2012 Illini Hoops Summer Workouts

[othawhitemeat]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

It isn't impossible for JB to learn how to shoot, but he will be a redshirt junior this fall so it is getting late in his career to make a dramatic improvement. He has had three years of college coaching/practice and played 20 min/game last year. Most good college guards learn how to shoot in high school and merely improve their release and consistency in college. We will see...

His shot might not improve dramatically but some of the rest of his game might in my opinion. I never thought he was really utilized right. Last year was his first real year of playing time even though he has shown flashes here and there. Plus, he really only started playing seriously for the 2nd half of the season.

I think by time, he is a senior, he will be pretty dangerous as he is just now learning to see what his game is at the college level - that he can't just blow by people all the time in practice. Maybe this will improve his shot - it does not have to be at the 3 point range necessarily - it could just be having a deadly long 2 this year and 3 point shot next year.

[krushdad]

JB's shot is typical of someone who was taught to keep the ball high and above their head, before they release the shot. It is not your typical, John Wooden, lift and thrust. It works well when your closer to the hoop. It does not translate well beyond the 3 pr. arc.

That shot requires, ball in shot pocket, knees flexed and a lifting and extension of arms at the same time. Otherwise your shot is mostly arms and becomes somewhat of a throw, rather than a shot. It will tend to be flat beyond 15 ft.

That can be fixed and has been at the HS level....not so much in college however.

[Holdemall]

Originally Posted by Foo G

DJ is one dimensional on offense. He can't dribble, is a poor passer, hasn't shown the ability to move without the ball or come off of screens effectively, doesn't rebound, doesn't get to the free throw line, and struggles too much with confidence to be consistent. I'd much rather see an attacking lineup that can get to the rim to start the game with DJ being the energy/defensive catalyst brought off the bench when we need to stretch the defense after they start to collapse on driving lanes. I understand that having shooters is critical to this offense, but we've seen how it can hurt when those early shots aren't falling and we end up in a hole right off the bat. Playing inside-out, getting to the rim, and drawing fouls puts a lot of pressure on the opposing team and is more reliable from week to week than outside shooting.

All right, DJ is a limited player, but some of these criticisms seem a little heavy. He's not altogether comfortable dribbling, but can do it. He can get to the rack occasionally, plays pretty good d, and is a good shooter.

[Foo G]

Originally Posted by chief9

Dell Curry and Sam Perkins say hello....

this might be one of the stupidest things I've heard someone complain about.

Does this mean that practicing free throws hurts your ability to shoot a jump shot since you aren't getting any elevation?

I asked a family member about this after you posted to make sure I wasn't wrong. By the way, he's in the Illinois State Basketball Hall of Fame as a coach. He said that if you are shooting that many jumpers, elevation shouldn't mean a thing, it's all about form and muscle memory. It's not different than practicing hundreds of free throws, which he said he used to do with his teams during practice.

So it's not important to practice the way you play in a game?
I'm not saying that a shooter can't be successful without elevation.
My point was that if these guys are playing in a competitive situation, they are going to be releasing their shots at their apex.
Practice does not make perfect.
Perfect practice makes perfect.

In the video, Langford looked like a guy that was just going through the motions.
I realize that it was a small sample and may not be entirely indicative of his workouts.

[Foo G]

Originally Posted by Holdemall

All right, DJ is a limited player, but some of these criticisms seem a little heavy. He's not altogether comfortable dribbling, but can do it. He can get to the rack occasionally, plays pretty good d, and is a good shooter.

To me, he falls in the category of a specialist, excelling under specific circumstances.
Because he's not as versatile, you can increase his percentage of success and capitalize on it more by bringing him off the bench during favorable situations.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by Foo G

To me, he falls in the category of a specialist, excelling under specific circumstances.
Because he's not as versatile, you can increase his percentage of success and capitalize on it more by bringing him off the bench during favorable situations.

DJ is a good shooter when healthy. If you notice, when he had his leg injuries, he didn't get his normal elevation in his shot and struggled from behind the three line. Last season, we desperately needed outside shooter's and he often took too many shots out of need instead of good lucks. I think DJ will play his game and look much more comfortable under Groce this season. Give the kid some confidence and he'll shoot you out of the gym.

[Foo G]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

Give the kid some confidence and he'll shoot you out of the gym.

Confidence will come quicker when he's put into the right situation where he has a good chance to succeed.

[MadtownIllin]

The other factor that surely had to affect DJ's shooting woes was the amount of time that he was in the game (I think this may have affected BP as well). I can't tell you how many games I watched amazed at how little rest he received. You can't expect players to have much left for long 3's when they have spent the whole game chasing the other team's guards around picks without a break. Really hoping to see a change along those lines this year.

[Foo G]

I think it really affected his defense, too.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by Foo G

Confidence will come quicker when he's put into the right situation where he has a good chance to succeed.

True....but I don't think that not starting him does that. DJ has a boat load of experience as a starting guard in the B1G. I think he tended to get wore down towards the end of games because Weber played him too many minutes. Keep DJ fresh and he'll shoot much better.

[Foo G]

He was also an animal and a real difference maker coming off the bench (hand injury) against Nebraska at home. He's savvy enough that I think it benefits him to step back and look at the game from a different vantage point and see what he can do and take advantage of to have success.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by Foo G

He was also an animal and a real difference maker coming off the bench (hand injury) against Nebraska at home. He's savvy enough that I think it benefits him to step back and look at the game from a different vantage point and see what he can do and take advantage of to have success.

It's not a mental or maturity thing with DJ. Weber put him on the best player defensively, played him too many minutes, and then expected him to be our only outside threat. We are both saying the same thing, but it has more to do with not playing him so many minutes vs. whether or not he starts a game. DJ doesn't make stupid fouls or get into foul trouble like ML and JR did, which is why they did better coming off the bench.

[Foo G]

I guess I just like the idea of the energy he would provide off the bench.

[BrooksTaylorFan]

Originally Posted by Foo G

I guess I just like the idea of the energy he would provide off the bench.

True, but we need shooters to spread out the opposing team's defense. The only other outside shooter we have is Latulip and who knows if he will contribute anything this season. I love having guys like Bertrand and Henry off the bench.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

DJ is a good shooter when healthy. If you notice, when he had his leg injuries, he didn't get his normal elevation in his shot and struggled from behind the three line. Last season, we desperately needed outside shooter's and he often took too many shots out of need instead of good lucks. I think DJ will play his game and look much more comfortable under Groce this season. Give the kid some confidence and he'll shoot you out of the gym.

The JB vs. DJ argument is moot. We have only 4 legitimate guards on the roster (TA, BP, JB and DJ) to cover three positions, with some spot help from Henry who is a 3/4 combo. All four of those guards are going to play a lot of minutes (+/- 30 min/game).

Here are the perimeter lineup combinations we are going to see most of the time:
TA, DJ, BP
TA, BP, JB
TA, DJ, JB
BP, DJ, JB

The bottom line is that TA, BP and JB all need to improve their outside shooting dramatically, BP needs to become a reliable backup PG, and TA needs to become a starting quality PG. Since DJ is pretty limited, I'd like to see him become really good at the one thing he can do offensively and hit 45% from the arc.

[ctblaisdell83]

Originally Posted by Foo G

I think it really affected his defense, too.

I got the impression that a season of very high minutes combined with guarding opponent's best guard/wing wore DJ down to where he first lost his shot, then couldn't keep up on defense

Injuries didn't help, but I think fatigue was a bigger factor

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

DJ has a boat load of experience as a starting guard in the B1G. I think he tended to get wore down towards the end of games because Weber played him too many minutes. Keep DJ fresh and he'll shoot much better.

Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan

It's not a mental or maturity thing with DJ. Weber put him on the best player defensively, played him too many minutes, and then expected him to be our only outside threat.

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

Since DJ is pretty limited, I'd like to see him become really good at the one thing he can do offensively and hit 45% from the arc.

Originally Posted by ctblaisdell83

I got the impression that a season of very high minutes combined with guarding opponent's best guard/wing wore DJ down to where he first lost his shot, then couldn't keep up on defense

Injuries didn't help, but I think fatigue was a bigger factor

+1 to all. DJ playing 30 mpg vs. 36-40 mpg in B1G and bigger non-league games next season should keep his legs fresher and his outside jumper more consistent. DJ was exhausted carrying such a heavy load the last 2 years. Our depth wasn't great, but BW played him too many mins to be effective in B1G play as a defensive stopper who also was expected to run baseline to baseline off screens. Getting a 4-6 minute rest each half should do wonders for him. I wouldn't be surprised to see JG use a zone D occasionally, too, which will preserve legs as well.

[illinisc]

I don't think fatigue or injuries plays a role into DJ's shooting. He plays a lot of minutes but so did a lot of other players in the Big Ten. I don't know if he's even in the top 5 of minutes played during conference. Also, he played around 30 minutes per game the year before and he still struggled with his shooting during conference play. I think it has more to do with him being one dimensional and the step up in competition during conference games. As a defender, you know he's not a good ballhandler or passer, so all you have to do is defend the 3 point line.

[combes]

Originally Posted by illinisc

I don't think fatigue or injuries plays a role into DJ's shooting. He plays a lot of minutes but so did a lot of other players in the Big Ten. I don't know if he's even in the top 5 of minutes played during conference. Also, he played around 30 minutes per game the year before and he still struggled with his shooting during conference play. I think it has more to do with him being one dimensional and the step up in competition during conference games. As a defender, you know he's not a good ballhandler or passer, so all you have to do is defend the 3 point line.

Last year, the poor shooting in conference play began when he sprained his shooting wrist. It took awhile to get healthy and he lost his confidence. The year before, he also had an injury that affected him early in the conference season. Hopefully, he can stay healthy this year.

[illinisc]

Originally Posted by combes

Last year, the poor shooting in conference play began when he sprained his shooting wrist. It took awhile to get healthy and he lost his confidence. The year before, he also had an injury that affected him early in the conference season. Hopefully, he can stay healthy this year.

Yea but everyone deals with injuries during the year. Also his freshman year his shooting numbers took a dive during conference play as well. It seems to me that he can light up lesser competition but struggles when defenders have a better scouting report on him. IMO he's a good shooter but he's not an elite shooter for the college level.

[HeartofaChampion]

DJ's poor B1G shooting the last 2 years can be attributed to 4 things, imo:
1) He doesn't have great shooting form (elbow sticks out some, leading to inconsistent accuracy and a flatter shot).
2) He played heavy minutes running around screens sideline to sideline on O and defending the opponent's top perimeter player on D. Most B1G teams don't send their SG running sideline to sideline around screens possession after possession after possession. OSU's guards, for instance, occasionally run around a screen but by and large either receive a pass and look to create off ball screens or wait on the perimeter for kick-outs from Sullinger or Craft. Lots less wear and tear on the legs.
3) He had injuries to his wrist one season and his ankle another season.
4) His inability or reluctance to drive meant defenders could crowd him on the arc.

It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but the staff is working to clean up DJ's form this summer. I haven't seen him of course, but my buddy says his shot looks better so far, albeit in drills and scrimmages. He'll also most likely play fewer mins next year, which can only help, and he won't have to run himself ragged away from the ball in JG's offense, which will help, too. Hopefully he can enjoy an injury-free SR season, too, and get more open looks from the perimeter in JG's system depending on the success of TA and BP in particular driving the paint to open up room for kick-outs to DJ.

The new staff is also encouraging DJ to drive more, working with him on his handles (not expecting miracles here) and using shot and head/shoulder fakes more when he catches a pass and his defender closes hard at him. That could help as well. He has a nice mid-range pull-up J, though he rarely used it in prior seasons.

[chief9]

Originally Posted by Foo G

So it's not important to practice the way you play in a game?
I'm not saying that a shooter can't be successful without elevation.
My point was that if these guys are playing in a competitive situation, they are going to be releasing their shots at their apex.
Practice does not make perfect.
Perfect practice makes perfect.

In the video, Langford looked like a guy that was just going through the motions.
I realize that it was a small sample and may not be entirely indicative of his workouts.

So you take a very small sample size of one small part of workouts and assume you know exactly how they are practicing the entire time?

yeah...keep making assumptions..

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion

DJ's poor B1G shooting the last 2 years can be attributed to 4 things, imo:
1) He doesn't have great shooting form (elbow sticks out some, leading to inconsistent accuracy and a flatter shot).
2) He played heavy minutes running around screens sideline to sideline on O and defending the opponent's top perimeter player on D. Most B1G teams don't send their SG running sideline to sideline around screens possession after possession after possession. OSU's guards, for instance, occasionally run around a screen but by and large either receive a pass and look to create off ball screens or wait on the perimeter for kick-outs from Sullinger or Craft. Lots less wear and tear on the legs.
3) He had injuries to his wrist one season and his ankle another season.
4) His inability or reluctance to drive meant defenders could crowd him on the arc.

It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but the staff is working to clean up DJ's form this summer. I haven't seen him of course, but my buddy says his shot looks better so far, albeit in drills and scrimmages. He'll also most likely play fewer mins next year, which can only help, and he won't have to run himself ragged away from the ball in JG's offense, which will help, too. Hopefully he can enjoy an injury-free SR season, too, and get more open looks from the perimeter in JG's system depending on the success of TA and BP in particular driving the paint to open up room for kick-outs to DJ.

The new staff is also encouraging DJ to drive more, working with him on his handles (not expecting miracles here) and using shot and head/shoulder fakes more when he catches a pass and his defender closes hard at him. That could help as well. He has a nice mid-range pull-up J, though he rarely used it in prior seasons.

I also don't think the coaching staff the past three years did a good job of putting DJ in better positions to score. He was struggling, not getting enough open shots, and adjustments/tweaks in the office were not made by Weber and staff. Similar to Meyers Leonard: He wasn't getting the ball in the low post with good scoring opportunities nearly enough, but all Weber did was criticize the guards for not being good at feeding the post and criticize Meyers for his attitude, among other things.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that reason #5 could be: Coaching.

[justsomedude]

Originally Posted by ctblaisdell83

I got the impression that a season of very high minutes combined with guarding opponent's best guard/wing wore DJ down to where he first lost his shot, then couldn't keep up on defense

Injuries didn't help, but I think fatigue was a bigger factor

For most of the season Paul was our lockdown defender, not DJ.

[HeartofaChampion]

Originally Posted by justsomedude

For most of the season Paul was our lockdown defender, not DJ.

DJ was assigned to guard a lot of smaller, quicker guards, a role he's not adept at. DJ isn't the quickest defender laterally. Unfortunately, that was an area where we were deficient across the roster. Even TA had a hard time keeping ballhandlers in front of him.