Shooting in Colorado Theater

[illinicb]

BTW, there is one of the news outlets that has a "FORMER FBI PROFILER" (caps reflecting the weight they put on his credentials), Claff Van Something on after every one of these crises and it always seems like he give incredibly broad meaningless "insights" into these events.

[illinicb]

Originally Posted by illinicb

Not sure what the #6 is in your list. What interest groups are there at a mass murder?

Never mind. I think I get it I just saw some quotes from a politician who was commenting on the event and using to push some agenda. Unreal

[ILLINI4life1]

Our phone calls are tracked; internet activity is tracked; shampoo bottles confiscated at airports. But a man can legally and seamlessly buy 6000 rounds of ammunition...hmm something wrong here.

Oh why didn't someone just shoot him (since you can conceal & carry in CO)? Hmm maybe because he gassed the theater and even if you could shoot him, he was wearing bullet proof materials. And maybe because not as many carry or want to carry guns as people think.

Maybe people in rural areas might have had guns on them, but people in metro areas just don't carry guns with them to the movies or grocery store (even in Colorado obviously). This shows that even in a pro-gun state, the "hero" scenario of someone fighting back just doesn't work with a crazy person and gas! Even if 1 of the 100 people there had one, they couldn't win against him. Assault rifle > handgun on any person

Guns can be legal, but they can't be this easy to get... Don't people who don't carry guns have a right to be safe? These massacres are here to stay and will get worse if we don't change policy.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by ILLINI4life1

Oh why didn't someone just shoot him (since you can conceal & carry in CO)? Hmm maybe because he gassed the theater and even if you could shoot him, he was wearing bullet proof materials. And maybe because not as many carry or want to carry guns as people think.

Thank you.

And by the way, you can tax me up to the gills, have the economy fall into the crapper, elect Sarah Palin as president, make a dynasty of Indiana basketball, you name it, and I'm not going to be one of those "I'm moving to Canada" people.

But try to force me to carry a firearm (not saying anyone is proposing that, just saying), and I am on the next plane outta here. I sometimes wonder whether the NRA understands that.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by ILLINI4life1

Our phone calls are tracked; internet activity is tracked; shampoo bottles confiscated at airports. But a man can legally and seamlessly buy 6000 rounds of ammunition...hmm something wrong here.

Oh why didn't someone just shoot him (since you can conceal & carry in CO)? Hmm maybe because he gassed the theater and even if you could shoot him, he was wearing bullet proof materials. And maybe because not as many carry or want to carry guns as people think.

Maybe people in rural areas might have had guns on them, but people in metro areas just don't carry guns with them to the movies or grocery store (even in Colorado obviously). This shows that even in a pro-gun state, the "hero" scenario of someone fighting back just doesn't work with a crazy person and gas! Even if 1 of the 100 people there had one, they couldn't win against him. Assault rifle > handgun on any person

Guns can be legal, but they can't be this easy to get... Don't people who don't carry guns have a right to be safe? These massacres are here to stay and will get worse if we don't change policy.

Out come the idiot comments.

[WinOrElse]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Out come the idiot comments.

No kidding. The victim's bodies hadn't even cooled yet and the "civilized" crowd was already squealing for more gun control. Disgusting.

What these people overlook is that no amount of gun control will stop a nut like this with a well thought out plan to kill as many as possible. Sure, everything this guy used had been obtained legally but an outright ban on guns wouldn't stop someone intent on doing such things. Heck, in most states it's actually easier to obtain guns and ammunition illegally. No ID cards, no training classes, no background checks, no waiting periods. Just cash.

[IlliniAmy]

This guy is just a WEE bit more agitated than I am, but he makes some EXCELLENT points about people from all directions trying to politicize every single tragedy in this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rWY7Eg0qSo

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by WinOrElse

No kidding. The victim's bodies hadn't even cooled yet and the "civilized" crowd was already squealing for more gun control. Disgusting.

What these people overlook is that no amount of gun control will stop a nut like this with a well thought out plan to kill as many as possible. Sure, everything this guy used had been obtained legally but an outright ban on guns wouldn't stop someone intent on doing such things. Heck, in most states it's actually easier to obtain guns and ammunition illegally. No ID cards, no training classes, no background checks, no waiting periods. Just cash.

Exactly. Not the time for politics on this issue.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by WinOrElse

No kidding. The victim's bodies hadn't even cooled yet and the "civilized" crowd was already squealing for more gun control. Disgusting.

What these people overlook is that no amount of gun control will stop a nut like this with a well thought out plan to kill as many as possible. Sure, everything this guy used had been obtained legally but an outright ban on guns wouldn't stop someone intent on doing such things. Heck, in most states it's actually easier to obtain guns and ammunition illegally. No ID cards, no training classes, no background checks, no waiting periods. Just cash.

First of all you need to recalibrate your outrage meter. If you think calls for gun control, right or wrong, are somehow dishonoring the dead, you are a lunatic.

And secondly, of course there is an amount of gun control that could stop something like this. It would take a long time, it's politically impossible and it's almost certainly unconstitutional, but we could do it if we really wanted to.

And third, do we really even need gun control in response to this? This is a 24-year-old kid who had never been a part of any hunting or gun club or any such thing in his life and within six months he bought an assault rife, a shotgun, and a glock, enough ammo to fend off the Union Army, and a head-to-toe tactical SWAT team outfit. Not to mention a couple of tear gas canisters that should ABSOLUTELY be illegal. If we don't have some way to alert someone of that sequence of events, what on earth are we doing?

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

First of all you need to recalibrate your outrage meter. If you think calls for gun control, right or wrong, are somehow dishonoring the dead, you are a lunatic.

And secondly, of course there is an amount of gun control that could stop something like this. It would take a long time, it's politically impossible and it's almost certainly unconstitutional, but we could do it if we really wanted to.

And third, do we really even need gun control in response to this? This is a 24-year-old kid who had never been a part of any hunting or gun club or any such thing in his life and within six months he bought an assault rife, a shotgun, and a glock, enough ammo to fend off the Union Army, and a head-to-toe tactical SWAT team outfit. Not to mention a couple of tear gas canisters that should ABSOLUTELY be illegal. If we don't have some way to alert someone of that sequence of events, what on earth are we doing?

There are ZERO guarentees of safety in this world. No amount of "good intended" governmental regulation will ever put a stop to evil and violence. As I said before - a civilized society would have this maggot executed by monday since there already is a mountain of evidence that collossally trumps any reasonable doubt the mass murderer responsible is in custody. There is no need to allow this vile piece of human garbage to spend another day on this rock.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by Mix Tape

There are ZERO guarentees of safety in this world. No amount of "good intended" governmental regulation will ever put a stop to evil and violence. As I said before - a civilized society would have this maggot executed by monday since there already is a mountain of evidence that collossally trumps any reasonable doubt the mass murderer responsible is in custody. There is no need to allow this vile piece of human garbage to spend another day on this rock.

You have a very interesting perspective on "civilized".

[Sure Shot]

Also, tell me this, how does a 24-year-old nerd kill 15 people in a hypothetical America where he can't get access to a firearm (legal or illegal, there are no guns), nor tear gas, nor body armor, nor enough supplies to make a particularly potent bomb?

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

Also, tell me this, how does a 24-year-old nerd kill 15 people in a hypothetical America where he can't get access to a firearm (legal or illegal, there are no guns), nor tear gas, nor body armor, nor enough supplies to make a particularly potent bomb?

He could have used sharp kitchen knives and killed just as many people. Maybe more.

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

You have a very interesting perspective on "civilized".

I guess I think you do as well.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by Mix Tape

He could have used sharp kitchen knives and killed just as many people. Maybe more.

:laugh:

Quality trolling.

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

:laugh:

Quality trolling.

Sir or madam - you have no clue

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by Mix Tape

Sir or madam - you have no clue

If you are actually suggesting that this kid could have killed as many people with steak knives as with the rig he had set up, I mean, I don't even know how to respond to that.

How? I guess is the response.

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

If you are actually suggesting that this kid could have killed as many people with steak knives as with the rig he had set up, I mean, I don't even know how to respond to that.

exactly you have no clue - the knife is a powerful and dangerous weapon, capable of killing silently - dead people all around before anyone even know whats going on is only one facet of the power of the knife.

you are suggesting that he could not have killed as many people - you have no clue.

[Sure Shot]

Originally Posted by Mix Tape

exactly you have no clue - the knife is a powerful and dangerous weapon, capable of killing silently - dead people all around before anyone even know whats going on is only one facet of the power of the knife.

you are suggesting that he could not have killed as many people - you have no clue.

I....I'm speechless.

[Mix Tape]

Originally Posted by Sure Shot

I....I'm speechless.

after reading all your other posts on the other topics I find that somewhat hard to believe - - you appear as someone who has tons of superior knowledge just waiting to be conveyed to others.

[ILLINI4life1]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Exactly. Not the time for politics on this issue.

You are right, the time for this discussion was last week before this happened. This isn't about politics, its about protecting our loved ones from this happening again. How can you not talk about prevention???

If a bridge collapsed, wouldn't you ask why and how we can prevent this?
If a levy broke, wouldn't you ask why and how we can prevent this?
If an oil spill occurred, wouldn't you ask why and how we can prevent this?

WHEN ARE WE SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT THIS??? The victims and their families deserve to know!!!

These are terror attacks on our own people! And the way to "respect" the dead is to just pray and forget this ever happened? This is going to happen again and again and again and you people don't even CARE! This is supposed to be a discussion forum, so why do you call me an idiot when I am voicing my opinion?

This didn't happen 30 years ago; this is NOT normal. That's why I am asking "why?" All of America deserves to know why and how we can prevent this, so we don't have to live the rest of our lives in fear.

[ILLINI4life1]

Originally Posted by IlliniAmy

This guy is just a WEE bit more agitated than I am, but he makes some EXCELLENT points about people from all directions trying to politicize every single tragedy in this country.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rWY7Eg0qSo

I agree that they should NEVER show the face of these psychos, but how do you not report on one of the worst massacres in US history? The media is just supposed to sweep this under the rug and not report on it at all?

These maniacs are a modern creation; This did not happen as frequently as it does now. I am not saying gun control is the solution or even the problem. I am just saying there needs to be dialogue on what is wrong with our society to create these monsters. If I was killed, I wouldn't care how nice of a funeral I had. I would want the living to defend my life and fight for this to never happen again.

How am I an idiot or insensitive or political to call for prevention? That's why stuff like this keeps happening. Americans don't care anymore about fixing anything. Instead we elect idiots who decide for us and we complain about it. All I want is for someone, regardless of party, to protect the American people. If you don't want to find a solution, then you are the one is dishonoring the dead.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by ILLINI4life1

You are right, the time for this discussion was last week before this happened. This isn't about politics, its about protecting our loved ones from this happening again. How can you not talk about prevention???

If a bridge collapsed, wouldn't you ask why and how we can prevent this?
If a levy broke, wouldn't you ask why and how we can prevent this?
If an oil spill occurred, wouldn't you ask why and how we can prevent this?

WHEN ARE WE SUPPOSED TO TALK ABOUT THIS??? The victims and their families deserve to know!!!

These are terror attacks on our own people! And the way to "respect" the dead is to just pray and forget this ever happened? This is going to happen again and again and again and you people don't even CARE! This is supposed to be a discussion forum, so why do you call me an idiot when I am voicing my opinion?

This didn't happen 30 years ago; this is NOT normal. That's why I am asking "why?" All of America deserves to know why and how we can prevent this, so we don't have to live the rest of our lives in fear.

Fine. You want to talk about it. It's been all of 36 hours but hey, why not?

Your argument is specious, ill-conceived, emotional rubbish, completely devoid of facts.

Number 1, just because a person in the crowd did not prevent the crime doesn't mean that concealed carry laws are bad.

Number 2, Chicago and Washington DC have some of the most proscriptive laws against gun ownership and have some of the highest murder rates in the USA. So clearly gun ownership laws do not impact this sort of thing.

Number 3, fewer than 100 people have been killed in the US in these mass murders that draw attention the past few years (since Columbine in 1999). In that time frame more than 540 people have been killed by lightning strikes in the US. 8400 people died of carbon monoxide poisoning. More than 50,000 people drowned. More than half a million people died in car accidents.

Number 4, Mexico prohibits gun ownership in calibers above .38 and yet they have tens of thousands of murders per year.

Number 5, there were 24,700 murders in the USA in 1992. By 2010 that number had declined to 14,748. So apparently things are improving unlike your emotional claim that gun crime is some kind of new phenomenon. The murder rate is far lower than at any time since the 1966.

The simple fact is that this was a terrible tragedy perpetrated by a deranged madman. Murder rates are declining rapidly in the USA despite far looser gun laws than existed 20 years ago.

Instead of trying to take advantage of a tragedy for your personal political agenda, why don't you just grieve with the rest of us.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by ILLINI4life1

I agree that they should NEVER show the face of these psychos, but how do you not report on one of the worst massacres in US history? The media is just supposed to sweep this under the rug and not report on it at all?

These maniacs are a modern creation; This did not happen as frequently as it does now. I am not saying gun control is the solution or even the problem. I am just saying there needs to be dialogue on what is wrong with our society to create these monsters. If I was killed, I wouldn't care how nice of a funeral I had. I would want the living to defend my life and fight for this to never happen again.

How am I an idiot or insensitive or political to call for prevention? That's why stuff like this keeps happening. Americans don't care anymore about fixing anything. Instead we elect idiots who decide for us and we complain about it. All I want is for someone, regardless of party, to protect the American people. If you don't want to find a solution, then you are the one is dishonoring the dead.

Answer: because you are making stuff up for your own political benefit.

You claim this is a modern phenomenon. Let me introduce you to Mr. Charles Witman. He climbed to the top of the University of Texas - Austin tower and during his rampage killed 16 people and wounded dozens of others. He did this on August 1, 1966.

Need more, meet Charles Starkweather who at the age of 19 took his 14 year girlfriend on a multi-state rampage murdering 11 people. He did this during the winter of 1957-58.

Howard Unruh in 1949 murdered 13 people and was found unfit for trial and remanded to a mental ward for 40 years on the taxpayer's dime.

This isn't new. It isn't unheard of. It's because people sometimes are nuts. It's a horrible tragedy every single time it happens but the rate of it happening is miniscule.

[Umgawa1]

I just wonder how many more in that theater would have died if some idiots in the crowd with concealed weapons had tried to shoot the shooter.