Go Back   Fighting Illini Forums > Sports > Fighting Illini Basketball

Is this the deepest, greatest Big Ten ever?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:47 PM   #1
trevdv
trevdv's Avatar
Location: Champaign
Posts: 3,222
It ceases to amaze me how many upsets, underdog wins, comebacks, and fantastic games we've had in the B1G so far this conference season, and it got me thinking...is this the deepest and/or greatest Big Ten basketball season ever? The fact that 7 out of 12 teams have been ranked, and we've got TEN schools that could potentially make the tournament...that's ridiculous. Below is an unofficial list of just SOME of the upsets/unexpected wins/comebacks so far in the conference season:

- Purdue over #11 Illinois
- Illinois over #8 Ohio State
- Wisconsin over #12 Illinois
- Ohio State over #2 Michigan
- Wisconsin over #2 Indiana
- Northwestern over #23 Illinois
- Michigan State over #11 Ohio State
- Iowa over Wisconsin
- Michigan State over Wisconsin
- Northwestern over #12 Minnesota

You're not gonna get that kind of list all season usually! I literally feel like every. single. team (save Nebraska or Penn State) could win on any. given. night. Wow. Thoughts? Opinions?


__________________
That's a winner!
trevdv is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:50 PM   #2
PeoriaIllini1
PeoriaIllini1's Avatar
Location: Peoria
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevdv View Post
It ceases to amaze me how many upsets, underdog wins, comebacks, and fantastic games we've had in the B1G so far this conference season, and it got me thinking...is this the deepest and/or greatest Big Ten basketball season ever? The fact that 7 out of 12 teams have been ranked, and we've got TEN schools that could potentially make the tournament...that's ridiculous. Below is an unofficial list of just SOME of the upsets/unexpected wins/comebacks so far in the conference season:

- Purdue over #11 Illinois
- Illinois over #8 Ohio State
- Wisconsin over #12 Illinois
- Ohio State over #2 Michigan
- Wisconsin over #2 Indiana
- Northwestern over #23 Illinois
- Michigan State over #11 Ohio State
- Iowa over Wisconsin
- Michigan State over Wisconsin
- Northwestern over #12 Minnesota

You're not gonna get that kind of list all season usually! I literally feel like every. single. team (save Nebraska or Penn State) could win on any. given. night. Wow. Thoughts? Opinions?


No, College hoops is not as good as it used to be. Elite players skip or play one year very often. That did not used to be the case. If it happened at all it was rare. I think probably 1989 not really close. So many more NBA first and second rounders then vs now. A good example is compare this years #2 Michigan team to the one from the 80's not close. you were not talking about how competitive it is. You asked when was it Best. It was best and had better teams in the late 80's

Last edited by PeoriaIllini1; Jan 24, 2013 at 05:55 PM.
PeoriaIllini1 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:57 PM   #3
Bailey
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,083
Sounds like a question that can't even begin to be answered on January 24th.
Bailey is online now Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:02 PM   #4
trevdv
trevdv's Avatar
Location: Champaign
Posts: 3,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeoriaIllini1 View Post
You asked when was it Best. It was best and had better teamsin the late 80's
But see this makes the Big Ten in 2013 even better in my opinion...LESS teams are great, but the 9th best team can still beat the 2nd best team in the country on any given night. When can you remember a time in the Big Ten when 10-8, 9th place Purdue has a 50/50 chance at winning at #2 Michigan?? Never! When can you remember 8th place Northwestern having a good chance at winning at #12 Illinois? Never! This is the deepest Big Ten I've ever seen BECAUSE there aren't as many "fantastic teams," and yet every single team still has a decent chance to win every single night.

__________________
That's a winner!
trevdv is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:13 PM   #5
PeoriaIllini1
PeoriaIllini1's Avatar
Location: Peoria
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevdv View Post
But see this makes the Big Ten in 2013 even better in my opinion...LESS teams are great, but the 9th best team can still beat the 2nd best team in the country on any given night. When can you remember a time in the Big Ten when 10-8, 9th place Purdue has a 50/50 chance at winning at #2 Michigan?? Never! When can you remember 8th place Northwestern having a good chance at winning at #12 Illinois? Never! This is the deepest Big Ten I've ever seen BECAUSE there aren't as many "fantastic teams," and yet every single team still has a decent chance to win every single night.
There are how many in the top 25? College hoops is not as good. I am not as amazed by elite players at the hall like i used to be. I doubt i see a player like Shaq or Magic play there more than one season if at all. Players like Kobe, LeBron, D Howard, and other top players skip college. Magic, Sam Bowie, Chris Weber, Isiah, and so many others would have too if they were born in the same era. I saw all play college hoops at the hall. ( YES i was one of less than 5000 to see Kentucky in the blizzard game. ) I love going to Big Ten games and have done for the past 35 plus years but it is not the same. To me players make a conference great. Elite players on every team. There were more in 89.

Last edited by PeoriaIllini1; Jan 24, 2013 at 06:22 PM.
PeoriaIllini1 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:14 PM   #6
JimmyChitwood
JimmyChitwood's Avatar
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 745
Deepest ever? Perhaps..Hmmm, I remember 9th place Illinois beating #5 Ohio State just last year though lol. The teams at the top are not as good, so there is more parity or whatever in the league. You can say that the bottom teams have a shot every night, but every other team in the country has a shot to beat any B1G team too because of this. 89 was probably the strongest B1G I've ever seen just because of the top tier teams being ridiculously good . So I dont really know. To many variables I guess.
JimmyChitwood is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:36 PM   #7
Groundhogday
Groundhogday's Avatar
Posts: 24,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeoriaIllini1 View Post
No, College hoops is not as good as it used to be. Elite players skip or play one year very often. That did not used to be the case. If it happened at all it was rare. I think probably 1989 not really close. So many more NBA first and second rounders then vs now. A good example is compare this years #2 Michigan team to the one from the 80's not close. you were not talking about how competitive it is. You asked when was it Best. It was best and had better teams in the late 80's
Don't forget the mid-to-late 70's when IU and Michigan played in the championship game, Magic led MSU to a championship, and Lute Olson revived Iowa basketball. The Big Ten has historically been a very tough league, and this year is perhaps a return to our previous standing.

__________________
ONLY ORANGE!
Groundhogday is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:04 PM   #8
WinOrElse
Posts: 635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
Don't forget the mid-to-late 70's when IU and Michigan played in the championship game, Magic led MSU to a championship, and Lute Olson revived Iowa basketball. The Big Ten has historically been a very tough league, and this year is perhaps a return to our previous standing.
Yes, and MSU's championship in 1979 was followed up by Iowa and Pudue both reaching the Final Four in 1980 and a championship for Indiana in 1981.
WinOrElse is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:06 PM   #9
TCTORNADO
Posts: 4,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhogday View Post
Don't forget the mid-to-late 70's when IU and Michigan played in the championship game, Magic led MSU to a championship, and Lute Olson revived Iowa basketball. The Big Ten has historically been a very tough league, and this year is perhaps a return to our previous standing.
Don't forget that those years were some of the worst years ever for NW, WI, MN (due to OSU fight sanctions), OSU, and even Illinois. Thread says deepest and not just top 1, 2, 3, or 4 teams.
Granted the league didn't have UNL and PSU back then, so that would help that era as deepest, but it's hard to define w/o any criteria.
TCTORNADO is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:20 PM   #10
Illini70math
Posts: 2,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeoriaIllini1 View Post
There are how many in the top 25? College hoops is not as good. I am not as amazed by elite players at the hall like i used to be. I doubt i see a player like Shaq or Magic play there more than one season if at all. Players like Kobe, LeBron, D Howard, and other top players skip college. Magic, Sam Bowie, Chris Weber, Isiah, and so many others would have too if they were born in the same era. I saw all play college hoops at the hall. ( YES i was one of less than 5000 to see Kentucky in the blizzard game. ) I love going to Big Ten games and have done for the past 35 plus years but it is not the same. To me players make a conference great. Elite players on every team. There were more in 89.
Is this a trick question?



FWIW, yes, this is the deepest B1G conference I can remember in over forty years. There are at least 10 teams that can beat anyone in a given game without being a huge upset. That is very unusual.

Are the top teams as good as the top teams have been in other seasons? No, I don't think so. But the quality up and down the league is extraordinary imo.
Illini70math is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:23 PM   #11
PeoriaIllini1
PeoriaIllini1's Avatar
Location: Peoria
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini70math View Post
Is this a trick question?



FWIW, yes, this is the deepest B1G conference I can remember in over forty years. There are at least 10 teams that can beat anyone in a given game without being a huge upset. That is very unusual.

Are the top teams as good as the top teams have been in other seasons? No, I don't think so. But the quality up and down the league is extraordinary imo.
That is my point. Top teams now are not as good as the top teams then. I dont think it is even close. College hoops overall is not as good with top tier players not playing at all or with much more of a one and done situation.

To me as far as the Illini teams are concerned the one that lost at Rupp to Kentucky in the Elite 8 in a game decided at the final minute was probably as good as any as a team. I would love to have seen the 2005, 1989, and 1985 teams play. i am not sure one would have much of an advantage over the other. I would say 89 may have been the best but the 85 team i think it was gets underrated and if not forgotten all the time because of one of the biggest hose jobs in NCAA tournament history. IMO.

Last edited by PeoriaIllini1; Jan 24, 2013 at 07:29 PM.
PeoriaIllini1 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:43 PM   #12
gibb52
Posts: 1,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeoriaIllini1 View Post
That is my point. Top teams now are not as good as the top teams then. I dont think it is even close. College hoops overall is not as good with top tier players not playing at all or with much more of a one and done situation.

To me as far as the Illini teams are concerned the one that lost at Rupp to Kentucky in the Elite 8 in a game decided at the final minute was probably as good as any as a team. I would love to have seen the 2005, 1989, and 1985 teams play. i am not sure one would have much of an advantage over the other. I would say 89 may have been the best but the 85 team i think it was gets underrated and if not forgotten all the time because of one of the biggest hose jobs in NCAA tournament history. IMO.
I believe that was 1984 Peoria. Lost by one at Rupp on the bogus Bruce Douglas travel call while he was being dismembered IIRC.
gibb52 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 07:43 PM   #13
TCTORNADO
Posts: 4,304
Without a doubt one of the greatest coaches of all time gets remarried!!

http://www.lostlettermen.com/gene-ke...hed-in-hawaii/

Notice the best man!!

Last edited by TCTORNADO; Jan 24, 2013 at 07:47 PM.
TCTORNADO is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 09:09 PM   #14
bleedsorangenblue
bleedsorangenblue's Avatar
Location: C-U
Posts: 1,306
I do agree that the B1G is as deep and competitive as it has ever been. The B1G seems to be a reflection of what is happening to college ball in general with a trend toward more parity. While there seems to be plenty of good players, they get more spread around. With the advent of increased team development and increased media coverage, good players can go to places like Gonzaga, Butler, and VCU and still have a chance at making the big time. While it has always been possible, it was not always as easy to get recognized as it is today.

More quality schools competing for the best players will tend to even out the competition and create more parity. I actually think this is good for college basketball. Having a tournament where a lot of teams have a chance to take it all is a lot more exciting than giving the title to KY, Duke, KS, or NC every year.
bleedsorangenblue is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:42 PM   #15
BlockI
Banned
Location: Shelbyville
Posts: 897
I agree as well it's the best it has been since the mid to late 80's IMO. It's probably a little deeper than then but the top talent is not as good adding more parity to the conference.

I notice recently ESPN has been trying to hype up the Pac 12 more and teams like Miami, VCU, and Creighton are staying in the top 25 over teams like Wisconsin. I hope the committee and voters see the B1G at the top and reward teams on selection Sunday regardless of the amount of losses due to the strength of schedule and very tough road environments.

I can see it coming down to the bubble against UK and some B1G team will get left out for PR (roll eyes). Most of the top teams around the nation have much weaker teams than they have had in the last 10 years.

UNC
Texas
UCLA
UCONN
Baylor
UK
Villanova
Pitt


All are rebuilding or are much less talented than a year ago. The B1G should get the credit it deserves come March.
BlockI is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:33 AM   #16
Archie
Banned
Posts: 187
Deepest & greatest? No

The late 80's to mid 90's was a solid period for the Big 10.

Will three Big 10 teams get to the Elite 8 this year, like Illinois, Michigan St. and Wisconsin did in 05'?
Archie is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:25 AM   #17
combes
Posts: 3,587
1981 was better. So was 1989. There have been other better years, too.
combes is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:37 AM   #18
IntenselyOrange
Posts: 7,264
Certainly there was more elite talent in the conference in the 80s, but I think categorically listing that time as "better" misses the point. The reason that there was more talent was, as pointed out, because players didn't leave after one year. But the game has changed. Talent and success should be judged relative to the landscape of college basketball.

Even by that measure, I think the top of the conference was better in the 80s. However, the depth of the conference is better now.
IntenselyOrange is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:41 AM   #19
Illini87InClt
Posts: 411
This is definitely a strong, up year for the B1G but there's still not enough data points indicating that this will be the best season ever. This will depend on the remainder of the season and specifically on how strongly the B1G teams perform in the NCAA tournament. If 3-4 teams win out to the Final 4, then this season will rank among the best years.
Illini87InClt is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:34 AM   #20
Botb9
Realist
Botb9's Avatar
Posts: 5,212
It's certainly one of the best in recent memory, but I'm more willing to buy the idea that the Big Ten plays basketball completely different than it does in the non-conference schedule. Look at the shifts we've seen already. Minny dominated mostly everyone before moving to 3-3 in conference. Wisky and MSU looked to be going through down years only to find themselves at the top of the league shortly into the season. Our own guys torched several top teams on the way to the conference season, only to get pummeled unceremoniously a few times by those same supposedly weaker teams.

__________________
Hype is a self-serving beast that feeds on the hopes and dreams of fans.
Botb9 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:40 AM   #21
Leonardite
Leonardite's Avatar
Location: Terre Haute, IN
Posts: 1,143
Hoops needs the same system as baseball, IMO. You can go after high school and take that risk. Or you can choose college, and then you must go at least 3 years.

__________________

So easy.
So easy.
So easy.

"Frank Williams putting on a show passing the rock! Driving, Drawing, and Dishing the rock! The three D's man!" --- The Frank Williams Show
Leonardite is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:40 AM   #22
combes
Posts: 3,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
Certainly there was more elite talent in the conference in the 80s, but I think categorically listing that time as "better" misses the point. The reason that there was more talent was, as pointed out, because players didn't leave after one year. But the game has changed. Talent and success should be judged relative to the landscape of college basketball.

Even by that measure, I think the top of the conference was better in the 80s. However, the depth of the conference is better now.
I disagree. In 88-89, for example, Ohio State and Michigan State tied for next to last in the Big Ten. OSU was 13-3 in the nonconference. MSU was 12-3. The only weak team that year was Northwestern. The league was filled with great players and teams that year.

I would not get too caught up in this year's hype. The conference is good but definitely not the best in my time as a fan. The bottom of the league is pretty darn weak. Penn State and Nebraska. Upsets happened even then when a lower team upset a team in the top of the conference. Illinois lost to Wisconsin that year and Wisconsin was a second division team.
combes is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:56 AM   #23
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Location: People's Republic of Massachusetts
Posts: 8,122
Strictly from a depth standpoint, I thought the 99-00 season was pretty impressive for the Big Ten. We finished in last with a 3-13 record, but a lot of those losses were in close games and we ended up making the title game of the BTT. Looking at some archives of that season, all the Big Ten teams were in the top 85 of the RPI. We played 11 games vs ranked teams in the league that season.
WesterveltVictoryCigar is online now Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:25 PM   #24
troydove
Banned
Posts: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by combes View Post
1981 was better. So was 1989. There have been other better years, too.
+1 Just want to say again that 89 team pounded UM at Michigan and at home. Gill got hurt going into Wisconsin and we had injurys in march. When healthy BEST EVER.... We win that final 4, 9 out of 10 times.
troydove is offline Reply With Quote
Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:51 PM   #25
PeoriaIllini1
PeoriaIllini1's Avatar
Location: Peoria
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibb52 View Post
I believe that was 1984 Peoria. Lost by one at Rupp on the bogus Bruce Douglas travel call while he was being dismembered IIRC.
I think it was the other smaller guard that traveled. The short strong one with the old school afro. Quinton Richardson?

in 84-85 when we had Ken Norman, Erfem, Bruce Douglas, Scott Meents. Altenburger, Anthony Welch and wysinger that was a good team

Last edited by PeoriaIllini1; Jan 25, 2013 at 08:03 PM.
PeoriaIllini1 is offline Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Fighting Illini Basketball | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Forum Jump