control a few in the Government have over their servants! Oh, and the rest of the bunch in the House and Senate, shame on them for not mounting a better offensive against it in order to protect their precious job. Get rid of the whole mess the legislation and supporters.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 10:20 AM   #14
DanvIllini
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Originally Posted by Lab Rat View Post
Obama-Care should have never been, it was conceived in secret by Constitution skirting politicians, rammed down our throats in order to widen the grip and control a few in the Government have over their servants! Oh, and the rest of the bunch in the House and Senate, shame on them for not mounting a better offensive against it in order to protect their precious job. Get rid of the whole mess the legislation and supporters.
Agreed.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 10:23 AM   #15
illinirazorback
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Originally Posted by DanvIllini View Post
No I am not trying to be funny. Just watched all four seasons of big bang theory and it popped out.

Was there a hidden meaning in Dayton's original post? I'd read it literally and thought it was meant to be funny. Is there something more that I missed? Explain to me where I am misunderstanding, because you really have me wondering if there is some hidden joke or meaning that I missed. I hate to be "left" out.

Heres what I got from the post:

Obama can't spell prostate, which would be common according to Dayton's second post where he pointed out a majority could not spell it (Have people seriously researched this or is this a personal observation?). Just thought it was an odd attempt to belittle BHO.

Dayton also said that Obama does not know what a prostate is, which is highly unlikely for a 50 yr old male. I was merely pointing out that Dayton's post was reiterating that he does not like Obama, which most people who check the site would know, so why bother?

This policy is ridiculous. Obama deserves the ridicule on this policy but the relentless "castigating" is a bit redundant.

Razorback: Are you trying to be Dayton's sidekick on every Anti-Obama thread? Because if you are, you are doing wonderfully. I'll let you be the guy who chuckles behind the cool kid on the playground.
If that's what you got from it, then apparently you can't read, either.

Sure, I'd be happy to be Dayton's sidekick. But I suppose that makes you the deaf, blind kid in the corner mumbling incoherently.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 11:52 AM   #16
Clemens
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Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
Imagine having a screening test denied to you and dying of prostate cancer because we elected the wrong jack-ass. Your president feels you should just die and save the world some money if you get prostate cancer. He would deny you your shot at survival by talking down the PSA screening test that saves lives.



The panel recommending against PSA's had no oncologists, no urologists. It was made up of pediatricians, psychiastrists and family doctors. People that don't treat this disease. People appointed for political reasons. People destined to turn back the clock on the cures we have worked so hard to achieve.

Don't let him kill your dad. Vote to repeal ObamaCare.
um you do realize the law that authorized this task force was signed by Reagan in 1984?
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 12:38 PM   #17
DaytonIllini
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Originally Posted by DanvIllini View Post
No I am not trying to be funny. Just watched all four seasons of big bang theory and it popped out.

Was there a hidden meaning in Dayton's original post? I'd read it literally and thought it was meant to be funny. Is there something more that I missed? Explain to me where I am misunderstanding, because you really have me wondering if there is some hidden joke or meaning that I missed. I hate to be "left" out.

Heres what I got from the post:

Obama can't spell prostate, which would be common according to Dayton's second post where he pointed out a majority could not spell it (Have people seriously researched this or is this a personal observation?). Just thought it was an odd attempt to belittle BHO.

Dayton also said that Obama does not know what a prostate is, which is highly unlikely for a 50 yr old male. I was merely pointing out that Dayton's post was reiterating that he does not like Obama, which most people who check the site would know, so why bother?

This policy is ridiculous. Obama deserves the ridicule on this policy but the relentless "castigating" is a bit redundant.

Razorback: Are you trying to be Dayton's sidekick on every Anti-Obama thread? Because if you are, you are doing wonderfully. I'll let you be the guy who chuckles behind the cool kid on the playground.
See you did misunderstand. I was clarifying that it wasn't Obama making this decision. It was an offshoot of ObamaCare.

I seriously doubt that he does know where or what a prostate does. I have treated around 3000+ men with prostate cancer and I cannot think of 4 that knew precisely what it was, where it was or what it did.

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 12:39 PM   #18
DaytonIllini
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um you do realize the law that authorized this task force was signed by Reagan in 1984?
And you realize that the law that gives it force was passed by Obama?

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 01:41 PM   #19
Clemens
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And you realize that the law that gives it force was passed by Obama?
how?
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 02:15 PM   #20
DanvIllini
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Originally Posted by DaytonIllini View Post
See you did misunderstand. I was clarifying that it wasn't Obama making this decision. It was an offshoot of ObamaCare.

I seriously doubt that he does know where or what a prostate does. I have treated around 3000+ men with prostate cancer and I cannot think of 4 that knew precisely what it was, where it was or what it did.
Thank you. As to the second tidbit... what it does is foreign to me but nothing a simple google search in 20 years can't fix.
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Old Jun 3, 2012, 02:53 PM   #21
DaytonIllini
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Thank you. As to the second tidbit... what it does is foreign to me but nothing a simple google search in 20 years can't fix.
Yep, but presumably you're a reasonably intelligent guy and you don't know. That is the point I am making. I seriously doubt Obama does either. Not because he's stupid but because it isn't directly on his plate.

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 02:55 PM   #22
DaytonIllini
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Originally Posted by Clemens View Post
how?
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Under ObamaCare, a single committee—the United States Preventative Services Task Force—is empowered to evaluate preventive health services and decide which will be covered by health-insurance plans.

The task force already rates services with letter grades of "A" through "D" (or "I," if it has "insufficient evidence" to make a rating). But under ObamaCare, services rated "A" or "B"—such as colon cancer screening for adults aged 50-75—must be covered by health plans in full, without any co-pays. Many services that get "Cs" and "Ds"—such as screening for ovarian or testicular cancer—could get nixed from coverage entirely.

That's because mandating coverage for all the "A" and "B" services will be very costly. In 2000, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the marginal cost of similar state insurance mandates was 5%-10% of total claims. Other estimates put the cost of mandates as high as 20% of premiums.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...656734864.html

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 11:03 PM   #23
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There is always going to be some give and take when it comes to policy/healthcare reform. I'm not saying I agree with every single detail of Obamacare, cause i do not. Any reform that is put forth will have shortcomings and there will always be people crying foul about something. Show me another proposal and I guarantee you there will be groups that will be shafted by some aspect of it. I do applaud you for having certain facts and sources to back your statement. Too many times people speak/post about politics and simply have nothing but bias to back up their claims.

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Old Jun 3, 2012, 11:05 PM   #24
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Sorry, should have quoted Dayton on that post.

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Old Jun 4, 2012, 06:08 AM   #25
DaytonIllini
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There is always going to be some give and take when it comes to policy/healthcare reform. I'm not saying I agree with every single detail of Obamacare, cause i do not. Any reform that is put forth will have shortcomings and there will always be people crying foul about something. Show me another proposal and I guarantee you there will be groups that will be shafted by some aspect of it. I do applaud you for having certain facts and sources to back your statement. Too many times people speak/post about politics and simply have nothing but bias to back up their claims.
I'd argue that the current system works best when it comes to advances in most areas of medicine. After all, the US ranks first in the world by most of these measures. If you are diagnosed with breast or prostate cancer in the US, you are much more likely to survive 5 years (in some diseases 20-30% more likely) than if you are diagnosed with the same disease in Canada or Europe. And while lead-time bias accounts for some of this, it doesn't account for the majority of the difference.

But we allow ourselves to be hoodwinked into thinking there is some grave flaw in our current system. There is not. Sure we have more pre-term child birth than they do in Scandinavia but if you give birth at 30 weeks there is no country in the world where your child has a better chance of surviving to adulthood. That is a SOCIAL problem, not a HEALTHCARE problem. And it is exactly the people that have so utterly failed to deal with social problems who are now claiming that they will solve our healthcare "problem". It is an absurd situation. It is a bit akin to delegating tasks to your worst worker. A worker with a history of failure in almost every task he is assigned.

Sure we have huge cost problems but that is a function of improper incentives and simply too much money paid per unit of healthcare. Can we get more for less? Of course. Does a nurse really need to make 68K? No. Does a doctor need to make $200K-2.5M? No. But reordering our healthcare program into some government dictated system won't work.

Europe is mostly socialized but almost no innovation comes from them. Almost all the innovation they have is made to take advantage of our markets or are really our companies that they have bought (see Roche purchase of Genentech).

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