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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:16 PM   #76
illinisc
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Originally Posted by Madturkillini View Post
I know it is too early to reach conclusions, but so far it looked like Groce's system heavily relies on 3 pointers, and somewhat to the PG's ability to attack the rim, so I'm not sure how much MH's mid range game ability will be utilized within this system.

Evan Turner like?
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:16 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Illiniwek06 View Post
I haven't seen Hill's game footage, but I read that he gets to the line a ton, so I assume that he can slash. I've also read (I forget the source - Henricksen? or maybe doughnut brothers) that he has one of the best mid range games in the 2013 class. I don't recall if that was in reference to just the state of IL or if it was national.
I've seen Hill quite a bit - what you just said is pretty accurate. Hill also is a much better 3 point shooter than most give him credit for. Getting to the line a lot is what Malcolm does & is something that Illinois basketball has been lacking for quite some time now. He also has a knack for selling fouls too. One game I saw he drew two 4-point plays in one half with his nifty leg kick he does.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Madturkillini View Post
I know it is too early to reach conclusions, but so far it looked like Groce's system heavily relies on 3 pointers, and somewhat to the PG's ability to attack the rim, so I'm not sure how much MH's mid range game ability will be utilized within this system.
Yeah, I wasn't implying that MH doesn't have a 3 point shot. I just was not aware one way or the other if his range out to 3 was developing/consistent/or a strength. However, I do know that I have read his about his ability to get to the line and his mid-range jumper as strengths. I'm excited to see him in O&B.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:23 PM   #79
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I think it's more like the players in this system are used to taking three-pointers, so the 'take your best shot' mentality works better from three for these guys. In the end, when we have an entirely Groce-recruited class, we'll see more driving to the basket.

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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:23 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Madturkillini View Post
I know it is too early to reach conclusions, but so far it looked like Groce's system heavily relies on 3 pointers, and somewhat to the PG's ability to attack the rim, so I'm not sure how much MH's mid range game ability will be utilized within this system.
Bracket that by the fact that Groce's system is dependent on what he has at his disposal. The question is is he restricted in any way and if so what would the system look like were it not to have any restrictions.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:33 PM   #81
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Bracket that by the fact that Groce's system is dependent on what he has at his disposal. The question is is he restricted in any way and if so what would the system look like were it not to have any restrictions.
Every team he's coached has been in the top 3rd of CBB in 3 pt attempt/FGA. He's going to always use spacing to open up the lane and want to shoot a fairly high clip of threes. Don't get me wrong, if he get's big Cliff, I'm sure that % will go down some, but I think it's a part of his system.

He doesn't want 15 - 20 foot shots almost ever. Use spacing to create driving lanes.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:56 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by justsomedude View Post

He doesn't want 15 - 20 foot shots almost ever. Use spacing to create driving lanes.
That's exactly what it looks like so far. I hope this will change with the player profile. ~20 attempts per game is a lot, but it is still a 'healthy tendency' rather than the opponents knowing we will almost always go for the 3-pt shot. 30+ attempts from behind the 3-pt line is just excessive. By all means, take them if you are wide open, but to be honest you don't normally get more than 10-12 wide open 3-pt shots per game.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:06 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Madturkillini View Post
That's exactly what it looks like so far. I hope this will change with the player profile. ~20 attempts per game is a lot, but it is still a 'healthy tendency' rather than the opponents knowing we will almost always go for the 3-pt shot. 30+ attempts from behind the 3-pt line is just excessive. By all means, take them if you are wide open, but to be honest you don't normally get more than 10-12 wide open 3-pt shots per game.
You do if your drives are working.

The idea is they have to choose to pack in the lane or play the three point line. If they stay out on shooters you should be able to get Tracy, Brandon and Joe getting all the way to the hoop. If they collapse in and help on those then you kick out to DJ, Tyler, & Myke.

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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:07 PM   #84
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With how many 3's it seems we will be taking, why wouldnt we be interested in peyton allen?
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:09 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by ChiCityHoops34 View Post
With how many 3's it seems we will be taking, why wouldnt we be interested in peyton allen?
Fit.

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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:11 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by ChiCityHoops34 View Post
With how many 3's it seems we will be taking, why wouldnt we be interested in peyton allen?

My guess is that hes' not a good enough ball handler or defender for Groce's liking. Also he's a 2014 right? I think we have more pressing needs at other positions for that class.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:15 PM   #87
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You do if your drives are working.

The idea is they have to choose to pack in the lane or play the three point line. If they stay out on shooters you should be able to get Tracy, Brandon and Joe getting all the way to the hoop. If they collapse in and help on those then you kick out to DJ, Tyler, & Myke.
knocking down the pull up jumper is another weapon that this offense can thrive on because as soon as the D collapses on the drive because they are expecting the drive to the basket there is an opportunity to pull up and get a mid range game. Hopefully Hill will thrive in this role
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:25 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by IlliniFreak7 View Post
knocking down the pull up jumper is another weapon that this offense can thrive on because as soon as the D collapses on the drive because they are expecting the drive to the basket there is an opportunity to pull up and get a mid range game. Hopefully Hill will thrive in this role
Now that's an option that I'd like to have. I certainly thought DJ has the ability to do that, it's just we almost never see him doing it. If Groce's system allows, I'd like to see MH doing that.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:52 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Madturkillini View Post
Now that's an option that I'd like to have. I certainly thought DJ has the ability to do that, it's just we almost never see him doing it. If Groce's system allows, I'd like to see MH doing that.
It certainly allows it. JG's system is based around the dribble drive whether thru isolation or, more frequently, screen and roll/pop. Now off of that the 3 is going to be a popular shot thru drive and kicks, but when Malcolm comes off the screen his game allows for an extra dimension. He can get all the way to the cup for a layup/dunk or draw a foul or take a pull up/mid-range jumper. He can kick out to Nunn or another teammate for 3, or, like we've seen a lot this year with DJ and BP3, come off the pick and fire the 3. That will put the pressure on the defense because a player like Malcolm has a diverse arsenal.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:54 PM   #90
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Something that bothers me a bit.......I've saw quite a few people either undervaluing or greatly undervaluing our 13 class
Look according to rivals we have three 4* recruits. One nunn that dropped in the rankings because he was busy winning a gold medal for our country. And one hill that dropped in therankings due to an injury that kept him out of AAU ball the entire summer. Plus our other 4* Colbert.
Then the other 2 3* in 6'10" 250 pound (no need to go on the 5500 calorie/day tisdale diet) banger. And Tate who was a top 30 or 40 recruit prior to transferring to simeon his junior year. I think his stock is going to skyrocket this year now that he knows simeon's system. I believe both Tate and nunn's stock will skyrocket this year since Parker may not even play this season due to injury.
I know as illini fans its hard to get too excited because we think we always get hopes up only to get let down but I seriously think this is a damn good class.
Thoughts anyone???
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:00 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by jonnymo View Post
Something that bothers me a bit.......I've saw quite a few people either undervaluing or greatly undervaluing our 13 class
Look according to rivals we have three 4* recruits. One nunn that dropped in the rankings because he was busy winning a gold medal for our country. And one hill that dropped in therankings due to an injury that kept him out of AAU ball the entire summer. Plus our other 4* Colbert.
Then the other 2 3* in 6'10" 250 pound (no need to go on the 5500 calorie/day tisdale diet) banger. And Tate who was a top 30 or 40 recruit prior to transferring to simeon his junior year. I think his stock is going to skyrocket this year now that he knows simeon's system. I believe both Tate and nunn's stock will skyrocket this year since Parker may not even play this season due to injury.
I know as illini fans its hard to get too excited because we think we always get hopes up only to get let down but I seriously think this is a damn good class.
Thoughts anyone???
Now you've done it. Taken my extremely good feelings about this class and given me a reason. Heck, I didn't even need a reason to feel good (but did anyway) and now I have one.

Actually, think all of your comments have been made individually and over a great deal of time, but pulling them all together in one post . . . vehhhrrry interesting. I think you are onto something.

Put that together with the fact that it appears that CJG can develop them further and this could be good. Very good.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:15 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by jonnymo View Post
Something that bothers me a bit.......I've saw quite a few people either undervaluing or greatly undervaluing our 13 class
Look according to rivals we have three 4* recruits. One nunn that dropped in the rankings because he was busy winning a gold medal for our country. And one hill that dropped in therankings due to an injury that kept him out of AAU ball the entire summer. Plus our other 4* Colbert.
Then the other 2 3* in 6'10" 250 pound (no need to go on the 5500 calorie/day tisdale diet) banger. And Tate who was a top 30 or 40 recruit prior to transferring to simeon his junior year. I think his stock is going to skyrocket this year now that he knows simeon's system. I believe both Tate and nunn's stock will skyrocket this year since Parker may not even play this season due to injury.
I know as illini fans its hard to get too excited because we think we always get hopes up only to get let down but I seriously think this is a damn good class.
Thoughts anyone???
We always think our recruits stocks will skyrocket, and it usually doesn't happen, so don't hold your breath on that.

I expect Nunn to be ready to play right away, and I think he should slide in and be just as good as DJ is immediately, maybe better on defense.

I think Hill is a fantastic prospect who may have a slower learning curve but as an upperclassman could lead the team in scoring and potentially be on NBA radars.

With the other 3, I think my hopes are that they develop into starters as upperclassmen, but the odds are against them all getting there. At the least, Morgan and Tate should be able to play important backup roles throughout their careers.

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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:23 PM   #93
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Uhhhh did anyone see how bad we got out rebounded against Hawaii?????
I think #1 priority in 14 should be a pure rebounder. I don't care if they are big bodied or small bodied or 6 foot or 7'6". We NEED rebounding.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:54 PM   #94
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Uhhhh did anyone see how bad we got out rebounded against Hawaii?????
I think #1 priority in 14 should be a pure rebounder. I don't care if they are big bodied or small bodied or 6 foot or 7'6". We NEED rebounding.

Agreed. Although losing KBD sucks, our biggest needs in the '14 class are a tough PF/C type and a quality PG. My hope is that we get Alexander, though I know it's not too likely. Add him to what we would have coming back and the '14/15 team could be very good.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:56 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by illiniobserver22 View Post
We always think our recruits stocks will skyrocket, and it usually doesn't happen, so don't hold your breath on that.

I expect Nunn to be ready to play right away, and I think he should slide in and be just as good as DJ is immediately, maybe better on defense.

I think Hill is a fantastic prospect who may have a slower learning curve but as an upperclassman could lead the team in scoring and potentially be on NBA radars.

With the other 3, I think my hopes are that they develop into starters as upperclassmen, but the odds are against them all getting there. At the least, Morgan and Tate should be able to play important backup roles throughout their careers.

Amen to that. Year after year, we argue that our recruits are underrated and/or will climb up the rankings. I would think over time, folks would figure out that some of our kids are overrated, some are underrated, and some are rated just about right.

Human nature I guess.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:09 PM   #96
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Amen to that. Year after year, we argue that our recruits are underrated and/or will climb up the rankings. I would think over time, folks would figure out that some of our kids are overrated, some are underrated, and some are rated just about right.

Human nature I guess.
You have to assume with Tate and Nunn playing on the best team in the countilly hey will get plenty of exposure to improve their rankings. A 6'7 shooting guard in the metro east should at least get some consideration because he was on the rise after missing the AAU season with a blood clot to jump in the rankings. MH scores 25-30 ppg his ranking will rise. Colbert and Morgan especially since people are just starting to realize his potential have a chance to solidify in AC's case and MM could play his way into the top 100.

Last edited by zoggle101; Nov 19, 2012 at 05:16 PM.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:13 PM   #97
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Amen to that. Year after year, we argue that our recruits are underrated and/or will climb up the rankings. I would think over time, folks would figure out that some of our kids are overrated, some are underrated, and some are rated just about right.

Human nature I guess.
Exactly, theres a reason rankings exist and a lot of time they are a pretty good read at the general level of the players. In our case I feel (just my opinion) that Hill is definitely underrated due to his injury as its not anything that should have lasting effect, for example if he injured his knee.
Tate im hoping should jump quite a bit in the rankings up to around the 80s due to actually playing this year but I doubt hell climb much farther than that unless he really blows up this year.
Morgan is clearly not totally polished if hes rated that lowly but im hoping (key word is hoping) he'll be around 100 rather than 150 by the end of the year but well see.
Colbert I bet stays just around where hes at as there havent been any extenuating circumstances and hes already at top 100 player.
Finally, for Nunn, if he really did get more bounce and maybe even grew an inch could move up but I doubt we see too much movement.

The real thing to remember is that its not rankings but how the players fit into the system and how they develop that really determines how good they are.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:49 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by First2Ten View Post
I've seen Hill quite a bit - what you just said is pretty accurate. Hill also is a much better 3 point shooter than most give him credit for. Getting to the line a lot is what Malcolm does & is something that Illinois basketball has been lacking for quite some time now. He also has a knack for selling fouls too. One game I saw he drew two 4-point plays in one half with his nifty leg kick he does.
I've seen Hill play as well. He's just one of those guys that can score...he finishes at the rim with contact, has a great mid range jumper, and like you said can really shoot the three. He can take his man off the dribble and is so hard to guard because he can score from those three spots (deep, mid, at the rim). If he is 6'7" like you said then no wonder KBD doesn't want to play here.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:50 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Dan View Post
The Class of 2013 sent in their NLOIs last Wednesday, so it's time to start over with a brand new hoops recruiting thread.

Illinois Basketball Class of 2013-

* Austin Colbert
* Malcolm Hill
* Maverick Morgan
* Kendrick Nunn
* Jaylon Tate

http://www.fightingillini.com/sports...111412aac.html
Thank you Dan!
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 06:09 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by IlliniFace View Post
Also, Rivals had Brandon Paul listed as 6'2'' coming out of high school and I don't ever recall hearing he grew after he enrolled. Who knows though, I grew 2 inches my freshman year at UIUC (definitely wasn't the food at the six-pack).

Watching what little video I've seen of Nunn it seems like he has a similar build and athleticism to Paul and is a better defender at this stage in his development.
I grew several inches my freshman year too. However, I DO blame the food at the six pack ( that and Pizza World!) I just wish the inches were vertical :laugh:
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