10/10 News & Notes

[Dan]

Tim Beckman said Terry Hawthorne practiced today but "didn't practice a whole bunch." Will evaluate after practice tomorrow

Beckman said Hawthorne's feeling "a little bit better. He makes progress every day, which is good to see. He's just a little stiff."

http://twitter.com/WernerESPNCU

[mattcoldagelli]

CBS' Adam Hoge responds to yesterday's "Illini Fans Deserve Better" column by Dave Wischnowsky:

I’ll never criticize fans for demanding the very best. They put their hard-earned money into the program and it should go after the very best. But Illini fans also shouldn’t be surprised when the result is Tim Beckman.

Wisch firmly believes Illinois can be a national power and he points to the rise of the Wisconsin Badgers in the 1990s as evidence that it can happen. That’s where he goes wrong.

When talking about state borders, we are really talking about a football program’s culture within its own state. And in that regard, Illinois has an enormous disadvantage to Wisconsin. In the state of Wisconsin, nearly every family raises their children to be Badger fans and that bond with the Wisconsin football program is now more important than ever as children born in the heart of Barry Alvarez’s most successful mid-90s seasons are now deciding where they are going to go to college. For any football recruit in Wisconsin — elite or not — the Badgers are on their list, guaranteed.

I mostly agree with Hoge in that we can't just follow the Wisconsin roadmap because it worked for them. Wisconsin is everything Illinois isn't: a homogeneous football-first state with a fairly uniform image of itself. People in Wausau are going to feel like they have much more in common with people in Milwaukee than people in Effingham ever would with Chicagoans. It's just the way it is. Add to that a built-in stable of corn-and-dairy fed offensive linemen who grew up watching bad Badger football and you've got a turnkey Big Ten program just waiting for a competent driver.

Dunno about you guys, but when I talk about finding "our Alvarez" I mean that in the sense of someone figuring out what will work specifically for Illinois, which would assuredly be something different than what worked for Wisconsin. I don't know what that is, but then again, a lot of people are getting paid to (allegedly) figure it out.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

Dunno about you guys, but when I talk about finding "our Alvarez" I mean that in the sense of someone figuring out what will work specifically for Illinois, which would assuredly be something different than what worked for Wisconsin. I don't know what that is, but then again, a lot of people are getting paid to (allegedly) figure it out.

What works at Wisconsin, Iowa and Illinois is to hire a good coach. (Alvarez looked to Illinois as a model when he took over at Wisconsin.) Then wait 3 years to see if there are signs of a turnaround. A lot of people though Ferentz was a terrible hire when he was first named, even more reached that conclusion after he went 1-10 his first year (the program had fallen under Fry, but it really hit bottom in Ferentz's first year.)

[quhawks12]

Wischnowsky is a drama queen. I stopped paying attention to him after week 2 I think? Everything is so over the top one way or the other.

[Dan]

[pizzaman]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

CBS' Adam Hoge responds to yesterday's "Illini Fans Deserve Better" column by Dave Wischnowsky:


Wisconsin is everything Illinois isn't: a homogeneous football-first state with a fairly uniform image of itself. People in Wausau are going to feel like they have much more in common with people in Milwaukee than people in Effingham ever would with Chicagoans. It's just the way it is.

I live an hour north of Wausau. Trust me, people in Wausau and up north don't have much in common with Milwaukee residents except for love of the Badgers and Packers.

I've never been able to figure out why the UI doesn't have universal appeal throughout Illinois. It takes more than a football coach. Others have tried to convince me that there are so many universities in and around Illinois that compete with UI while Wisconsin only has UW. That may be part of it.

[I Hate Lemonier]

Originally Posted by pizzaman

I live an hour north of Wausau. Trust me, people in Wausau and up north don't have much in common with Milwaukee residents except for love of the Badgers and Packers.

I've never been able to figure out why the UI doesn't have universal appeal throughout Illinois. It takes more than a football coach. Others have tried to convince me that there are so many universities in and around Illinois that compete with UI while Wisconsin only has UW. That may be part of it.

Consistent winning will bring the universal appeal. A really good coach can bring that. Mike White had the beginnings of it, but could not sustain it after sanctions

[mattcoldagelli]

Originally Posted by pizzaman

I live an hour north of Wausau. Trust me, people in Wausau and up north don't have much in common with Milwaukee residents except for love of the Badgers and Packers.

Seems fairly significant to this conversation, no?

Originally Posted by quhawks12

Wischnowsky is a drama queen. I stopped paying attention to him after week 2 I think? Everything is so over the top one way or the other.

It's funny, he was a holdout on Weber. His rationale was equal parts "He's had a lot of tough breaks" and "How much better can they do?" and it took him until the end of last season to really acknowledge that the move had to be made.

Of course, he's taken the complete opposite tack for football, suggesting Illinois should hire Chris Petersen and then essentially declaring Beckman a failure after four games.

[IlliniRunIn07]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

Seems fairly significant to this conversation, no?

While I'm not pizzaman, I'm thinking his point was to dispute the premise that people in Wausua and Milwaukee have much in common, while endorsing the original point that Wisconsin residents from all over the state have an affinity for UW.

[illinicb]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

CBS' Adam Hoge responds to yesterday's "Illini Fans Deserve Better" column by Dave Wischnowsky:





I mostly agree with Hoge in that we can't just follow the Wisconsin roadmap because it worked for them. Wisconsin is everything Illinois isn't: a homogeneous football-first state with a fairly uniform image of itself. People in Wausau are going to feel like they have much more in common with people in Milwaukee than people in Effingham ever would with Chicagoans. It's just the way it is. Add to that a built-in stable of corn-and-dairy fed offensive linemen who grew up watching bad Badger football and you've got a turnkey Big Ten program just waiting for a competent driver.

Dunno about you guys, but when I talk about finding "our Alvarez" I mean that in the sense of someone figuring out what will work specifically for Illinois, which would assuredly be something different than what worked for Wisconsin. I don't know what that is, but then again, a lot of people are getting paid to (allegedly) figure it out.

I totally agree with you. I live in the northern cuburbs of Chicago and have a fair number of friends and neighbors that are from Wisconsin and/or went to Wisconsin and I have fouond they are REALLY into the Badgers. Not sure if that is a result of their success, but people that are from Wisconsin seem to be born to the culture. When you travel up there, you sense it. Where I live you can see flags from almost every Big Ten school on a Saturday. lots of alums from all over. There are a ton of Illinois alums, but not a ton of fans, but that may just be a function of the downturn in the revenue sports, but other than my 16 year old son, there probably aren't a lot born and bread Illini fans.

We were visiting my daughter at the University of Maryland last weekend and got talking about basketball recruiting because UMD had just lost out to UK for a couple (twins) of top recruits. When talking about playing one year in college, my son said he'd still pick Illinois because that's the place he loves. Thats the good news. The bad news is, he won't be a top recruit.

[quhawks12]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

It's funny, he was a holdout on Weber. His rationale was equal parts "He's had a lot of tough breaks" and "How much better can they do?" and it took him until the end of last season to really acknowledge that the move had to be made.

Of course, he's taken the complete opposite tack for football, suggesting Illinois should hire Chris Petersen and then essentially declaring Beckman a failure after four games.

Exactly he actually really believed we could hire Peterson. Oh well I just stopped reading.

[Dan]

Fee Fi Foe Film: Illinois

Hurry it up or grind it out? For a spread team, Illinois doesn't really go high-tempo, instead moving at around average pace.

Dangerman: Like I said above, Scheelhaase's scrambling ability provides the one real threat from the Illini offense. He wins this category by default.

http://mgoblog.com/content/fee-fi-foe-film-illinois-0

[OlivetNaz]

Originally Posted by quhawks12

Exactly he actually really believed we could hire Peterson. Oh well I just stopped reading.

This cracks me up every time I see it in the coaching carousel threads. Every year, I get to shoot them down. It's become a "shooting fish in a barrel" exercise for me.

Petersen isn't going anywhere anytime soon. His family's happy in Boise, he's happy in Boise, and his friends who have left Boise (Dirk Koetter, Dan Hawkins) for other jobs have repeatedly told him that he'd be crazy to ever LEAVE Boise. Koetter's on record as saying he'll take the job if Petersen DOES leave.

IF Petersen leaves, it most likely won't be until his youngest is done with high school, AND it most likely will be for a Pac-12 school. He spent 5 years as an assistant at Oregon under Bellotti (HC) and Koetter (OC) in the late '90's - that is the most likely destination if Kelly ever leaves.

*steps off soapbox*

[mattcoldagelli]

From the MGoBlog post:

I went over the tape with a friend who played football at the D3 level, and he was shocked by the predictability of Illinois' offense. When going to the shotgun, Illinois plans to pass; they threw on 2/3 of their shotgun snaps, and that number would be higher if not for six(!) give-up-and-punt quarterback draws on third-and-long situations. Illinois had seven charted snaps out of the pistol, running on five of them and throwing two play-action passes. From under center, they ran three play-action passes to just one run, reminiscent of Michigan's use of the I-form.

Even the plays within each set were easy to figure out. Illinois brought out a strange split-back pistol formation twice; both times they ran a fake bubble and threw a screen to a running back leaking out to the opposite side—this worked for a decent gain on the first attempt, then was completely blown up the second time around. Their runs from the shotgun were almost entirely inverted veers; all but one handoff to the running back from the gun went to the edge.

Audibles at the line were easy to decipher. When Scheelhaase checked from a run to a pass, the running back moved from an offset position behind Scheelhaase—where he'd be moving downhill for a handoff—to a position next to the quarterback, where he was in a better spot for a blitz pickup.

No wonder Illinois is 101st in total offense; if this blogger with zero football playing or coaching experience can call out plays before the snap, it's not a good sign.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

Of course, he's taken the complete opposite tack for football, suggesting Illinois should hire Chris Petersen and then essentially declaring Beckman a failure after four games.

Anyone suggesting that we had any shot at hiring Chris Petersen immediately loses all credibility in my eyes.

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by mattcoldagelli

From the MGoBlog post:

Almost every team has formation-specific tendencies. With a simplified offense (remember, we've been juggling OL every week), that will be exacerbated. As long as we go against tendency a third of the time, that will keep a defense reasonably honest.

[pizzaman]

Originally Posted by IlliniRunIn07

While I'm not pizzaman, I'm thinking his point was to dispute the premise that people in Wausua and Milwaukee have much in common, while endorsing the original point that Wisconsin residents from all over the state have an affinity for UW.

Thank you. You summarized my point accurately and succinctly.

I spent 28 years in Illinois and the last 34 in Wisconsin so I haven't been immersed in Illinois culture for a long time but love of the Badgers throughout Wisconsin exceeds anything I experienced in Illinois with the exception of my college days in CU. When we moved here I couldn't grasp it, I'm 200 miles from Madison but on Saturday, Bucky rules.

[quhawks12]

One thing I've been meaning to mention but with all the crappy play going on I forgot. One thing that should help depth next year is that Akeem Spence has not been real good...like at all this year. Possibly a good chance we get him back for his 5th year...

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by quhawks12

One thing I've been meaning to mention but with all the crappy play going on I forgot. One thing that should help depth next year is that Akeem Spence has not been real good...like at all this year. Possibly a good chance we get him back for his 5th year...

I've been wondering about Spence. He hasn't been injured or nicked up from what I've read, but just isn't playing with as much fire. Koenning persistently challenged Spence last year, more than anyone else on the defense. I wonder if he is one of those guys who needs a lot of goading to practice and play hard.

It doesn't seem like Spence likes the new defensive staff very much. Do you really think he would stay around, even if he would be a late draft pick this year?

[quhawks12]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

I've been wondering about Spence. He hasn't been injured or nicked up from what I've read, but just isn't playing with as much fire. Koenning persistently challenged Spence last year, more than anyone else on the defense. I wonder if he is one of those guys who needs a lot of goading to practice and play hard.

It doesn't seem like Spence likes the new defensive staff very much. Do you really think he would stay around, even if he would be a late draft pick this year?

I mean I guess he would go. But seems like if he came back and had another year like 2011 he'd do nothing but improve his draft stock? Maybe playing alongside Vontrell and Teko instead of Foster might help? He went from #3 to #2 on the DL. So instead of OL's having to double Mericlus and then worry about Buchanan off the other edge he just came free up the middle. But even in 1 on 1 situations he seems to be getting just killed off the ball.

I don't know if he would come back or not...but as disappointing a year for the team and him so far might come back to redeem himself??

[Groundhogday]

Originally Posted by quhawks12

I mean I guess he would go. But seems like if he came back and had another year like 2011 he'd do nothing but improve his draft stock? Maybe playing alongside Vontrell and Teko instead of Foster might help? He went from #3 to #2 on the DL. So instead of OL's having to double Mericlus and then worry about Buchanan off the other edge he just came free up the middle. But even in 1 on 1 situations he seems to be getting just killed off the ball.

I don't know if he would come back or not...but as disappointing a year for the team and him so far might come back to redeem himself??

I'm guessing that even the 2012 Spence is better than the other guys in our 2013 rotation. I'd love to have him back for a final year.

I'd be curious to see where he is projected in the draft. I don't think Spence would have the measurements that make scouts drool: a bit short, not particularly fast, not quite big enough to be a prototypical NG but not quick enough to play DE in a 3-4 scheme. I could see Spence as a 4-3 DT in some schemes, but it would have to be the right fit.

[derekholcomb]

Tim Beckman press conference drinking game..."there's no QUESTION"

[quhawks12]

Originally Posted by Groundhogday

I'm guessing that even the 2012 Spence is better than the other guys in our 2013 rotation. I'd love to have him back for a final year.

I'd be curious to see where he is projected in the draft. I don't think Spence would have the measurements that make scouts drool: a bit short, not particularly fast, not quite big enough to be a prototypical NG but not quick enough to play DE in a 3-4 scheme. I could see Spence as a 4-3 DT in some schemes, but it would have to be the right fit.

Oh I'd be thrilled to have him back. And I think we will. I just don't think his performance (so far) this year will allow him to make the jump. He might not get drafted for the reasons you gave above.

[BobtheBarber2]

Originally Posted by pizzaman

I live an hour north of Wausau. Trust me, people in Wausau and up north don't have much in common with Milwaukee residents except for love of the Badgers and Packers.

I've never been able to figure out why the UI doesn't have universal appeal throughout Illinois. It takes more than a football coach. Others have tried to convince me that there are so many universities in and around Illinois that compete with UI while Wisconsin only has UW. That may be part of it.

I've wondered this myself. My best guess is that the selectivity of the University of Illinois plays a big part in the lack of a statewide following.

The chances of a student getting into the U of I are pretty small considering that only the top (guessing here) 10% of a high school class has a legitimate shot at being accepted. That means that once your child is a sophomore in high school and he/she doesn't look like U of I material, families will shift there attention to other in and out of state schools. So after a couple of generations, loyalty to the U of I fades away for a lot of residents.

I suppose if it is easy to get into Wisconsin (I have no idea if it is or not) that would debunk my argument. But I do remember that back when I was in high school Ohio State had to admit anyone with an Ohio high school diploma and they seem to have a statewide following now.

Or maybe it is all just about winning ?

[jbryce111]

Originally Posted by pizzaman

Thank you. You summarized my point accurately and succinctly.

I spent 28 years in Illinois and the last 34 in Wisconsin so I haven't been immersed in Illinois culture for a long time but love of the Badgers throughout Wisconsin exceeds anything I experienced in Illinois with the exception of my college days in CU. When we moved here I couldn't grasp it, I'm 200 miles from Madison but on Saturday, Bucky rules.

1.Because in Illinois you have Chiccago(believe their the entire state) and they dont recognize anything south of Cook County
2. Illinois AD's have been inept (poor coaching decisions)