Wife has surgery this morning

[bmb777]

About to head out to the hospital. Hope we are back home quick, by late afternoon at least, and hope it all goes well.

cant resist one comment, glad we have insurance and not obamacare or she might be on a waiting list or something. just kidding.....kinda

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by bmb777

About to head out to the hospital. Hope we are back home quick, by late afternoon at least, and hope it all goes well.

cant resist one comment, glad we have insurance and not obamacare or she might be on a waiting list or something. just kidding.....kinda

Hope she's doing well.

And you do know that you can still have whatever insurance you desire and not
some predetermined one from Obamacare right?

[IntenselyOrange]

I hope all is well bmb.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Hope she's doing well.

And you do know that you can still have whatever insurance you desire and not
some predetermined one from Obamacare right?

Ditto on both points. Wishing her a speedy recovery.

[bmb777]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Hope she's doing well.

And you do know that you can still have whatever insurance you desire and not
some predetermined one from Obamacare right?

unless of course her job decides its cheaper to pay the fines instead of offer their employees insurance. which they can do under the law.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by bmb777

unless of course her job decides its cheaper to pay the fines instead of offer their employees insurance. which they can do under the law.

Everyone who has a job has to have insurance available to them through their place of employment.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Everyone who has a job has to have insurance available to them through their place of employment.

This is not the thread to discuss this, but your statement is completely false.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

This is not the thread to discuss this, but your statement is completely false.

I should have added or they pay a fine and if they would rather take a fine then offer you health insurance then perhaps it isn't a great company to begin with.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

I should have added or they pay a fine and if they would rather take a fine then offer you health insurance then perhaps it isn't a great company to begin with.

Which is exactly what bmb777 stated and you disagreed with in post #5 :rolleyes:

[bmb777]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Everyone who has a job has to have insurance available to them through their place of employment.

wrong. employers have the option to take a penalty and not offer employees insurance. do a google search. some companies have already said they will drop insurance coverage when that part of the bill takes effect.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...alth-coverage/

one in 10 employers plan to drop health coverage when key provisions of the new health care law kick in less than two years from now, according to a survey to be released Tuesday by the consulting company Deloitte.

Nine percent of companies said they expect to stop offering coverage to their workers in the next one to three years, the Wall Street Journal reported. Around 81 percent said they would continue providing benefits and 10 percent said they weren't sure.

The companies, though, said a lot will depend on how future provisions of the law unfold, since most of the key parts are scheduled to take effect in 2014. One in three respondents said they could stop offering coverage if the law requires them to provide more generous benefits than they do now, if a tax on high-cost plans takes effect in 2018 as scheduled or if they decide it would be cheaper for them to pay the penalty for not providing insurance.

[wpr]

God bless bmb777 hope all goes well.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by bmb777

wrong. employers have the option to take a penalty and not offer employees insurance. do a google search. some companies have already said they will drop insurance coverage when that part of the bill takes effect.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/...alth-coverage/

Right which is why I said I should have included in my original post, "or they incur a penalty".

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Which is exactly what bmb777 stated and you disagreed with in post #5 :rolleyes:

I missed that part my apologies.

[bmb777]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Right which is why I said I should have included in my original post, "or they incur a penalty".

for the record I dont forsee her job nor mine opting not to offer insurance. for one she works for united healthcare, and can you imagine the outcry if they didnt offer their employees health insurance? and I work for a hospital so while they wouldnt drop our insurance, even if they did, any care we get that comes from the hospital we only pay like a very small fraction of it. like I had a 800 dollar bill from the ER and Lab, and I had to pay 10 dollars of it.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by bmb777

unless of course her job decides its cheaper to pay the fines instead of offer their employees insurance. which they can do under the law.

They can not offer insurance now and not pay a fine - so why do they offer it? They offer insurance to be competitive, to be generous, to be good emplyers, whatever, none of which the ACA will change. How will the ACA make companies less likely to offer insurance than they are now when now there are no disincentives whatsover for not doing so? Makes no sense, like most fanciful criticisms of ACA.

[wpr]

Originally Posted by illinibob

They can not offer insurance now and not pay a fine - so why do they offer it? They offer insurance to be competitive, to be generous, to be good emplyers, whatever, none of which the ACA will change. How will the ACA make companies less likely to offer insurance than they are now when now there are no disincentives whatsover for not doing so? Makes no sense, like most fanciful criticisms of ACA.

You don't understand then. I insure businesses. If they don't offer insurance some of them offer more in terms of pay or comp package. You can be a "good employer" and not pay for health insurance.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by wpr

You don't understand then. I insure businesses. If they don't offer insurance some of them offer more in terms of pay or comp package. You can be a "good employer" and not pay for health insurance.

I was unclear - employers can offer insurance or not offer insurance now for whatever reasons they want, and whether they do or don't doesn't make them bad or good - I wasn't passing judgment on that at all.

But someone aserted that the ACA will make employers less likely to offer insurance, and that makes no sense. If they're offering it now (and they're rational) they will keep right on doing so because they are totally unaffected by ACA. If they're not they will either continue to not and pay a penalty, or they will begin to offer it to avoid the penalty. That's the whole point.

[AHSIllini32]

Here's my stance:

Me and my wife both have decent/good jobs, we bought a $90K house about 4-5 months, but since I work purely on commission and her place of employment only allows her to work 4 days/week neither of us have any sort of health insurance and there's no way we can afford health insurance from an outside source. How in the world is that right?

I know we are just 2 of millions of people in this country in the same boat. Luckily we are only 26 about to be 27 so we don't have the typical healthy problems that "older adults" have but still, God-forbid something does happen and we are sunk financially.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Here's my stance:

Me and my wife both have decent/good jobs, we bought a $90K house about 4-5 months, but since I work purely on commission and her place of employment only allows her to work 4 days/week neither of us have any sort of health insurance and there's no way we can afford health insurance from an outside source. How in the world is that right?

I know we are just 2 of millions of people in this country in the same boat. Luckily we are only 26 about to be 27 so we don't have the typical healthy problems that "older adults" have but still, God-forbid something does happen and we are sunk financially.

It's called freedom you commie. You are free to be unable to afford health insurance despite being gainfully employed and your employer is free to not provide it here in the land of the free. You say you bought a house? Sounds extravagant to me. I bet you have a cell phone and a TV too you parasite, so if you get sick it's your own damn fault. You don't like it? Move to almost any other country in the civilized world where basic health care is seen as a right, but that's not how we roll here you socialist.

[AHSIllini32]

Originally Posted by illinibob

It's called freedom you commie. You are free to be unable to afford health insurance despite being gainfully employed and your employer is free to not provide it here in the land of the free. You say you bought a house? Sounds extravagant to me. I bet you have a cell phone and a TV too you parasite, so if you get sick it's your own damn fault. You don't like it? Move to almost any other country in the civilized world where basic health care is seen as a right, but that's not how we roll here you socialist.

:laugh: You had me goin there for a minute...well done.

[wpr]

Originally Posted by illinibob

I was unclear - employers can offer insurance or not offer insurance now for whatever reasons they want, and whether they do or don't doesn't make them bad or good - I wasn't passing judgment on that at all.

But someone aserted that the ACA will make employers less likely to offer insurance, and that makes no sense. If they're offering it now (and they're rational) they will keep right on doing so because they are totally unaffected by ACA. If they're not they will either continue to not and pay a penalty, or they will begin to offer it to avoid the penalty. That's the whole point.

I don't have an actual case study but if health ins cost the employer $1500 a month and the fine is $1000 a month there is little incentive to pay for the employee's health care. Add to the mix all the complaining the employees have about their coverage. if the employer is large enough you have to hire someone to administer the program.

Let's go back in time. Why do employers offer health care coverage today? Back in the 50's the IRS code was changed. IF an employer offered health ins to 75% or more of their employees the could deduct 100% of the cost of insurance. If they only offered coverage to selected employees (management or key employees) they could not. Employers realized and showed their employees the employee would save money by letting the employer take care of healthcare. If the employer gave that same amount of money to the employee he would have to pay taxes on it and would have less available to him to purchase the insurance. We don't see it today but health insurance took the place of a raise.

[wpr]

Originally Posted by AHSIllini32

Here's my stance:

Me and my wife both have decent/good jobs, we bought a $90K house about 4-5 months, but since I work purely on commission and her place of employment only allows her to work 4 days/week neither of us have any sort of health insurance and there's no way we can afford health insurance from an outside source. How in the world is that right?

I know we are just 2 of millions of people in this country in the same boat. Luckily we are only 26 about to be 27 so we don't have the typical healthy problems that "older adults" have but still, God-forbid something does happen and we are sunk financially.

AHS I don't know what your maternity plans are. A lot of individual plans either don't offer maternity coverage or they make you wait while the benefit coverage "grows" over several years.

I don't want to sound like a commercial but if you want a recommendation of a insurance company that does a good job on maternity benefits PM me there will be someone in your area.

[illinibob]

Originally Posted by wpr

I don't have an actual case study but if health ins cost the employer $1500 a month and the fine is $1000 a month there is little incentive to pay for the employee's health care. Add to the mix all the complaining the employees have about their coverage. if the employer is large enough you have to hire someone to administer the program.

Let's go back in time. Why do employers offer health care coverage today? Back in the 50's the IRS code was changed. IF an employer offered health ins to 75% or more of their employees the could deduct 100% of the cost of insurance. If they only offered coverage to selected employees (management or key employees) they could not. Employers realized and showed their employees the employee would save money by letting the employer take care of healthcare. If the employer gave that same amount of money to the employee he would have to pay taxes on it and would have less available to him to purchase the insurance. We don't see it today but health insurance took the place of a raise.

But now health insurance costs $1500/mo and the fine is ZERO. So, by your analysis, why would any employer offer it now? I get your point about tax incentives, but are those going to be eliminated? Why would fewer offer it when it costs $1000 not to than will offer it when it costs nothing not to? You know, the old "tax something and you get less of it" argument that is so frequently made. Well if you tax not providing health insurance you will get less employers not providing health insurance.

Not being argumentative for once, you are in the business and I'm really trying to understand what I'm missing.

[wpr]

Originally Posted by illinibob

But now health insurance costs $1500/mo and the fine is ZERO. So, by your analysis, why would any employer offer it now? I get your point about tax incentives, but are those going to be eliminated? Why would fewer offer it when it costs $1000 not to than will offer it when it costs nothing not to? You know, the old "tax something and you get less of it" argument that is so frequently made. Well if you tax not providing health insurance you will get less employers not providing health insurance.

Not being argumentative for once, you are in the business and I'm really trying to understand what I'm missing.

I guess I wasn't clear. Sorry let me try again.

Today the employer pays $1500 a month for the insurance. (A company with 50 employees will be more than $25,000 a month. Depending on coverage and where the firm is located it could be even more.) Under the new law he may opt to pay the $1000 fine (per month) and not pay anything for insurance. (I am sure the real fine would be more than this but we are pretending.) He "saves" $500 a month. Other than having disgruntled employees what is to stop him? The government is getting their fine so they have no say unless it is to increase the fines. Union shops will be different as health benefits are a part of their collective bargaining package. In many places with unemployment rates as high as they are unless the employee is a highly skilled person the employers feel they get someone else to do the same job without the grumbling about no healthcare.

And I tell you truly a lot of businesses in my area have chopped their health care packages so much in the past 20 years. They are just a shell of what once was. I hear people complaining about their benefits all the time. (So what is to "scare" an employer into carrying health insurance? the workers are already unhappy.) I get phone calls from people wanting to drop their company plan and get their own policy. There are all kinds of issues with moving from group insurance to an individual plan and I don't want to go into here if you please. It really takes us away from the original topic.

[IntenselyOrange]

That you can keep your insurance is not completely true. Insurance programs can be grandfathered in but they must continue to meet GOVERNMENT STANDARDS. This means they can't increase rates, they can't increase co-pays, they cannot stop covering certain procedures, etc.

Regarding why would a company drop insurance? Well, if you can go out and get your own relatively inexpensively then why should they front that money? To stay competitive? If this is the consensus approach of small businesses, they will be competitive. More importantly, the government is dictating what the plans have to cover. No more saving money with reasonable co-pays. No more saving money with reasonable deductibles.