Illini undergo mental makeover

Dan · Nov 13, 2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Groce exudes confidence. He commands the room during press conference, even when the microphone speakers aren't on. Ask him a question about point guards and he'll give you an intricate, two-minute explanation of what he asks out of the position. He's a man with a well-articulated, well-organized plan for every day of work. He's confident in it - and it appears to have rubbed off on his players.

"Confidence is something that is earned," Groce said. "I wish I could wave a magic wand over a guy's head and say, 'You're confident!' I think what happens because of how hard they worked, what they've put into this thing starting last spring, this summer, this fall; the fact that they're collective buy into the unselfishness and effort piece on a daily basis I think is growing. They're starting to understand that that allows you to be more consistent."

Jeremy Werner

illineuron · Nov 13, 2012, 06:00 PM

Werner's description of last year, 'tentative second-guessers'. That's money. It's got to be so much more fun.

illinoisportsfan · Nov 13, 2012, 10:19 PM

I could only laugh when I read this post on the KSU message board tonight:

"Is there anyone still out there who thinks that Bruce Weber can't coach this game?
The defense we played in the first half tonight (I know, it's only Alabama Huntsville) was a clinic in how to play man to man without getting back-doored and beat off the dribble. Great help defense - fighting over, and not under screens - closing out on shooters - limiting the opposition to one shot - and man to man pressure that has forced a multitude of turnovers. AH can't run their offense and have gotten very few open looks at three. This defense is already light years ahead of last season's.

"The motion offense is getting everyone involved, and will only get better and more fluid as the season progresses. Basketball is fun again -- and you can see it on the faces of these players. A huge burden has been lifted. No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game."

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=173&f=2671&t=10474081

Oh, the irony.

I Bomb · Nov 13, 2012, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisportsfan

I could only laugh when I read this post on the KSU message board tonight:

"Is there anyone still out there who thinks that Bruce Weber can't coach this game?
The defense we played in the first half tonight (I know, it's only Alabama Huntsville) was a clinic in how to play man to man without getting back-doored and beat off the dribble. Great help defense - fighting over, and not under screens - closing out on shooters - limiting the opposition to one shot - and man to man pressure that has forced a multitude of turnovers. AH can't run their offense and have gotten very few open looks at three. This defense is already light years ahead of last season's.

"The motion offense is getting everyone involved, and will only get better and more fluid as the season progresses. Basketball is fun again -- and you can see it on the faces of these players. A huge burden has been lifted. No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game."

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=173&f=2671&t=10474081

Oh, the irony.

Sounds familiar, right?

But, if that's what's going on over there then it sounds like everything possibly turned out a win-win for everybody involved. Fine by me...

bleedsorangenblue · Nov 13, 2012, 11:11 PM

Very ironic. I never doubted that Bruce could coach. Somewhere he lost his mojo and the team in the process. Maybe he has learned something and the fresh start is what was needed. From what I know of Martin, he was a tyrant and the guys towed the line more out of fear than dedication. I am sure thay see Bruce more benevolantly. The change has probably done them well. I know a change was certainly needed here and our guys have benefitted greatly. Let's hope that both programs are moving on to better days.

DG1985 · Nov 13, 2012, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue

Very ironic. I never doubted that Bruce could coach. Somewhere he lost his mojo and the team in the process. Maybe he has learned something and the fresh start is what was needed. From what I know of Martin, he was a tyrant and the guys towed the line more out of fear than dedication. I am sure thay see Bruce more benevolantly. The change has probably done them well. I know a change was certainly needed here and our guys have benefitted greatly. Let's hope that both programs are moving on to better days.

well, if he hasn't learned, he's going to fail. if he's got an olympian coaching on the floor, his offense looks great. otherwise, not so much.

Right now, Groce is adjusting very nicely to two lead guards with iffy handles. I'm not convinced that we'd have seen these adjustments with Weber.

Calvin · Nov 14, 2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG1985

well, if he hasn't learned, he's going to fail. if he's got an olympian coaching on the floor, his offense looks great. otherwise, not so much.

Meh, I think you've oversimplified his 9 years here --he was very effective when he arrived. Somewhere along the line, his combination of bringing in talent and coaching that talent took a dive. I liked Weber, but as a fan of winning basketball, I've no regrets about Thomas cutting the thread, and winding up with Groce as the hire.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Weber have a renaissance. A new set of players, especially in those circumstances, might give him a chance to establish a culture there he wouldn't be able to otherwise, here or there.

Good luck to Weber.

Much better luck to Groce

blmillini · Nov 14, 2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisportsfan

I could only laugh when I read this post on the KSU message board tonight:

"Is there anyone still out there who thinks that Bruce Weber can't coach this game?
The defense we played in the first half tonight (I know, it's only Alabama Huntsville) was a clinic in how to play man to man without getting back-doored and beat off the dribble. Great help defense - fighting over, and not under screens - closing out on shooters - limiting the opposition to one shot - and man to man pressure that has forced a multitude of turnovers. AH can't run their offense and have gotten very few open looks at three. This defense is already light years ahead of last season's.

"The motion offense is getting everyone involved, and will only get better and more fluid as the season progresses. Basketball is fun again -- and you can see it on the faces of these players. A huge burden has been lifted. No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game."

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=173&f=2671&t=10474081

Oh, the irony.

I think there are numerous Illini fans that would agree that Bruce can coach. Unfortunately, his drawbacks are related to recruiting, understanding personalities and generally beating guys down over time. I do believe he will have great success the first year or two at K State. If he learned anything about managing people while he was at Illinois he might even be able to extend that or become a very good coach. If not, his team will fade just like we did here. Fortunately for him, I think he probably has much more room for error at Kansas State in terms of tolerance by the fanbase.

illinoisportsfan · Nov 14, 2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blmillini

I think there are numerous Illini fans that would agree that Bruce can coach. Unfortunately, his drawbacks are related to recruiting, understanding personalities and generally beating guys down over time. I do believe he will have great success the first year or two at K State. If he learned anything about managing people while he was at Illinois he might even be able to extend that or become a very good coach. If not, his team will fade just like we did here. Fortunately for him, I think he probably has much more room for error at Kansas State in terms of tolerance by the fanbase.

This is the part that particularly caught my attention:

"Basketball is fun again -- and you can see it on the faces of these players. A huge burden has been lifted. No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game."

Who is this coaching Kansas State and what did he do with the real Bruce Weber?

Ransom Stoddard · Nov 14, 2012, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisportsfan

This is the part that particularly caught my attention:

"Basketball is fun again -- and you can see it on the faces of these players. A huge burden has been lifted. No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game."

Who is this coaching Kansas State and what did he do with the real Bruce Weber?

I think the disparity between Martin and Weber is probably about the same as Weber and Groce--it's just that KSU was starting at Martin, so BW looks pretty good...right now...

Illiniwek06 · Nov 14, 2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ransom Stoddard

I think the disparity between Martin and Weber is probably about the same as Weber and Groce--it's just that KSU was starting at Martin, so BW looks pretty good...right now...

I think this is it, in a nutshell. I won't comment on either coach's coaching ability (Martin/Weber), but from a personality standpoint, it seems that BW is a breath of fresh air. Although I'm very pleased that we got Groce, good luck to BW.

illinicb · Nov 14, 2012, 02:26 PM

Everything I read about Groce gives me reason for optimism. I have no idea how successful he will be, but I really like what I see so far. I love smart people (I wish I was one) and I think he has the smarts, personality and coaching skills to be special.

Cool Hand Luke · Nov 14, 2012, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisportsfan

"No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game."

lol. Wow.

AzIlliniFan · Nov 15, 2012, 01:50 AM

I for one refuse to bash BW. Whatever it is you may think of him, BW and only BW, took us to our greatest success since our one and only National Championship in 1915. His tenure may have ended on a somewhat sour note, (whose doesn't?) but there is no denying what he did for our program. You want to bash, demean, belittle, denigrate, whatever, that's on you. I respect the man. I wish him luck at his current stop. I'd love to play his team at some point in the near future. It was mutually beneficial to both the Illini program and BW to part ways when we did. Let's not be petty about it.

Cool Hand Luke · Nov 15, 2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

I for one refuse to bash BW.

Great. Do what you wish. I don't wish to bash him either. I do like to point out facts about his tenure, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

Whatever it is you may think of him, BW and only BW, took us to our greatest success since our one and only National Championship in 1915.

Agreed. He took a team filled with Bill Self's recruits -- one of which turned out to be arguably the best point guard on the planet and certainly in the top 3 -- and led them to an unbelievable season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

His tenure may have ended on a somewhat sour note, (whose doesn't?) but there is no denying what he did for our program.

Agreed. His tenure ended on a 6 year sour note and there is no denying that he took a top 10-15 program at the time he inherited it and turned it into a perennial bubble team, with the lowlight being embarrassed by 30 points at Nebraska.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

You want to bash, demean, belittle, denigrate, whatever, that's on you.

Agreed. There's no need to bash, demean, belittle, denigrate or whatever. All one needs to do is point out facts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

I respect the man. I wish him luck at his current stop. I'd love to play his team at some point in the near future. It was mutually beneficial to both the Illini program and BW to part ways when we did.

I do not respect him. I do not wish him luck nor do I wish him ill will. I too would like to play his KSU squad and beat them by 40. Agreed, it was mutually beneficial for both companies to part ways, though I'd argue it benefits Illinois basketball more. However, walking away with $4.5 million is very beneficial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

Let's not be petty about it.

Agreed. Just point out facts. The facts speak for themselves in terms of both the good things that happened here under BW and the bad things that happened here under BW.

Botb9 · Nov 15, 2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoisportsfan

This is the part that particularly caught my attention:

"Basketball is fun again -- and you can see it on the faces of these players. A huge burden has been lifted. No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game."

Who is this coaching Kansas State and what did he do with the real Bruce Weber?

Obviously this is the Weber that coached to win, and not concerned about losing.

That Weber has been gone from Illinois for more than just this year.

Botb9 · Nov 15, 2012, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzIlliniFan

I for one refuse to bash BW. Whatever it is you may think of him, BW and only BW, took us to our greatest success since our one and only National Championship in 1915. His tenure may have ended on a somewhat sour note, (whose doesn't?) but there is no denying what he did for our program. You want to bash, demean, belittle, denigrate, whatever, that's on you. I respect the man. I wish him luck at his current stop. I'd love to play his team at some point in the near future. It was mutually beneficial to both the Illini program and BW to part ways when we did. Let's not be petty about it.

I grow weary of it too. I'd rather remember the man's accomplishments here. I think there will always be those who say he lucked out with the players he inherited and was never able to recapture it, but it was still further along than any other coach we had, so he deserves his due.

I hope he's grown as a coach and as a person because of this experience and never lets KSU get to the point that he let us get to.

BobIlliniK · Nov 15, 2012, 10:26 AM

I wish the best for BW. He always struck me as a good guy.

illinoisportsfan · Nov 15, 2012, 11:33 AM

I'm sorry. I never meant my post in this thread to be a rip on Weber. I just found it funny that some Kansas State fans were saying the same things about their new coach as Illinois fans are about Groce -- especially the part about the players looking like they're having fun again. I just found it ironic and wanted to share.

IlliniCrusader · Nov 15, 2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Great. Do what you wish. I don't wish to bash him either. I do like to point out facts about his tenure, however.

A spade is a spade - even if you disguise it as a heart

This thread should go away.

chiefcub69 · Nov 15, 2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke

Great. Do what you wish. I don't wish to bash him either. I do like to point out facts about his tenure, however.

Agreed. He took a team filled with Bill Self's recruits -- one of which turned out to be arguably the best point guard on the planet and certainly in the top 3 -- and led them to an unbelievable season.

Agreed. His tenure ended on a 6 year sour note and there is no denying that he took a top 10-15 program at the time he inherited it and turned it into a perennial bubble team, with the lowlight being embarrassed by 30 points at Nebraska.

Agreed. There's no need to bash, demean, belittle, denigrate or whatever. All one needs to do is point out facts.

I do not respect him. I do not wish him luck nor do I wish him ill will. I too would like to play his KSU squad and beat them by 40. Agreed, it was mutually beneficial for both companies to part ways, though I'd argue it benefits Illinois basketball more. However, walking away with $4.5 million is very beneficial.

Agreed. Just point out facts. The facts speak for themselves in terms of both the good things that happened here under BW and the bad things that happened here under BW.

Amen!!!!

Combo · Nov 15, 2012, 11:43 AM

I think Weber can coach. He did a masterful job with the 2005 team. Having said that, something happened in the following years where he lost his mojo big-time. It was obvious toward the end that he needed to go.

Maybe the change of scenery will help him get it back. In the meantime, I'm getting more and more confident about Groce everyday.

Groundhogday · Nov 15, 2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DG1985

well, if he hasn't learned, he's going to fail. if he's got an olympian coaching on the floor, his offense looks great. otherwise, not so much.

You obviously never saw Weber's SIU teams play.

Groundhogday · Nov 15, 2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blmillini

I think there are numerous Illini fans that would agree that Bruce can coach. Unfortunately, his drawbacks are related to recruiting, understanding personalities and generally beating guys down over time. I do believe he will have great success the first year or two at K State. If he learned anything about managing people while he was at Illinois he might even be able to extend that or become a very good coach. If not, his team will fade just like we did here. Fortunately for him, I think he probably has much more room for error at Kansas State in terms of tolerance by the fanbase.

The key for Weber at KSU is the same as the key for his downfall at Illinois: recruiting. And that is the area where at present Groce appears to be light years ahead.

Redfoxdogs · Nov 15, 2012, 01:59 PM

Been lurking for a long time to get quick sports news. I'd have to agree that Weber outlived his effectiveness in C-U and wish him the best at KState. Particularly since my mom graduated from KState in 1952...the only non Illini in the family! I noticed in my Illinois Bands alumni newsletter that a "Bruce B. and Megan G. Weber" donated in the $1000-$4900 range last year. $5000 is enough to buy one of those shiny new silver Sousaphones my son has been playing on the field this year. If that Weber is our former bb coach, he really is a class act. Nice to see some appreciation for the kids who show up and help to put on a good show. The MI and BB band are there for the coaches and kids putting out max effort and high energy for the whole game. WIN OR LOSE.

Nov 14, 2012, 02:26 PM	#12
illinicb Location: Northbrook Posts: 5,752	Everything I read about Groce gives me reason for optimism. I have no idea how successful he will be, but I really like what I see so far. I love smart people (I wish I was one) and I think he has the smarts, personality and coaching skills to be special. __________________ "I could care less" does not mean the same as "I couldn't care less"

Nov 13, 2012, 06:00 PM	#2
illineuron Posts: 143	Werner's description of last year, 'tentative second-guessers'. That's money. It's got to be so much more fun.

Nov 13, 2012, 10:19 PM	#3
illinoisportsfan Posts: 499	I could only laugh when I read this post on the KSU message board tonight: "Is there anyone still out there who thinks that Bruce Weber can't coach this game? The defense we played in the first half tonight (I know, it's only Alabama Huntsville) was a clinic in how to play man to man without getting back-doored and beat off the dribble. Great help defense - fighting over, and not under screens - closing out on shooters - limiting the opposition to one shot - and man to man pressure that has forced a multitude of turnovers. AH can't run their offense and have gotten very few open looks at three. This defense is already light years ahead of last season's. "The motion offense is getting everyone involved, and will only get better and more fluid as the season progresses. Basketball is fun again -- and you can see it on the faces of these players. A huge burden has been lifted. No one comes out of a game after a missed shot, a blown defensive assignment, or a turnover. Instead, they learn on the spot, play even harder to do it better the next time instead of languishing on the bench for the rest of the game." http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=173&f=2671&t=10474081 Oh, the irony.

Nov 13, 2012, 11:11 PM	#5
bleedsorangenblue Location: C-U Posts: 944	Very ironic. I never doubted that Bruce could coach. Somewhere he lost his mojo and the team in the process. Maybe he has learned something and the fresh start is what was needed. From what I know of Martin, he was a tyrant and the guys towed the line more out of fear than dedication. I am sure thay see Bruce more benevolantly. The change has probably done them well. I know a change was certainly needed here and our guys have benefitted greatly. Let's hope that both programs are moving on to better days.

Nov 15, 2012, 01:50 AM	#14
AzIlliniFan Posts: 2,043	I for one refuse to bash BW. Whatever it is you may think of him, BW and only BW, took us to our greatest success since our one and only National Championship in 1915. His tenure may have ended on a somewhat sour note, (whose doesn't?) but there is no denying what he did for our program. You want to bash, demean, belittle, denigrate, whatever, that's on you. I respect the man. I wish him luck at his current stop. I'd love to play his team at some point in the near future. It was mutually beneficial to both the Illini program and BW to part ways when we did. Let's not be petty about it.

Nov 15, 2012, 10:26 AM	#18
BobIlliniK Posts: 1	I wish the best for BW. He always struck me as a good guy.

Nov 15, 2012, 11:33 AM	#19
illinoisportsfan Posts: 499	I'm sorry. I never meant my post in this thread to be a rip on Weber. I just found it funny that some Kansas State fans were saying the same things about their new coach as Illinois fans are about Groce -- especially the part about the players looking like they're having fun again. I just found it ironic and wanted to share.

Nov 15, 2012, 11:43 AM	#22
Combo Posts: 764	I think Weber can coach. He did a masterful job with the 2005 team. Having said that, something happened in the following years where he lost his mojo big-time. It was obvious toward the end that he needed to go. Maybe the change of scenery will help him get it back. In the meantime, I'm getting more and more confident about Groce everyday.

Nov 15, 2012, 01:59 PM	#25
Redfoxdogs Location: Gurnee, IL Posts: 46	Been lurking for a long time to get quick sports news. I'd have to agree that Weber outlived his effectiveness in C-U and wish him the best at KState. Particularly since my mom graduated from KState in 1952...the only non Illini in the family! I noticed in my Illinois Bands alumni newsletter that a "Bruce B. and Megan G. Weber" donated in the $1000-$4900 range last year. $5000 is enough to buy one of those shiny new silver Sousaphones my son has been playing on the field this year. If that Weber is our former bb coach, he really is a class act. Nice to see some appreciation for the kids who show up and help to put on a good show. The MI and BB band are there for the coaches and kids putting out max effort and high energy for the whole game. WIN OR LOSE.