Michigan Right-to-work Protests

[KBLEE]

It was estimated that 10,000 protesters showed up at the capitol building in Lansing, MI today to voice their displeasure over the MI legislature's voting to become a Right-to-work state.

A friend of mine from high school works for the City of Lansing and posted this picture from his office window today:



Apparently things have gotten a bit out of hand. At least 2 tents have been destroyed and FoxNews contributor, Steven Crowder, was assaulted by union thugs:

[DaytonIllini]

Yummy unions!

[-josh-]

NOOOOO, now we have to actually work hard and do our jobs!!!!! Cry me a river.

[mdonsbach]

So many words I could say but I won't. FYI I'm all for right to work.

At my current employer as a MAN I started as a receptionist. That's right a receptionist making 19K back in 2005.

I was thankful for the job. Worked my butt of everyday did whatever they asked for me never complained...showed some competence and in the period of 7 years I have had 4 different promotions each one of which I did not apply for nor was I trained in but because I worked my rear end off and the "big wigs" saw value in me as an employee entrusted me with more responsiblity.

Never once did I feel entitled to any of those positions.

Everyone is in sales. If you don't bring value to the company you will be fired.

Alot of bunch of random thoughts I know.

[gibb52]

Originally Posted by mdonsbach

So many words I could say but I won't. FYI I'm all for right to work.

At my current employer as a MAN I started as a receptionist. That's right a receptionist making 19K back in 2005.

I was thankful for the job. Worked my butt of everyday did whatever they asked for me never complained...showed some competence and in the period of 7 years I have had 4 different promotions each one of which I did not apply for nor was I trained in but because I worked my rear end off and the "big wigs" saw value in me as an employee entrusted me with more responsiblity.

Never once did I feel entitled to any of those positions.

Everyone is in sales. If you don't bring value to the company you will be fired.

Alot of bunch of random thoughts I know.

Well said, not random at all.

[illinifan31]

Just saw this today. Come on...

[NorthwesternIllini4]

Absolutely disgraceful.

I'm a pretty staunch Democrat, but I absolutely hate unions and this does nothing to temper those feelings. What classlessness

[pizzaman]

Unions have a history of violence. My grandfather was a coal miner in southern Illinois. My best friend's grandfather was also a southern Illinois coal miner. When those two got together they told tales of the Herrin battles where several people died. My friend and I went to the library to do a little research because we couldn't believe what our grandfathers were telling us and what our relatives did to support the miners.

[Joel Goodson]

Faux News strikes again: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2....php?ref=fpblg

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by Joel Goodson

Faux News strikes again: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2....php?ref=fpblg

Did you actually read the NY Times piece? Or just the liberal blog you linked to?

The guy punched Crowder. Nobody disputes that. Crowder doesn't want to press charges. How does that change the fact he was punched by a thug? The idea that the attacker may have been trying to storm the tent and in the course of that was knocked down by the milling throng, gets back up and punches Crowder is in no way a mitigating factor.

In fairness, we don't know who the guy is. Maybe he isn't a union supporter. Pressing charges would let the world know one way or the other. All we know now is that union protesters are foul mouthed and tend to threaten violence quickly. Hardly a surprise.

[pizzaman]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

All we know now is that union protesters are foul mouthed and tend to threaten violence quickly. Hardly a surprise.

I paid for college from money I earned while a member of the steel workers union in the 60's. I was around some union members involved in union support for strikers at a different shop than where I was working. They didn't take kindly to scabs and weren't afraid to threaten and follow it up if their threats weren't taken seriously. Angry union guys were scary. The war protesters of the same era were harmless by comparison.

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by pizzaman

I paid for college from money I earned while a member of the steel workers union in the 60's. I was around some union members involved in union support for strikers at a different shop than where I was working. They didn't take kindly to scabs and weren't afraid to threaten and follow it up if their threats weren't taken seriously. Angry union guys were scary. The war protesters of the same era were harmless by comparison.

Violence has always been part of the labor scene. Sometimes the unions have broken heads. At other times they got killed.

[Joel Goodson]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Did you actually read the NY Times piece? Or just the liberal blog you linked to?

The guy punched Crowder. Nobody disputes that. Crowder doesn't want to press charges. How does that change the fact he was punched by a thug? The idea that the attacker may have been trying to storm the tent and in the course of that was knocked down by the milling throng, gets back up and punches Crowder is in no way a mitigating factor.

In fairness, we don't know who the guy is. Maybe he isn't a union supporter. Pressing charges would let the world know one way or the other. All we know now is that union protesters are foul mouthed and tend to threaten violence quickly. Hardly a surprise.

Did you read the article? The money quote comes from the Michigan State Police spokesperson (and not the liberal blog staffer): “If somebody broke into your house, wouldn’t you immediately report it to the police? If someone assaulted you or your family member wouldn’t you report it immediately to the police?” Adamczyk said. “Well, why wouldn’t you, unless there’s a personal agenda there.”

The "reporter" was assaulted. Why won't he press charges? Why hasn't the unedited tape been released? I'm going w/Occam's Razor: the "reporter" (and his backers) have an agenda. Similar to O'Keefe. Wait, maybe the spokesperson is a hard-core lefty (can't attack the message, attack the messenger).

FWIW, I abhor violence & threats of violence and support prosecution of all involved in those activities.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Joel Goodson

Did you read the article? The money quote comes from the Michigan State Police spokesperson (and not the liberal blog staffer): “If somebody broke into your house, wouldn’t you immediately report it to the police? If someone assaulted you or your family member wouldn’t you report it immediately to the police?” Adamczyk said. “Well, why wouldn’t you, unless there’s a personal agenda there.”

And you're missing the whole point. There were hundreds of police on site at this protest rally, and likely in the very vicinity of the area where this incident took place. Everyone knows what happened because the video went viral, but this reporter (not sure why you used quotes in your response), who is no longer in Michigan, is supposed to go to the police station and file a formal complaint? Give me a break...

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by Joel Goodson

Did you read the article? The money quote comes from the Michigan State Police spokesperson (and not the liberal blog staffer): “If somebody broke into your house, wouldn’t you immediately report it to the police? If someone assaulted you or your family member wouldn’t you report it immediately to the police?” Adamczyk said. “Well, why wouldn’t you, unless there’s a personal agenda there.”

The "reporter" was assaulted. Why won't he press charges? Why hasn't the unedited tape been released? I'm going w/Occam's Razor: the "reporter" (and his backers) have an agenda. Similar to O'Keefe. Wait, maybe the spokesperson is a hard-core lefty (can't attack the message, attack the messenger).

FWIW, I abhor violence & threats of violence and support prosecution of all involved in those activities.

Lots of people choose not to pursue charges against people for one reason or the other. The spokesperson even said that. I have been in an altercation as a college student (peripherally) and didn't involve the police. Who wants the headache of dealing with the legal system over something trivial. Many rape victims choose not to prosecute. Some beaten wives don't bring charges. There are myriad reasons not to prosecute. None of them suggest the behavior didn't occur or mitigate the guilt of the offenders.

Of course the guy has an agenda. I don't think he pretends to be an unbiased witness of events. He expected violent behavior from union thugs, he was able to document it.

O'Keefe has released all of his videos unedited so that is a canard. Further, he is not unbiased but that in no way minimizes the ridiculous behavior he has documented with his hidden videos. Are you suggesting that the pedophilia the ACORN backers were willing to facilitate was ok? Or that the fact that the guy that uncovered it was a conservative in some way mitigates the dispicable nature of the people he filmed?

[Joel Goodson]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

And you're missing the whole point. There were hundreds of police on site at this protest rally, and likely in the very vicinity of the area where this incident took place. Everyone knows what happened because the video went viral, but this reporter (not sure why you used quotes in your response), who is no longer in Michigan, is supposed to go to the police station and file a formal complaint? Give me a break...

I don't know, maybe he could've called the police (as crime victims oft do). Or he could've flagged down one of the hundreds of officers on site. Or he could've gone to the station. Doesn't seem like a big obstacle, especially for a crime victim.

BTW, the video everyone has seen is edited. Aren't you the least bit curious what's been cut?

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Joel Goodson

BTW, the video everyone has seen is edited. Aren't you the least bit curious what's been cut?

Every video you see on the nightly news is edited as well. Do you have conspiracy theories about those too?

[Joel Goodson]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Every video you see on the nightly news is edited as well. Do you have conspiracy theories about those too?

Not a conspiracy theorist. When a propaganda mill spews an edited version of a criminal attack, it'd be nice to see the raw footage. Unfortunately, that's not the way things work with some (far too many) outfits.

If you can't see the difference between a typical nightly news story and this story, that's a shame.

[Ransom Stoddard]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

Every video you see on the nightly news is edited as well. Do you have conspiracy theories about those too?

I checked out the reporter's website--and I almost put quotes around it, because the guy refers to himself as a comedian first, and a Fox "contributor" (not reporter) second. Whether he's on the left, right, or middle, my guess is that he was there to get provocative footage and may have taken some steps to ensure he got that footage, a la Michael Moore.

[Joel Goodson]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

Lots of people choose not to pursue charges against people for one reason or the other. The spokesperson even said that. I have been in an altercation as a college student (peripherally) and didn't involve the police. Who wants the headache of dealing with the legal system over something trivial. Many rape victims choose not to prosecute. Some beaten wives don't bring charges. There are myriad reasons not to prosecute. None of them suggest the behavior didn't occur or mitigate the guilt of the offenders.

Sure, there are numerous reasons victims don't press charges. Most are innocuous. A few, not so much.

Getting past charges/no charges, wouldn't it be enlightening to see the raw footage? Why hasn't it been released? If the raw footage supports the meme set forth by the edited version, why not release it?

The "reporter" was working for a propaganda mill, of course anti Faux News hoi polloi is going to question it. It should be questioned.

Just release the raw footage and be done with it. On to the next Benghazi.

[KBLEE]

Originally Posted by Joel Goodson

The "reporter" was working for a propaganda mill, of course anti Faux News hoi polloi is going to question it. It should be questioned.

Just release the raw footage and be done with it. On to the next Benghazi.

I'm sure you'll find a reason not to believe this as well.

I asked Crowder why that initial assault was edited, he responded:

The camera pans away because the camera was jostled, the camera man was shoved around too, a bunch of people were being shoved as the protesters tried to tear down the tent. A tent which wasn’t their property. They were tearing down a tent with women and children in it, and the man who was coming at me I think tripped over the tent peg, fell towards me, and that’s when I said ‘You assaulted me.’ Right after that he sucker punched me. My guess is that he was on his way down, he grabbed me, and started shoving me.”

[Joel Goodson]

Originally Posted by KBLEE

I'm sure you'll find a reason not to believe this as well.

Well, there it is, then. Take a Faux News' contributor's words at face value...lol

All the guy needs to do is release his raw footage. But, no. WTF? If I see it, I'll believe it. Not holding my breath.

Context is paramount. We have none. Was the contributor assaulted? Probably (I'm not a prosecutor or an attorney). Did the contributor provoke the assault? Who the hell knows? Was this yet another incident ginned up by Faux to fire up its base? Just release the friggin' tape. EOS

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by Joel Goodson

Sure, there are numerous reasons victims don't press charges. Most are innocuous. A few, not so much.

Getting past charges/no charges, wouldn't it be enlightening to see the raw footage? Why hasn't it been released? If the raw footage supports the meme set forth by the edited version, why not release it?

The "reporter" was working for a propaganda mill, of course anti Faux News hoi polloi is going to question it. It should be questioned.

Just release the raw footage and be done with it. On to the next Benghazi.

I'd be fine if he released the raw footage. I don't know what it would show but as KBLEE said, all video is edited. I don't trust anything I see on the news as I think they are all propaganda mills. It sounds like you trust them generally but I can assure you that large swaths of America see Fox as more reliable than CBS or NBC. Should they be forced to show raw footage of everything they air?

From my perspective the guy got punched at a union rally. The why's and wherefore's of that assault are far less interesting to me than the fact that the crowd surged and tore down a tent of a press agency. Shouldn't that be the story, not this dude's chipped tooth?

And as for Benghazi, are you implying that there was not gross incompetence and a cover-up there? That somehow that story was 'manufactured'?

[DaytonIllini]

Originally Posted by Joel Goodson

Well, there it is, then. Take a Faux News' contributor's words at face value...lol

All the guy needs to do is release his raw footage. But, no. WTF? If I see it, I'll believe it. Not holding my breath.

Context is paramount. We have none. Was the contributor assaulted? Probably (I'm not a prosecutor or an attorney). Did the contributor provoke the assault? Who the hell knows? Was this yet another incident ginned up by Faux to fire up its base? Just release the friggin' tape. EOS

I think your inherent bias is showing.

[Joel Goodson]

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

I think your inherent bias is showing.

Of course. No more pissing today.