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Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:03 AM   #1
IntenselyOrange
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This first post isn't really about the term, but more a comment on the reaction.

I'm probably more sensitive than most because I work in an exceptionally liberal environment. But the elation and F-You attitude regarding Obama's re-election is disgusting. It puts democrats in a bad light and further divides this country. The examples of this are countless. Here is a link to an obvious Obama partisan from CNN. I do not understand why everything has to be personal. I don't take it personally when AHS gets on here and says he deserves health care on my dime - it's his opinion. What is it about Obama and liberals where everything has juvenile underlying motivations? Why does this have to be about race when we're dealing with a president who largely ignored job creation in favor of taking over 1/6 of the economy during an epic recession? Why?

Am I the only one that doesn't view politics as sport? These are events that have real implications, yet we treat it like the Super Bowl or World Series.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:31 AM   #2
Sure Shot
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Haha, let me get the ball rolling as usual and make the point that there was plenty of inappropriate backbiting from the right as well.


But I think the larger point is: It happened 36 hours ago. A lot of crazy, really hostile crap has been thrown around for the last couple of years, and I think it's pretty justifiable for there to be some raw nerves and hot emotions. We are not automatons, we're flesh-and-blood people.

And it is sports on some level, and I don't think that's necessarily as unhealthy as you're making it out to be. I voted for Obama with a lot of reservations and no particular enthusiasm, but I'd be lying if I didn't say it felt good to win. I think my happiness was far more for Nate Silver and the forces of objectiveness and empiricism than Barack Obama, but I cracked open a celebratory beverage all the same.

The hangover is coming, we all know that. We've got plenty of heavy policy baggage to unpack before Obama's first term even ends. And there are green shoots of pragmatism and bipartisanship already blooming, albiet coalescing around a conclusion that I pretty sharply disagree with.

But I guess the moral of what I'm saying is, on a night when Democracy was in action, one of the coolest things about our society, I would rather people care than not.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:49 AM   #3
CincinnatiKid
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I don't care for political gloating and I try to avoid it. In this case it was pretty easy because I didn't care for either candidate.

That said it is here to stay with facebook and the social media as well as the 24 hour news cycle emboldening the masses.

Hopefully we can quickly get past it and demand some pragmatic answers from those who we've elected.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:54 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't view politics as sport? These are events that have real implications, yet we treat it like the Super Bowl or World Series.
If you're the first, I'm the second. I've grown to hate both the democrats and republicans at the national level. On the state level, I just dislike them but I'm leaning toward hate. At the local level, I guess they feel they need to belong to a party, so I try to not let my disgust overwhelm my view of the local government.

How can anyone gloat about the past election? They spent BILLIONS and we have the same politicians in the same positions getting their halftime peptalk and preparing to battle for 4 more years.

Massive social unrest and disobedience will force change. Elections won't.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 08:34 AM   #6
AHSIllini32
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Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
This first post isn't really about the term, but more a comment on the reaction.

I'm probably more sensitive than most because I work in an exceptionally liberal environment. But the elation and F-You attitude regarding Obama's re-election is disgusting. It puts democrats in a bad light and further divides this country. The examples of this are countless. Here is a link to an obvious Obama partisan from CNN. I do not understand why everything has to be personal. I don't take it personally when AHS gets on here and says he deserves health care on my dime - it's his opinion. What is it about Obama and liberals where everything has juvenile underlying motivations? Why does this have to be about race when we're dealing with a president who largely ignored job creation in favor of taking over 1/6 of the economy during an epic recession? Why?

Am I the only one that doesn't view politics as sport? These are events that have real implications, yet we treat it like the Super Bowl or World Series.
You know what's even more disgusting? When the right and repubs. blame their loss on more of the "lazy, minorities who want free handouts" showing up. Basically saying Americans are stupider and lazier and that's why Obama won.

That's why the repubs. will never get back into the political picture unless they admit they are greatly behind in their idealogies and views.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 08:48 AM   #7
IntenselyOrange
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You know what's even more disgusting? When the right and repubs. blame their loss on more of the "lazy, minorities who want free handouts" showing up. Basically saying Americans are stupider and lazier and that's why Obama won.

That's why the repubs. will never get back into the political picture unless they admit they are greatly behind in their idealogies and views.
I haven't seen any post on this forum that blames it on lazy minorities. I've seen posts talking about the lazy that want handouts. I've seen posts about minorities who don't like the immigration policies. But I have not seen "lazy minorities" as a term used. You, like the writer I linked may be so racist that you're incapable of having a discussion without interjecting those motives. Most Americans are not.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:12 AM   #8
bert
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I agree politics is too much of a sport. But seeing politics as a sport isn't a liberal problem or a conservative problem. It's an everybody problem.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:26 AM   #9
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I agree politics is too much of a sport. But seeing politics as a sport isn't a liberal problem or a conservative problem. It's an everybody problem.
This may be putting too fine a point on it, but i think elections can be seen as sport, but elections are much different than governing and policy discussions. Politics is very similar to sport. Whether it should be or not is another discussion but no doubt it is not specific to any party.

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Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:39 AM   #10
illynifan34
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You guys are insulting sports.

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Old Nov 8, 2012, 09:49 AM   #11
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Judiciary: This term Obama will almost certainly be able to appoint at least 2 more Supreme court justices. That will cement affirmative action for another generation which is a shame. He will also appoint countless federal judges and stack the court with liberals which may be just fine.

Economy: He will inherit an economy in real trouble and will need a great deal of good fortune for us to not be in a much worse place in 4 years. I expect all but the oldest of us to see Social Security eroded this term. Medicare made more expensive and medicaid more pervasive.

Education: I think we'll see Obama make some noise on reform but quickly back away as it riles up the base if anything other than more $$ is the source of that reform.

Energy: More of the same. Obama will need cheap oil to keep the economy afloat. He won't do anything much on this front that would make oil more expensive. Look for increased fracking.

Taxes: Higher for everyone. More so for the wealthy but everyone gets hit here.

Prices: More of the same. Higher food costs which is a monstrous tax on the poor but probably won't matter to any of us. We may start to see some inflation in the system elsewhere. That would be great if it is moderate and awful if it is severe.

Dollar: I don't think we'll see a wholesale collapse. The rest of the world is so F'd up that the dollar doesn't have a strong currency against which to fall. It probably continues to fall against gold and land.

Military: Wholesale cuts to the military complex. I look for huge reductions in forces this term. I think we get out of Afghanistan and let Iran get the bomb.

Geopolitics: More unrest in the Middle East. Probable overthrow of Assad in Syria. Fundamentalist movements gain traction in previously more secular nations like Tunisia and Egypt. We move away from Israel sharply.

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Old Nov 8, 2012, 10:23 AM   #12
Charleston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
This first post isn't really about the term, but more a comment on the reaction.

I'm probably more sensitive than most because I work in an exceptionally liberal environment. But the elation and F-You attitude regarding Obama's re-election is disgusting. It puts democrats in a bad light and further divides this country. The examples of this are countless. Here is a link to an obvious Obama partisan from CNN. I do not understand why everything has to be personal. I don't take it personally when AHS gets on here and says he deserves health care on my dime - it's his opinion. What is it about Obama and liberals where everything has juvenile underlying motivations? Why does this have to be about race when we're dealing with a president who largely ignored job creation in favor of taking over 1/6 of the economy during an epic recession? Why?

Am I the only one that doesn't view politics as sport? These are events that have real implications, yet we treat it like the Super Bowl or World Series.

I don't think the Democrats are going to pay a price for their attitudes and behaviors, though, for the simple reason that they rarely do. The popular elder statesman of the Democratic party is a perjurer, serial adulterer, sexual harasser, and possible rapist. Yet he was the star of the party convention, one of whose main themes was a mythical "war on women". (the same convention that booed God, of course).

And has Obama ever been held accountable for his actions? He promised to be the post-partisan candidate of hope and change, yet he has governed as the most partisan president in memory. His major "accomplishments" (hardly mentioned in the campaign) were passed with either token or no Republican support. He has often bullied his opponents in venues where they were unable to respond (and it seemed to work with CJ Roberts). His campaign strategy of "kill Romney" was completely devoid of substance (unless you count free birth control mandated by the federal government as substantive). In the debates, he was arrogant, condescending, and petulant. Of course, since he has been an abject failure in governing, his only hope was to run a relentlessly negative, slash and burn campaign, with no mention of his record in office. And it worked.

You're right about elections having consequences, some more than others. In this one, the people have chosen statism and we will have to live with that choice. I fear that American exceptionalism, based on individual freedoms and strong civil institutions, is on the rocks, as the nanny state continues to grow unabated, taking from the productive to create a larger dependency class, which provides an ever larger pool of voters to continue the expansion. It's hard to see how this ends well, especially if you believe in "the land of the free".
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:31 AM   #13
AK Illini
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Congrats to President Obama on a well deserved second term! More great times ahead!
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:50 AM   #14
KBLEE
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What's missing from most of the post-election discussion is the realization the incumbents rarely lose. We didn't even know who the GOP nominee was going to be until late spring. Look at how disliked GWB was, and he too won reelection in 2004.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:51 AM   #15
breadman
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I guess a lot can be said from this last go around.
But let's not get distracted.
There is no difference from either wing of the one big gov party. No difference at all.

Since approx. over one hundred million people voted, we know none of them were Catholic since they are forbidden to vote for evil.

And, it was so much fun writing in these two words on my ballot: "Ron Paul"
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:56 AM   #16
illini80
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I don't think the Democrats are going to pay a price for their attitudes and behaviors, though, for the simple reason that they rarely do. The popular elder statesman of the Democratic party is a perjurer, serial adulterer, sexual harasser, and possible rapist. Yet he was the star of the party convention, one of whose main themes was a mythical "war on women". (the same convention that booed God, of course).

And has Obama ever been held accountable for his actions? He promised to be the post-partisan candidate of hope and change, yet he has governed as the most partisan president in memory. His major "accomplishments" (hardly mentioned in the campaign) were passed with either token or no Republican support. He has often bullied his opponents in venues where they were unable to respond (and it seemed to work with CJ Roberts). His campaign strategy of "kill Romney" was completely devoid of substance (unless you count free birth control mandated by the federal government as substantive). In the debates, he was arrogant, condescending, and petulant. Of course, since he has been an abject failure in governing, his only hope was to run a relentlessly negative, slash and burn campaign, with no mention of his record in office. And it worked.

You're right about elections having consequences, some more than others. In this one, the people have chosen statism and we will have to live with that choice. I fear that American exceptionalism, based on individual freedoms and strong civil institutions, is on the rocks, as the nanny state continues to grow unabated, taking from the productive to create a larger dependency class, which provides an ever larger pool of voters to continue the expansion. It's hard to see how this ends well, especially if you believe in "the land of the free".
I fully expect that the next campaign will feature this exclusively. Reps have lost twice in a row by having candidates that did not attack Obama personally while they were being destroyed. The high road (and that is used extremely loosely in this case) is a path to failure with the American public. Negative campaigns are run because they work.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 11:57 AM   #17
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Congrats to President Obama on a well deserved second term! More great times ahead!
I'm curious to know what has happened in the past 4 years that you are calling Great Times? And give me maybe 5 things that Obama accomplished in his first term that has improved your average U.S. citizens life that has gotten Obama his "well deserved second term". I understand that you will likely point to Obamacare as one, I don't know that, over time, it will prove to be the best way to provide healthcare to the masses, but I'll go ahead and give you that one. What else you got?
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:08 PM   #18
CincinnatiKid
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What's missing from most of the post-election discussion is the realization the incumbents rarely lose. We didn't even know who the GOP nominee was going to be until late spring. Look at how disliked GWB was, and he too won reelection in 2004.
Biggest thing is they have to spend time pandering to the base in the primaries, then shift gears to focus on the moderates in the general.

Romney couldn't get over trying to make Rick Perry Perry look like a liberal on immigration and his harsh statements on abortion.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:17 PM   #19
DaytonIllini
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What's missing from most of the post-election discussion is the realization the incumbents rarely lose. We didn't even know who the GOP nominee was going to be until late spring. Look at how disliked GWB was, and he too won reelection in 2004.
Another thing missing is that 10.4 million fewer people voted for Obama in 2012 than did in 2008. That is hardly a ringing endorsement. Romney had 3.5 million fewer votes than McCain did. What happened to all the voters? It seems like apathy was rampant.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/


Vote totals for each candidate in millions [rough total]:
1988 48.9 to 41.8 [90.7]
1992 44.9 to 39.1 to 19.7 [103.7]
1996 47.4 to 39.2 to 8.1 [94.7]
2000 50.5 to 51.0 [101.5]
2004 62.0 to 59.0 [121]
2008 69.5 to 60.0 [129.5]
2012 59.1 to 56.5 [115.6]



Where have all the voters gone? When we have fewer voters than we did 8 years ago it suggests a lot of apathy. Maybe the message isn't wrong for either party. Maybe both parties just failed to energize their 'base'. 18 million voters disappeared from 4 years ago. Pretty stunning.

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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:19 PM   #20
JW
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Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan View Post
I'm curious to know what has happened in the past 4 years that you are calling Great Times? And give me maybe 5 things that Obama accomplished in his first term that has improved your average U.S. citizens life that has gotten Obama his "well deserved second term". I understand that you will likely point to Obamacare as one, I don't know that, over time, it will prove to be the best way to provide healthcare to the masses, but I'll go ahead and give you that one. What else you got?
(1) Ending the war in Iraq;
(2) Killing Osama bin Laden;
(3) Equal pay for women;
(4) Saving the American auto industry;
(5) Obamacare.

I'm sure I will receive a number of scornful responses. My position is not to advocate for Obama specifically, but rather to provide a debatable answer to a legitimate question.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:19 PM   #21
DaytonIllini
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I'm curious to know what has happened in the past 4 years that you are calling Great Times? And give me maybe 5 things that Obama accomplished in his first term that has improved your average U.S. citizens life that has gotten Obama his "well deserved second term". I understand that you will likely point to Obamacare as one, I don't know that, over time, it will prove to be the best way to provide healthcare to the masses, but I'll go ahead and give you that one. What else you got?
Don't feed the trolls.

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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:23 PM   #22
DaytonIllini
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(1) Ending the war in Iraq;
(2) Killing Osama bin Laden;
(3) Equal pay for women;
(4) Saving the American auto industry;
(5) Obamacare.

I'm sure I will receive a number of scornful responses. My position is not to advocate for Obama specifically, but rather to provide a debatable answer to a legitimate question.
I believe Bush had already negotiated the timetable for leaving Iraq.

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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:25 PM   #23
IntenselyOrange
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(1) Ending the war in Iraq;
(2) Killing Osama bin Laden;
(3) Equal pay for women;
(4) Saving the American auto industry;
(5) Obamacare.

I'm sure I will receive a number of scornful responses. My position is not to advocate for Obama specifically, but rather to provide a debatable answer to a legitimate question.
I won't debate #3. #1 was on Bush's timetable. And the rest are very debatable either in the good coming from those measures or the role he actually played. And I know I'm in the minority, but #2 isn't a huge positive for me.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:25 PM   #24
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[/FONT]
Where have all the voters gone? When we have fewer voters than we did 8 years ago it suggests a lot of apathy. Maybe the message isn't wrong for either party. Maybe both parties just failed to energize their 'base'. 18 million voters disappeared from 4 years ago. Pretty stunning.
Fewer voters or fewer voters for dems and repubs with many going to third parties? (honest question, are your figures all voters or all voters for Obama and Romney?)
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 12:27 PM   #25
JW
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I believe Bush had already negotiated the timetable for leaving Iraq.
I believe the facts suggest otherwise. President Bush wanted to continue an American military presence as did Senator McCain and Gov. Romney.
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