Go Back   Fighting Illini Forums > Sports > Fighting Illini Basketball

Who's still happy?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:01 PM   #1
FeelYourPaign
FeelYourPaign's Avatar
Location: Barrington, IL
Posts: 5,057
Not deliriously happy, just generally happy.
I need a count, because I go to the other threads and all I find is ranting and anger and insults and worse.

I'm still happy.
Happy (actually VERY happy) with John Groce. Love the energy, love the faster pace, love the recruiting almosts and believe there are going to be recruiting actuals soon. I think our 2013 class is amazing for the time that he and staff had to reach out to the state of Illinois. Seriously. Amazing.

Happy with the faster pace of play, the tougher style. Tough enough? No, obviously not, but I remember the past few seasons. I don't see those repeating here and I'm grateful. I think we're a little tougher.

Happy that we are on the radar of a number of guys and coaches and programs that were ignoring us before. We have people watching twitter and video and more. Why? Because 4* and 5* recruits are paying attention and think Illinois is in play again. No one has signed from the absolute elite yet, I get that, BUT THEY ARE WATCHING.

Would I like the shots to have kept falling like December? Absolutely, but that was so crazy. Not going to happen. Wanted it, didn't believe it.

I'm big on Pomeroy. For example, after Saturday's game scUM did not drop in his system. They were #3, playing #2 Indiana before the game and they were #3 with IU still #2 after the game. Cares about the ways that you play. Both offense and defense. The stats say two really good teams played each other in a really good game and the home team won. No penalty for that.

So, carry that thought forward. He started us at #54 before we played a game. We did get as high as #25 after beating the 'Zags, but now we are back to #56. hmmm, wonder if we're somewhere in the 50's? Yup, I think so. Pomeroy thinks we should have beaten NW and PU, as do all of us. In which case, we would be in a serious contest for 7th or 8th, just where he would have predicted. John Groce is doing fine. He just got a load of bad clay. I can wait. I wanted the miracle, that is true, but this is ok.

We're on the way back. It doesn't look like it in the W-L column, but we are.

I'm happy. That is not a synonym for delirious. I know the difference. I'm just happy, not the latter. Anyone else?
FeelYourPaign is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:09 PM   #2
Illiniwek06
Illiniwek06's Avatar
Location: N of I-80
Posts: 1,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelYourPaign View Post
Not deliriously happy, just generally happy.
I need a count, because I go to the other threads and all I find is ranting and anger and insults and worse.

I'm still happy.
Happy (actually VERY happy) with John Groce. Love the energy, love the faster pace, love the recruiting almosts and believe there are going to be recruiting actuals soon. I think our 2013 class is amazing for the time that he and staff had to reach out to the state of Illinois. Seriously. Amazing.

Happy with the faster pace of play, the tougher style. Tough enough? No, obviously not, but I remember the past few seasons. I don't see those repeating here and I'm grateful. I think we're a little tougher.

Happy that we are on the radar of a number of guys and coaches and programs that were ignoring us before. We have people watching twitter and video and more. Why? Because 4* and 5* recruits are paying attention and think Illinois is in play again. No one has signed from the absolute elite yet, I get that, BUT THEY ARE WATCHING.

Would I like the shots to have kept falling like December? Absolutely, but that was so crazy. Not going to happen. Wanted it, didn't believe it.

I'm big on Pomeroy. For example, after Saturday's game scUM did not drop in his system. They were #3, playing #2 Indiana before the game and they were #3 with IU still #2 after the game. Cares about the ways that you play. Both offense and defense. The stats say two really good teams played each other in a really good game and the home team won. No penalty for that.

So, carry that thought forward. He started us at #54 before we played a game. We did get as high as #25 after beating the 'Zags, but now we are back to #56. hmmm, wonder if we're somewhere in the 50's? Yup, I think so. Pomeroy thinks we should have beaten NW and PU, as do all of us. In which case, we would be in a serious contest for 7th or 8th, just where he would have predicted. John Groce is doing fine. He just got a load of bad clay. I can wait. I wanted the miracle, that is true, but this is ok.

We're on the way back. It doesn't look like it in the W-L column, but we are.

I'm happy. That is not a synonym for delirious. I know the difference. I'm just happy, not the latter. Anyone else?
Agreed. When Groce first got hired, I still thought this squad would finish in the 8-10 range this year because of, largely, the same personnel. I was excited with the potential of an uptick recruiting-wise. I was excited with the change in attitude/media relations/confidence/etc. While the early success made me readjust my B1G expectations (momentarily), I am still excited going forward.
Illiniwek06 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:10 PM   #3
Wokker
Wokker's Avatar
Location: "The Good Land", WI
Posts: 1,670
Good thread. I'm happy too. Looking forward to the future.

I, like many, have been getting extremely frustrated watching this team over the last month or so.

There have been some comparisons between Weber and Groce over the last week. Their body language, what's been said in the post game presser. I think that's fair, but that the difference is that they were Bruce's recruited players that quit on him. Groce has known the seniors for all of ~eight months, as opposed to 5+ years. Not making excuses for Groce, I think there are things he definitely needs to work on. However, I have the feeling of hope again for the first time in about four years.

He's bringing in an entire lineup of HIS players. We haven't seen his system yet, not even close. We're seeing a hybrid stopgap system that has had one too many holes burst over the last four weeks. But there is hope again, for growth next year and the year after. Hopefully, with an amazing 2015 class, this program will be back to where it should be.

After all, what good is an Illini fan who can't get their hopes hopelessly up??
Wokker is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:15 PM   #4
SummerofGeorge
SummerofGeorge's Avatar
Location: Peoria
Posts: 564
Happy with the JG hire.Happy with the intensity and fire from JG.
Happy with his ability to connect with kids.
Happy with his ferocity in recruiting.
Happy with his first wave of committments.


Disappointed with the current season but still positive overall!
SummerofGeorge is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:16 PM   #5
FinalFour88
FinalFour88's Avatar
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 4,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wokker View Post
Good thread. I'm happy too. Looking forward to the future.

I, like many, have been getting extremely frustrated watching this team over the last month or so.

There have been some comparisons between Weber and Groce over the last week. Their body language, what's been said in the post game presser. I think that's fair, but that the difference is that they were Bruce's recruited players that quit on him. Groce has known the seniors for all of ~eight months, as opposed to 5+ years. Not making excuses for Groce, I think there are things he definitely needs to work on. However, I have the feeling of hope again for the first time in about four years.

He's bringing in an entire lineup of HIS players. We haven't seen his system yet, not even close. We're seeing a hybrid stopgap system that has had one too many holes burst over the last four weeks. But there is hope again, for growth next year and the year after. Hopefully, with an amazing 2015 class, this program will be back to where it should be.

After all, what good is an Illini fan who can't get their hopes hopelessly up??
I don't think Groce and Weber's body language or postgame comments are similar at all. When we were losing under Weber, he was whiny. He would make excuses and feel sorry for himself. With Groce, he's carried himself the same way all season. No excuses, no pity parties. His demeanor hasn't changed. His words have changed recently, but that's good.
FinalFour88 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:20 PM   #6
lstewart53x3
lstewart53x3's Avatar
Location: Chambana
Posts: 1,551
Count me as one of the happy ones : )
lstewart53x3 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:23 PM   #7
trevdv
trevdv's Avatar
Location: Champaign
Posts: 3,251
I'm glad this was brought up. I'm happy.

__________________
That's a winner!
trevdv is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:41 PM   #8
-josh-
Calm, Collected, German.
-josh-'s Avatar
Location: The paign born and raised
Posts: 5,214
I dont need to convince myself of anything, sports aren't the most important thing in my life. I'm happy whether we suck or not. That being said, we suck, and sucking sucks. But it changes nothing.

__________________
http://youtu.be/i37uttMA6Mc?t=31s
Looks like it's the University of Illinois!
-josh- is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 09:51 PM   #9
Wokker
Wokker's Avatar
Location: "The Good Land", WI
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by -josh- View Post
I dont need to convince myself of anything, sports aren't the most important thing in my life. I'm happy whether we suck or not. That being said, we suck, and sucking sucks. But it changes nothing.
Such (or suck) is the life of us Illinois (college and pro) sports fans over the last few years.
Wokker is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:26 PM   #10
BoolahBoolah
BoolahBoolah's Avatar
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,187
I'm not sure "Happy" is the right word to describe my state of mind about Illinois Basketball.

I liked the Groce hire at the time, loved it during the summer, was euphoric about it when we came out blazing, and still am 100% sure he will succeed here.

I'm very happy with the recruiting class. Nunn is the type of kid that Groce will succeed with. Hill has superstar potential. Morgan, in my opinion, is going to be a good one here. I don't know enough about Colbert, but he was fairly well regarded, is bouncy, and tries to dunk everything. I don't think much of Tate as a Big Ten player, but if you're going to reach, at least we reached with the best school in the state.

I'm extremely happy with the type of kids that Groce is recruiting. I'm confident he'll land a big fish sooner than later, but would be shocked if its Alexander or Lyle. I just don't see it at this point in his tenure, unless they're desperate to start as freshmen and Groce has all but promised that. In fact, I hope he does. Every other school does, and it drove me nuts when Weber took a hard line against that. I still get dry heaves when I think of Weber telling Derrick F'ing Rose he'd have to compete for minutes against Chester Frazier.

I'm happy with how Groce handles the media, and how he's positive with the kids on the sideline. I think he could probably be a bit better with the officials, but I won't even notice that when we're winning.

I'm not at all happy with Brandon Paul. I realize he's taking the brunt of the abuse lately, but I think it's pretty well deserved. When you're happy to be the team's best player in the offseason, and when things are going well, it's fair game to get criticism when your play is hurting the team. When your supposed best player, in his 4th year of heavy minutes, is still dribbling the ball off his own feet, taking fallaway 3's and having to be benched to send a message, you aren't going to win a lot of games.

I'm not thrilled with DJ or Tyler, but I'm not as angry at them. DJ clearly cares, but he's just limited in what he can do out there. Tyler just doesn't belong as this level, unfortunately. He seems like a great kid, has earned a degree already, carries himself well, and I wanted him badly to have a big year, but his physical limitations are just too much to overcome. That said, I hope he busts out of this slump. As painful as it is to watch, I can't imagine what it's like to go through personally. At least his GF is smoking hot. Well done, Tyler.

I'm not happy with our 2011 class. I don't see Shaw, Langford or Djimbde ever being meaningful contributors. Henry clearly isn't the player I hoped he'd be. Tracy is the one guy who fights, but he's not a PG, and he's not a SG. He's just out there. Egwu clearly cares to, and I think he'll continue to get better and better throughout his career. Those two have to take a huge step next year if we're going to even be competitive.

I'm not at all happy with the fact that in 2005, we were on top of the basketball world, and 7 years later, we're the 10th best team in the Big Ten. It's mind blowing to me how far we've fallen.

So, overall, I'm not happy. This was a great program to follow for my entire college career, and the couple years after. I got legitimate enjoyment out of watching these kids compete. I haven't had fun watching Illinois Basketball in 5 years, other than our mini stretch of good basketball to start the season. 5 YEARS. I've watched every game the past 2 years, most of them from 7,000 miles away, and end up feeling disgusted every single time.

I know it sounds whiney and entitled, but I honestly feel like we deserve better than this. At what point does this become fun again? And, I don't see next year being real "fun" either.

I wish I was happy with Illini Basketball. In reality, I'm just slowly getting more resigned to the fact that we aren't even going to be as good as we once were, and I need to recalibrate expectations. Bring back the fun.
BoolahBoolah is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:47 PM   #11
Illiniwek06
Illiniwek06's Avatar
Location: N of I-80
Posts: 1,868
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoolahBoolah View Post
I'm not sure "Happy" is the right word to describe my state of mind about Illinois Basketball.

I liked the Groce hire at the time, loved it during the summer, was euphoric about it when we came out blazing, and still am 100% sure he will succeed here.

I'm very happy with the recruiting class. Nunn is the type of kid that Groce will succeed with. Hill has superstar potential. Morgan, in my opinion, is going to be a good one here. I don't know enough about Colbert, but he was fairly well regarded, is bouncy, and tries to dunk everything. I don't think much of Tate as a Big Ten player, but if you're going to reach, at least we reached with the best school in the state.

I'm extremely happy with the type of kids that Groce is recruiting. I'm confident he'll land a big fish sooner than later, but would be shocked if its Alexander or Lyle. I just don't see it at this point in his tenure, unless they're desperate to start as freshmen and Groce has all but promised that. In fact, I hope he does. Every other school does, and it drove me nuts when Weber took a hard line against that. I still get dry heaves when I think of Weber telling Derrick F'ing Rose he'd have to compete for minutes against Chester Frazier.

I'm happy with how Groce handles the media, and how he's positive with the kids on the sideline. I think he could probably be a bit better with the officials, but I won't even notice that when we're winning.

I'm not at all happy with Brandon Paul. I realize he's taking the brunt of the abuse lately, but I think it's pretty well deserved. When you're happy to be the team's best player in the offseason, and when things are going well, it's fair game to get criticism when your play is hurting the team. When your supposed best player, in his 4th year of heavy minutes, is still dribbling the ball off his own feet, taking fallaway 3's and having to be benched to send a message, you aren't going to win a lot of games.

I'm not thrilled with DJ or Tyler, but I'm not as angry at them. DJ clearly cares, but he's just limited in what he can do out there. Tyler just doesn't belong as this level, unfortunately. He seems like a great kid, has earned a degree already, carries himself well, and I wanted him badly to have a big year, but his physical limitations are just too much to overcome. That said, I hope he busts out of this slump. As painful as it is to watch, I can't imagine what it's like to go through personally. At least his GF is smoking hot. Well done, Tyler.

I'm not happy with our 2011 class. I don't see Shaw, Langford or Djimbde ever being meaningful contributors. Henry clearly isn't the player I hoped he'd be. Tracy is the one guy who fights, but he's not a PG, and he's not a SG. He's just out there. Egwu clearly cares to, and I think he'll continue to get better and better throughout his career. Those two have to take a huge step next year if we're going to even be competitive.

I'm not at all happy with the fact that in 2005, we were on top of the basketball world, and 7 years later, we're the 10th best team in the Big Ten. It's mind blowing to me how far we've fallen.

So, overall, I'm not happy. This was a great program to follow for my entire college career, and the couple years after. I got legitimate enjoyment out of watching these kids compete. I haven't had fun watching Illinois Basketball in 5 years, other than our mini stretch of good basketball to start the season. 5 YEARS. I've watched every game the past 2 years, most of them from 7,000 miles away, and end up feeling disgusted every single time.

I know it sounds whiney and entitled, but I honestly feel like we deserve better than this. At what point does this become fun again? And, I don't see next year being real "fun" either.

I wish I was happy with Illini Basketball. In reality, I'm just slowly getting more resigned to the fact that we aren't even going to be as good as we once were, and I need to recalibrate expectations. Bring back the fun.
Good points. I agree with this. But with the spiral downward post-Dee/Augie, I'm just happy with the fact that we decided to head in a new direction heading into this year, and I'm happy with Groce. I'm pleased with what he was able to cobble together for 2013, given the constraints associated with starting so late in the recruiting game for the Illini.

I recognize that if you don't get a recruit, it doesn't matter whether you finish 2nd or 5th, but I'm impressed with the fact that Groce got onto Ennis/XRM top 3 and forced DJack into a decision, with ND being in his backyard and having recruited him for faaaaar longer than UI.

Long story short, I agree that the last few years have been brutal, but I'm optimistic looking forward/more long-term that Groce will right the ship.
Illiniwek06 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:59 PM   #12
jcgoldie
jcgoldie's Avatar
Location: Alton, IL
Posts: 751
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoolahBoolah View Post
I'm not at all happy with Brandon Paul. I realize he's taking the brunt of the abuse lately, but I think it's pretty well deserved. When you're happy to be the team's best player in the offseason, and when things are going well, it's fair game to get criticism when your play is hurting the team. When your supposed best player, in his 4th year of heavy minutes, is still dribbling the ball off his own feet, taking fallaway 3's and having to be benched to send a message, you aren't going to win a lot of games.
Im sure this post will get roasted because I know everyone is so eager to believe John Groce walks on water. Well Im still glad with the hire. I think he can and will do very good things here in time. That said I think he deserves some of the responsibility for the way this team is performing. I realize he inherited a very flawed team, but when they get behind they look desperate very early. They start throwing up desperation 3s with alot of time on the clock early in the game and Groce seems powerless to calm them down on either end of the floor. I also think he's mishandled Paul. I realize Paul is in a bad place but its partly the coaches job to get the best out of his best players whether they are his guys or not. Groce started sitting him in key stretches a couple of games ago and it seems to only have weakened his confidence even more and had exactly the opposite effect of what was needed. Weber rightfully took alot of the blame when this team melted down last year and I believe Groce deserves at least some of the blame now because he is not getting the best out of the team. Before anyone accuses me of being some sort of Weber apologist, Im not, he needed to go and Im very glad hes gone and that JG is our coach. But I think hes taking his lumps right now and hopefully hes learning some things with this team.
jcgoldie is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:00 PM   #13
mattcoldagelli
mattcoldagelli's Avatar
Location: Evanston, IL
Posts: 2,873
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoolahBoolah View Post
I'm not sure "Happy" is the right word to describe my state of mind about Illinois Basketball.

I liked the Groce hire at the time, loved it during the summer, was euphoric about it when we came out blazing, and still am 100% sure he will succeed here.

I'm very happy with the recruiting class. Nunn is the type of kid that Groce will succeed with. Hill has superstar potential. Morgan, in my opinion, is going to be a good one here. I don't know enough about Colbert, but he was fairly well regarded, is bouncy, and tries to dunk everything. I don't think much of Tate as a Big Ten player, but if you're going to reach, at least we reached with the best school in the state.

I'm extremely happy with the type of kids that Groce is recruiting. I'm confident he'll land a big fish sooner than later, but would be shocked if its Alexander or Lyle. I just don't see it at this point in his tenure, unless they're desperate to start as freshmen and Groce has all but promised that. In fact, I hope he does. Every other school does, and it drove me nuts when Weber took a hard line against that. I still get dry heaves when I think of Weber telling Derrick F'ing Rose he'd have to compete for minutes against Chester Frazier.

I'm happy with how Groce handles the media, and how he's positive with the kids on the sideline. I think he could probably be a bit better with the officials, but I won't even notice that when we're winning.

I'm not at all happy with Brandon Paul. I realize he's taking the brunt of the abuse lately, but I think it's pretty well deserved. When you're happy to be the team's best player in the offseason, and when things are going well, it's fair game to get criticism when your play is hurting the team. When your supposed best player, in his 4th year of heavy minutes, is still dribbling the ball off his own feet, taking fallaway 3's and having to be benched to send a message, you aren't going to win a lot of games.

I'm not thrilled with DJ or Tyler, but I'm not as angry at them. DJ clearly cares, but he's just limited in what he can do out there. Tyler just doesn't belong as this level, unfortunately. He seems like a great kid, has earned a degree already, carries himself well, and I wanted him badly to have a big year, but his physical limitations are just too much to overcome. That said, I hope he busts out of this slump. As painful as it is to watch, I can't imagine what it's like to go through personally. At least his GF is smoking hot. Well done, Tyler.

I'm not happy with our 2011 class. I don't see Shaw, Langford or Djimbde ever being meaningful contributors. Henry clearly isn't the player I hoped he'd be. Tracy is the one guy who fights, but he's not a PG, and he's not a SG. He's just out there. Egwu clearly cares to, and I think he'll continue to get better and better throughout his career. Those two have to take a huge step next year if we're going to even be competitive.

I'm not at all happy with the fact that in 2005, we were on top of the basketball world, and 7 years later, we're the 10th best team in the Big Ten. It's mind blowing to me how far we've fallen.

So, overall, I'm not happy. This was a great program to follow for my entire college career, and the couple years after. I got legitimate enjoyment out of watching these kids compete. I haven't had fun watching Illinois Basketball in 5 years, other than our mini stretch of good basketball to start the season. 5 YEARS. I've watched every game the past 2 years, most of them from 7,000 miles away, and end up feeling disgusted every single time.

I know it sounds whiney and entitled, but I honestly feel like we deserve better than this. At what point does this become fun again? And, I don't see next year being real "fun" either.

I wish I was happy with Illini Basketball. In reality, I'm just slowly getting more resigned to the fact that we aren't even going to be as good as we once were, and I need to recalibrate expectations. Bring back the fun.
Spot on.

I agree with your final point, and don't really know what to make of it. Were we just lucky from like 2000-2006 (you know what, even that '99 team had the BTT run, include them, too)? That's a tough pill to swallow. I honestly don't know if I have it in me to keep watching teams stroll into the Hall and punch us in the mouth. It's brutal.

__________________
"Every single person on an Illinois message board is a 43 year old white father of two from the Peoria suburbs. This is known." - Kams Bathroom

@mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:15 PM   #14
Thor015
Posts: 456
I'm looking forward to a positive future with Groce in the driver's seat.

How do you know tyler's gf is hot???
Thor015 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:33 PM   #15
Foo G
Can bring the ball up
Foo G's Avatar
Location: Kirksville, MO
Posts: 4,251
The Big 10 is a freaking gauntlet.
I'm disappointed that we didn't show up at Purdue and against NW.
Really, I put that on Paul and Richardson.
They've been around long enough and have been through this 3 times already.
They should know what to expect and what it takes to win these games.
There are no easy games in this conference.
It exploits the weak.
This team has been out-toughed in every conference game except for Nebraska.
The defensive effort and intensity has been seriously lacking for the past month and a half.
That's my biggest beef with this team.
But, I am encouraged by what we have lined up after "the changing of the guards".
I don't expect to be a top team next year, but if the effort is consistent, I will be extremely happy.
Carry that over to the next few years and we will be a force to be reckoned with.
Consistency is the hallmark of a good program. (see Wisconsin and MSU)

__________________
Be the person your dog thinks you are.

"I understand there was an article written about Illinois basketball being put in its place. I'm gonna tell you what place it's in; it's in a great place. That's what place it's in." - Chief John Groce
Foo G is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:22 AM   #16
PointGuardU01
Posts: 1,526
Im a little nervous about some of the things JG and staff do from a tactical perspective but they seem to be making recruiting in-roads and signs on that front are positive. And let's face it, outside Madison, WI recruiting is the most important factor in college basketball success. In short, unhappy with how we are playing but excited and hopeful for the future. Lets start landing the big fish!
PointGuardU01 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:26 AM   #17
BoolahBoolah
BoolahBoolah's Avatar
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor015 View Post
I'm looking forward to a positive future with Groce in the driver's seat.

How do you know tyler's gf is hot???
Because I'm a tool, and follow him on Twitter. It's creepy, I know.
BoolahBoolah is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:29 AM   #18
radiodj
Location: Behind enemy lines in the shadow of Tiger country.
Posts: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by PointGuardU01 View Post
Im a little nervous about some of the things JG and staff do from a tactical perspective but they seem to be making recruiting in-roads and signs on that front are positive. And let's face it, outside Madison, WI recruiting is the most important factor in college basketball success. In short, unhappy with how we are playing but excited and hopeful for the future. Lets start landing the big fish!
This is pretty much where I stand on things too
radiodj is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:33 AM   #19
Thor015
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoolahBoolah View Post
Because I'm a tool, and follow him on Twitter. It's creepy, I know.
Well as long as you don't wait outside his or her apartment I guess it's not too weird =)

Everyone follows people on twitter these days.
Thor015 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:07 AM   #20
Shenanigans
Shenanigans's Avatar
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 261
Im still happy with Groce. I can tell there is something there, unlike Beckman.

__________________
Illini Bears Cubs Bulls Blackhawks
Shenanigans is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:10 AM   #21
brosox
Posts: 590
I like Groce's energy. I like his recruiting tenacity. However, I am still not sure if he will be a good coach because I haven't seen a single player improve over the course of this year, and many have gotten worse.

I am also not sure that he has sound offensive and defensive philosophies. Yes, we have limited players, but it just seems that offensively all we do is pick on the outside with the hope of getting an open three, or have one of Joseph, Brandon or Tracey try to drive to the basket. Unlike most teams we have played in the Big Ten, we seemingly never do anything on offense that is designed to get an open layup. On the defensive side, this grand plan of switching bigs onto guards at the top of the key has resulted in every team since Northwestern basically having lay up drills at our expense, either with the guard taking our big right to the basket, or passing down low to a big man guarded by a guard 8 to 10 inches shorter than him. I am not sure if this is his defensive scheme or if the players are just not executing what he wants done. I guess I am ok with a quick switch at the top of the key to disrupt the guard, but that switch has got to result in another switch within a second or two of our big man back onto their big man and our guard back onto their guard. That is not happening at all as we constantly go through the rest of the defensive set with the stupidity of having a big on a small and a small on a big. Time after time after time, which results in layups or fouls. Again, is this the intent of his coaching scheme? Or are the players just not executing and switching back immediately? You would think that one of the reporters covering this team would ask Groce this very simple question. I would love to see his answer because if he is coaching his players to make the switch and stay on the new man, then I have very serious questions about his coaching ability.

Yes, I am fully aware of the limitations of our players. I remember being on the Scout board a few years ago and having people attack me left and right for saying that the highly rated class of Paul/Richardson/Bertrand/Griffey seemed ill-conceived because we were effectively recruiting three wing players and no good ball handlers. However, despite the limitations of our players, it is getting very tired watching other teams (including lesser skilled teams like Northwestern) get lay up after layup against our defense, while we seemingly take hurried, contested threes and never get an easy chip shot. You would think that we could have some designed plays to get easy baskets. The fact that we seemingly don't is coaching.

All that being said, I will reserve my true judgment on Groce until I see this team play with his recruits. Next year's class, where we seemingly have each of the five positions covered, will be a start. I think Groce realizes the need for better skilled big men and ball handling guards, and I do think that his recruiting tenacity will get us those kind of players in the future. Unfortunately, I think it will take at least two more years before we start seeing the results. From the current team, I would be surprised if we got any real contributions from any of our returning players besides Joe, Tracey and Egwu. I am still not convinced that Henry is quick enough to play the 3 and he is too small to play the 4. When I see Langford shoot in warmups, it is painfully clear that he has no outside shot. Shaw has shown nothing and, watching Iggy in warmups, I doubt that he could start on a Division 2 team.

Even with the new guys, I just am not sure where the outside shooting will be coming from next year. While Rice may bring a better attitude than our current seniors, I think he will struggle because he is basically an inside player who lacks size and he will be playing against bigger, quicker big men than he was used to playing against in the Valley. I admit that I haven't seen Hill play, but I have seen Tate and Nunn play many times and don't think they are good, consistent shooters. I also think it will take at least two years for Morgan and Colbert to develop. So, next year will require some patience.

I really don't see Shaw, Iggy or Langford ever having a big role on this team. Because of his redshirt situation, I doubt that Langford will leave. Hopefully, decisions on Shaw and Iggy will be made soon after this season so we can bring in a couple of players who actually might be able to contribute to the team within two years.
brosox is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:52 AM   #22
IntenselyOrange
Posts: 7,299
Quote:
Originally Posted by brosox View Post
I like Groce's energy. I like his recruiting tenacity. However, I am still not sure if he will be a good coach because I haven't seen a single player improve over the course of this year, and many have gotten worse.
I still have my reservations as well, but I think Egwu has improved quite considerably.

I'd say I'm disappointed with the season. Not so much by the W/L record, but by the lack of cohesiveness and true offensive/defensive game plans. The B1G is a different animal from the MAC. Hopefully Groce will come in more prepared next season. I think it's very similar to a Freshman to Sophomore transition for a player and we should expect some major jumps in terms of coaching/preparedness.
IntenselyOrange is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:03 AM   #23
HsvIllini
HsvIllini's Avatar
Location: Alabama
Posts: 4,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
I still have my reservations as well, but I think Egwu has improved quite considerably.

I'd say I'm disappointed with the season. Not so much by the W/L record, but by the lack of cohesiveness and true offensive/defensive game plans. The B1G is a different animal from the MAC. Hopefully Groce will come in more prepared next season. I think it's very similar to a Freshman to Sophomore transition for a player and we should expect some major jumps in terms of coaching/preparedness.
If you listen to his press conferences, it seems that he does have game plans and it's more that they just aren't following them. That's why he keeps saying they need to trust the system and quit trying to play hero ball...
HsvIllini is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:19 AM   #24
lstewart53x3
lstewart53x3's Avatar
Location: Chambana
Posts: 1,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntenselyOrange View Post
I still have my reservations as well, but I think Egwu has improved quite considerably.

I'd say I'm disappointed with the season. Not so much by the W/L record, but by the lack of cohesiveness and true offensive/defensive game plans. The B1G is a different animal from the MAC. Hopefully Groce will come in more prepared next season. I think it's very similar to a Freshman to Sophomore transition for a player and we should expect some major jumps in terms of coaching/preparedness.
Do you think that back in 2005 BW's offense looked pretty good?

And how did his offense look the last few years with the current group of players?

So do you think that this set of players might be the reason JG's offense hasn't looked great? Since these are the same players that turned the 2005 thing of beauty into the 2012 pile of pure shi* under BW.

That's what I think.

Lets bring in a point guard that can pass and shoot, some wing players that can dribble, pass, and shoot, a power forward that can drop 3's, but also secure rebounds, and a center that knows what he's doing and might just get a rebound or two.

Once that happens, I have a feeling we'll see the entire JG offense, and I have a feeling we'll like what we see : )

Seriously, look at our offense right now:

*We have TA at the point guard spot. I think he'll be great in a few years, but he literally can't pass lol. We have a PG that can't PASS (or shoot for that matter).

*We have BP, who was awesome when we were winning, but look at this kid now. He shoots rainbows that rarely go in. He's an okay passer, sometimes, but he has way more stupid turnovers, than great passes. Plus he's a little lazy, and this is the best player on the team.

*We have DJ, who since he's been on campus has been able to do one thing and one thing only: makes 3's. Except the problem is, he isn't very good at making 3's lol. Yep, our 3 point specialist isn't a very good 3 point shooter. I think he's under 33% for the year.

*I could put Griffey here, but honestly, there's no point. We literally have no power forward. We've always known that he doesn't play defense and he doesn't rebound the ball, but he's been a pretty good 3 point guy. Not in conference though. How many has he missed now? Like 30 in a row.

*We have Egwu on the block, who just learned how to play basketball. I think he'll be good, and I think he's gotten better as the year has gone on. But still, he's a center that doesn't rebound.

It's actually kind of funny, when you look at:

We have a point guard that can't pass, a 3 point specialist that can't shoot, a power forward that can't play defense or shoot or do anything, and a center that can't rebound.

Early on in the year all of these problems were masked because we were knocking down 3's like crazy. Griffey never missed, BP shot lights out, DJ shot well, everyone did. Honestly, I thought we could keep doing that all year. I thought they became shooters and we'd be a good team this year. But now that the shots aren't falling, we're seeing the same team we saw last year that went 17-15 and didn't even make the NIT.

I don't agree with a few of the things JG has done, but he's a much better coach than I am, so I trust his judgement.

I don't mean to rag on our players. I like these guys, and even though it never worked out for BP3 and DJ, they'll always be some of my favorite players, who gave me some great memories (the Clemson game, the Gameday MSU game, the OSU game last year)

Our offense just has SO MANY holes that good BiG teams can exploit that. Honestly, I don't think this combination of players would look good consistently against BiG teams in any offense.

I trust JG, I trust his recruiting, I trust his coaching, and I think he'll turn this thing around.
lstewart53x3 is offline Reply With Quote
Old Feb 5, 2013, 07:30 AM   #25
Railsplitter
Banned
Posts: 503
I'm extremely happy. Happy that we have a new coach . Happy we have a new coaches reruits coming in . Happy that we are/ maybe in on some really top tier recruits. Happy that I won't have to watch these 3 or possibly 4 seniors play again after this year. The futures so bright I gotta wear shades. Edit 4 maybe 5 srs.
Railsplitter is offline Reply With Quote
Reply


« Previous Thread | Fighting Illini Basketball | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Forum Jump