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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:04 PM   #51
AHSIllini32
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Originally Posted by ncoillini View Post
If there is not any expectations of winning a NC, then why would any recruits want to come and play at Illinois? Kids, fans and alumni want to win B1G and win a NC, plain and simple.
The Illini need to find their sugar daddy like Oregon did. Expectations should be set high.
Apparently you missed the part where I said every team and program wants to win the national championship.

This isn't that hard guys...I mean honestly.

Let me ask you this: Did Oregon go from mediocre/bad right to challenging for national championships?? Nope. They built a program. That's what Illinois needs to do. Not hire a coach or an AD who comes in and says we want to start challenging for national championships immediately or everyone will be fired. It. Does. Not. Work. That. Way.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:28 PM   #52
The Galloping Ghost 77
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He meddled a lot last year. See my reasons above.

This is a pointless back and forth. I've spelled it out above.
You know you've beaten quhawks when he just decides to quit and say that everything is pointless:laugh:
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:34 PM   #53
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You know you've beaten quhawks when he just decides to quit and say that everything is pointless:laugh:
Good one
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:36 PM   #54
The Galloping Ghost 77
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Originally Posted by AHSIllini32 View Post
Apparently you missed the part where I said every team and program wants to win the national championship.

This isn't that hard guys...I mean honestly.

Let me ask you this: Did Oregon go from mediocre/bad right to challenging for national championships?? Nope. They built a program. That's what Illinois needs to do. Not hire a coach or an AD who comes in and says we want to start challenging for national championships immediately or everyone will be fired. It. Does. Not. Work. That. Way.
Oregon gets away with stuff cause they have tons of playmakers. Tosses and screens and slants that bust for 30. I will say though, they do have a very good OL .
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:38 PM   #55
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Oregon gets away with stuff cause they have tons of playmakers. Tosses and screens and slants that bust for 30. I will say though, they do have a very good OL .
Which goes back to my overall point...get players, coach them up, win games, recruit better players, coach them up, win more games, get top-flight cream of the crop players, coach them up, challenge for a national title.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:48 PM   #56
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Oregon gets away with stuff cause they have tons of playmakers. Tosses and screens and slants that bust for 30. I will say though, they do have a very good OL .
The Oregon Offense starts with the OL. Chip Kelly used to be an OL coach.

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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:52 PM   #57
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For next season I want to see the team come together and compete for four quarters. We are still years away from having a competitive team.

We probably just need to be patient and allow Beckman and staff to accumulate recruits, balance out the classes and build some depth.

I personally would have preferred a pro style offense like they run at Purdue and MSU. It allows you the opportunity to sell offensive players the opportunity to work toward playing on Sundays. But obviously I wasn't consulted.

This Hermosillo kid could turn into a really nice slot guy that can become a Welker/Amendola type security blanket for the QB
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 04:56 PM   #58
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If there is not any expectations of winning a NC, then why would any recruits want to come and play at Illinois? Kids, fans and alumni want to win B1G and win a NC, plain and simple.
The Illini need to find their sugar daddy like Oregon did. Expectations should be set high.
You have to have a winning season before you can win the b1g. You can't win a national championship without first winning the b1g. One step at a time.

The irony is that Beckman was ridiculed for setting an expectation of winning the b1g.

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Old Jan 12, 2013, 05:05 PM   #59
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You have to have a winning season before you can win the b1g. You can't win a national championship without first winning the b1g. One step at a time.

The irony is that Beckman was ridiculed for setting an expectation of winning the b1g.
Thank you.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 05:39 PM   #60
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The Oregon Offense starts with the OL. Chip Kelly used to be an OL coach.
Other than Kyle Long Oregon doesn't have an OL ranked in the top 15 at T,OG or C in the 2013 NFL draft....Long is rated the 13th best OT..no better than a 3rd to 5th round pick...Pocic is ranked the 9th best C and projected to go in the 4 th or 5th round....does Oregon have some amazing young OL not eligible for the draft?...otherwise, our awful OL produced just as many top NFL prospects as the amazing Chipper Kelly did...at least according to walterfootball.com which I find to be pretty comprehensive
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 05:53 PM   #61
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Other than Kyle Long Oregon doesn't have an OL ranked in the top 15 at T,OG or C in the 2013 NFL draft....Long is rated the 13th best OT..no better than a 3rd to 5th round pick...Pocic is ranked the 9th best C and projected to go in the 4 th or 5th round....does Oregon have some amazing young OL not eligible for the draft?...otherwise, our awful OL produced just as many top NFL prospects as the amazing Chipper Kelly did...at least according to walterfootball.com which I find to be pretty comprehensive
...and Kyle Long has some pretty good genetics given he's Howie Longs kid
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 07:04 PM   #62
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Other than Kyle Long Oregon doesn't have an OL ranked in the top 15 at T,OG or C in the 2013 NFL draft....Long is rated the 13th best OT..no better than a 3rd to 5th round pick...Pocic is ranked the 9th best C and projected to go in the 4 th or 5th round....does Oregon have some amazing young OL not eligible for the draft?...otherwise, our awful OL produced just as many top NFL prospects as the amazing Chipper Kelly did...at least according to walterfootball.com which I find to be pretty comprehensive
Oregon's starting OL this year consisted of three 4*'s and two 3*'s who had a 5.7 Rivals Ranking (5.8 is the start of the four star class).

They were also almost all redshirted.

It shouldn't be that hard to see why their OL was successful.

Also, your comparison of Long to Pocic is irrelevant because they play completely different positions. It's also irrelevant because Long was a backup.

Finally, according to CBSsports.com Long is the 6th best T prospect and the 42nd best overall.

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Old Jan 12, 2013, 07:34 PM   #63
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Oregon's starting OL this year consisted of three 4*'s and two 3*'s who had a 5.7 Rivals Ranking (5.8 is the start of the four star class).

They were also almost all redshirted.

It shouldn't be that hard to see why their OL was successful.

Also, your comparison of Long to Pocic is irrelevant because they play completely different positions. It's also irrelevant because Long was a backup.

Finally, according to CBSsports.com Long is the 6th best T prospect and the 42nd best overall.
So you answered my question....they must have some very fine young lineman ineligible for the draft....Chip should coach them up to be 1st round picks since he's such a terrific developer of OL talent..I will stay tuned.....

Most NFl scouts don't consider comparing OL of different positions irrelevant....there is an awful lot of shifting of positions across the OL in the pros .....most scouting reports project OL at more than one position on the OL anyway...ever heard of Roberto Garza?...Guard who now plays Center for the Bears.....jeez

..and the fact Long was a backup means what?....he had no film on him?....he's not been seen by any scouts?...he's not playing in any post season all star bowls?...he's not going to the NFL combine?....aren't you the guy who said it doesn't matter what offense you run because the NFL will find you if your good enough to play?

Anyhow, if he's only a backup how was CBS Sports able to rank him so high?
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 07:37 PM   #64
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So you answered my question....they must have some very fine young lineman ineligible for the draft....Chip should coach them up to be 1st round picks since he's such a terrific developer of OL talent..I will stay tuned.....

Most NFl scouts don't consider comparing OL of different positions irrelevant....there is an awful lot of shifting of positions across the OL in the pros .....most scouting reports project OL at more than one position on the OL anyway...ever heard of Roberto Garza?...Guard who now plays Center for the Bears.....jeez

..and the fact Long was a backup means what?....he had no film on him?....he's not been seen by any scouts?...he's not playing in any post season all star bowls?...he's not going to the NFL combine?....aren't you the guy who said it doesn't matter what offense you run because the NFL will find you if your good enough to play?

Anyhow, if he's only a backup how was CBS Sports able to rank him so high?
A coach "coaching up" a player doesn't mean they will become a first round pick. It means he coaches them how to run his system to perfection. Chip Kelly has done that masterfully at Oregon.

And do lineman switch positions? Sure. But there's also a reason they are drafted for their position.

I don't even understand what point you are trying to make at this point.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 07:51 PM   #65
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A coach "coaching up" a player doesn't mean they will become a first round pick. It means he coaches them how to run his system to perfection. Chip Kelly has done that masterfully at Oregon.

And do lineman switch positions? Sure. But there's also a reason they are drafted for their position.

I don't even understand what point you are trying to make at this point.
You said comparing OL of different positions is irrelevant..it's not...certainly not to the NFL....

I agree Chip coaches his spread masterfully....being a great OL in that system doesn't mean you are moving up to the NFL......the spread has the same problem in the NFL the option has...the defensive players are too fast and too skilled for that gimmicky crap....think it might be why Chip is staying at Oregon and not moving up even though he's facing some sanctions
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 07:52 PM   #66
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We can pick this up later...out to dinner with the Mrs..enjoyed our talk my illini brother!
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 08:40 PM   #67
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You said comparing OL of different positions is irrelevant..it's not...certainly not to the NFL....

I agree Chip coaches his spread masterfully....being a great OL in that system doesn't mean you are moving up to the NFL......the spread has the same problem in the NFL the option has...the defensive players are too fast and too skilled for that gimmicky crap....think it might be why Chip is staying at Oregon and not moving up even though he's facing some sanctions
You can't use pre-draft rankings across different positions.

Not to mention I flat out showed you a pre-draft ranking that has Long well ahead of Pocic. I don't know where you got your rankings from.

And again, I don't care about players getting to the NFL. I care about having a successful football program. Are the two linked? Possibly. But lately we've had a ton of success getting guys to the NFL and not having a ton of success winning games.

If going to the NFL is what high school kids want then why would they continue to flock to Oregon to play in a system that won't get them there according to you?
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 09:22 PM   #68
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If going to the NFL is what high school kids want then why would they continue to flock to Oregon to play in a system that won't get them there according to you?
Don't expect reason when someone is just sharing their anger. He is upset the Luke Butkus is gone. End of story.

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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:58 AM   #69
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You can't use pre-draft rankings across different positions.

Not to mention I flat out showed you a pre-draft ranking that has Long well ahead of Pocic. I don't know where you got your rankings from.

And again, I don't care about players getting to the NFL. I care about having a successful football program. Are the two linked? Possibly. But lately we've had a ton of success getting guys to the NFL and not having a ton of success winning games.

If going to the NFL is what high school kids want then why would they continue to flock to Oregon to play in a system that won't get them there according to you?
Never said that going to Oregon won't get you to the NFL...just said we will have as many OL drafted as they will in the first 3 to 5 rounds in the 2013 draft....and the fact you think there is only a " possible" link between having NFL level players on your college roster and BCS success pretty much says it all.....surround a couple of NFL level players with highly ranked preps and solid coaching and you have...Alabama..and every other school in the top ten
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:59 AM   #70
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Never said that going to Oregon won't get you to the NFL...just said we will have as many OL drafted as they will in the first 3 to 5 rounds in the 2013 draft....and the fact you think there is only a " possible" link between having NFL level players on your college roster and BCS success pretty much says it all.....surround a couple of NFL level players with highly ranked preps and solid coaching and you have...Alabama..and every other school in the top ten
You flat out said that kids won't want to play in a spread system because it doesn't get kids to the NFL.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:56 AM   #71
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You flat out said that kids won't want to play in a spread system because it doesn't get kids to the NFL.
Sorry you reached that conclusion.....to clarify,I think a spread offense is gimmicky and doesn't work at the NFl level..believe that most 4 and 5 star high school players want to attend programs that help them get to the NFL...and that players (especially OL)who come out of programs that dont play the spread are drafted higher and perform better in the NFL....they have spent a couple of years learning the blocking schemes and techniques that their NFL teams utilize...nothing too radical here AHS......generally, programs who recruit at an elite level don't need to run a spread to level the field so they don't and as I said before I would rather be Wisconsin and watch that style of football than watch we we are currently compelled to play....

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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:09 PM   #72
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Don't expect reason when someone is just sharing their anger. He is upset the Luke Butkus is gone. End of story.
Not happy Butkus left. Neither are Beckman or Thomas. But you asked Santa Claus to get rid of Butkus and that makes you eminently reasonable. Is it difficult to drive a clown car?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:20 PM   #73
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Teams don't run the spread in the NFL? Which NFL have you been watching?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:30 PM   #74
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Not happy Butkus left. Neither are Beckman or Thomas. But you asked Santa Claus to get rid of Butkus and that makes you eminently reasonable. Is it difficult to drive a clown car?
Beckman and Thomas aren't losing sleep over this. Especially since they had their new guy lined up the next day. And if it is who we think it is then its a major upgrade.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 12:45 PM   #75
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If there is not any expectations of winning a NC, then why would any recruits want to come and play at Illinois? Kids, fans and alumni want to win B1G and win a NC, plain and simple.
The Illini need to find their sugar daddy like Oregon did. Expectations should be set high.
Nothing wrong with winniing the B1G and going to a new year's day bowl. IMO if you set yourself up for winning a NC, you can get mighty disappointed early in the season.
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