Scott Suggs update

illinifan87 · Jul 9, 2007, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJohnson07

It would be so much easier to support Weber regarding the Gordon situation if he had landed some top talent sometime during his tenure at UI. The kid and his parents are liers for sure and I place little blame on Bruce is that one situation. Weber has to accept some of the blame though because after all he is the coach. Bruce is a great, likable guy but if he doesn't land at least one or two '08 recruits out of Shump, Dunigan, Suggs, and Miller, I don't want Bruce as our coach any more. I don't want to settle for mediocrity and it sure appears that that's the way we're headed. Bruce's recruiting has failed to keep UI in championship contention. I don't want UI to be like Purdue under Gene Keady. This is the final chance in my book to prove that Bruce can recruit. It's hard to imagine that if we had landed Matta that we would be in the situation we are in today. Sorry to be so negative but things have just not gone our way lately and don't appear to be improving. Where are our big time commits?! Everyone else seems to get them but us and I'm sick of it.

Ding, ding, ding...Jereme Richmond 5 star recruit is at the door.

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan87

Not when Gordon lies to your face throughout the entire summer. Just because he "lost" Gordon does not believe he should "bear the blame." Gordon lied through his teeth to pretty much everyone in Illini Nation, including BAM. He said multiple times that he was still solid to Illinois even when the Indiana stuff surfaced.

I'm sorry but I cannot, I repeat I cannot put blame on Weber for losing Gordon. Eric played us like a violin.

You have to put some blame on Weber. You keep recruiting the kid, or do more than Weber did. He gets some blame.

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan87

Ding, ding, ding...Jereme Richmond 5 star recruit is at the door.

long ways away and not official yet

illinifan87 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

You have to put some blame. You keep recruiting the kid, or do more than Weber did. He gets some blame.

What more could Weber do? Gordon says he's still commited to Illinois, you have to trust your recruits when they tell you this.

This is what gets me. People say "well Bruce should've done more." What else could he have done? Seriously, what else? The kid lied to your face the entire summer, told every interviewer that he was solid for Illinois, his dad said the same thing...I'm sure BAM kept up with the IU stuff but when a recruit tells you flat out not to worry and that he's still solid, what else is a coach supposed to do?

I'm all ears on this one....

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:06 PM

you keep recruiting him, i dont know, go harder at him, act like hes not as committed as he 'is'.

you stay on him and act like hes not committed

you also talk to other recruits and say we dont know 100 percent that gordons coming

illini4everjp · Jul 9, 2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

you keep recruiting him, i dont know, go harder at him, act like hes not as committed as he 'is'.

Awesome answer

illinifan87 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

long ways away and not official yet

Then I don't want to hear you rejoicing if we land one of our top recruits, well because he wouldn't be signed yet. Basically what this board is telling me is that verbals mean nothing, and that if a guy like Suggs commited next week that it wouldn't matter beause he's not signed.

Wow. Give credit where credit is due. Bruce got a verbal from one of the best prospects in 2010. And as a long as he's an Illini commit, Bruce deserves credit for getting him.

illinifan87 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

you keep recruiting him, i dont know, go harder at him, act like hes not as committed as he 'is'.

you stay on him and act like hes not committed

you also talk to other recruits and say we dont know 100 percent that gordons coming

And you don't think Bruce did that? The "I don't know" comment was enough for me to stop paying attention to that argument, no offense webersman.

MrJohnson07 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:10 PM

I'm not willing to wait until 2010. We shouldn't have to wait 5-10 years between landing 5-star recruits. It's unacceptable. If we actually do land Richmond, how long before we land the next great player? Will it be 2015? 2020?

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan87

Then I don't want to hear you rejoicing if we land one of our top recruits, well because he wouldn't be signed yet. Basically what this board is telling me is that verbals mean nothing, and that if a guy like Suggs commited next week that it wouldn't matter beause he's not signed.

Wow. Give credit where credit is due. Bruce got a verbal from one of the best prospects in 2010. And as a long as he's an Illini commit, Bruce deserves credit for getting him.

No I wont rejoice, as weve seen that verbals dont mean much..Gordon decommitted...so no, verbals dont mean a lot, but a commit now would mean more than gordon's because were closer to signing day, and the landscape isnt going to change much (ie coaching changes); so were more likely to actually sign him

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan87

And you don't think Bruce did that? The "I don't know" comment was enough for me to stop paying attention to that argument, no offense webersman.

I say i dont know because im not a college coach and dont know the type of contact a coach can have at certain times and when he can have that contact. you contact gordon as much as u can, and act like hes not committed. you stay on him. u do more than bruce did.

illinifan87 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

No I wont rejoice, as weve seen that verbals dont mean much..Gordon decommitted...so no, verbals dont mean a lot, but a commit now would mean more than gordon's because were closer to signing day, and the landscape isnt going to change much (ie coaching changes); so were more likely to actually sign him

Then I don't want to hear you saying "it's about time" if we land a recruit before signing day until he actually commits.

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illini4everjp

Awesome answer

nice edit.

you stay on the kid. you act like hes not committed. i say i dont know because i dont know the exact rules regarding contact. but u do more than bruce did.

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan87

Then I don't want to hear you saying "it's about time" if we land a recruit before signing day until he actually commits.

ha, I wont.

But I do say, if Suggs commits tomorrow, Ill feel a lot better about him coming than when gordon did, because again, were closer to signing day, and the landscape isnt going to change much between now and signing day.

illini4everjp · Jul 9, 2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

nice edit.

you stay on the kid. you act like hes not committed. i say i dont know because i dont know the exact rules regarding contact. but u do more than bruce did.

More of a clarification edit than anything else.

But if you don't know the exact rules regarding contact, how can you say what Bruce did or didn't do, or that he should have/could have done more. Again, its all speculation.

illinifan87 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

I say i dont know because im not a college coach and dont know the type of contact a coach can have at certain times and when he can have that contact. you contact gordon as much as u can, and act like hes not committed. you stay on him. u do more than bruce did.

Again, you don't think Bruce did that? How do you know what Bruce did? You criticize the guy when you don't know the facts. Bruce was on Gordon the entire summer, he kept close contact with him, he was told that Eric was coming to Illinois many, many times.

This could've happened to any coach, at any time. Hell even the "great" Bill Self could've had this happen to him. I'm sure if EJ said all the things to Bill he said to Bruce, well it would've been the same situation.

EJ's dad was the mastermind behind this whole thing. They knew what they were doing and they knew where they were going for a long time.

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illini4everjp

More of a clarification edit than anything else.

But if you don't know the exact rules regarding contact, how can you say what Bruce did or didn't do, or that he should have/could have done more. Again, its all speculation.

ok, he said 'you stop recruiting when a guy commits.' i read that several times. that was dumb. you keep recruiting other guys. you say were not 100 percent sure gordons coming.

yes its speculation, but we know weber hast been up to snuff regarding recruiting. do we really think he did as much as, say, a matta would do? if a kid tells u he commits, and is looking elsewhere a little, you keep recruiting other guys, and even that kid more.

OrangeFever · Jul 9, 2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinifan87

What more could Weber do? Gordon says he's still commited to Illinois, you have to trust your recruits when they tell you this.

This is what gets me. People say "well Bruce should've done more." What else could he have done? Seriously, what else? The kid lied to your face the entire summer, told every interviewer that he was solid for Illinois, his dad said the same thing...I'm sure BAM kept up with the IU stuff but when a recruit tells you flat out not to worry and that he's still solid, what else is a coach supposed to do?

I'm all ears on this one....

He gave out all kinds of signals. It became obvious to me he was waffling big time, even as Weber kept drifting along. He needed to really gear up, and he needed to get in Sanctions' face and say, "Stay off him". I think he sat on his thumbs, fiddling while Rome burned. He as much as admitted it later, and went further after the Rose fiasco to acknowledge errors in his recruiting strategies and practices, this from a coach four years into the job, and with something like 25 years of D-1 experience. If he didn't "get it" by then, what hope do we realistically have that he can figure it out now? Besides, you can't "figure out" personality. He's like unleavened bread.

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:23 PM

We dont know what Weber did exactly, but if myself, OF, and hundreds of others could see the Gordon switch coming, why didnt Weber as much as it appears he did not? You stay on the kid more.

NV Illini 74 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

ok, he said 'you stop recruiting when a guy commits.' i read that several times. that was dumb. you keep recruiting other guys. you say were not 100 percent sure gordons coming.

yes its speculation, but we know weber hast been up to snuff regarding recruiting. do we really think he did as much as, say, a matta would do? if a kid tells u he commits, and is looking elsewhere a little, you keep recruiting other guys, and even that kid more.

IIRC, Weber's comment that 'you stop recruiting when a guy commits' refers to OTHER coaches recruiting your recruit who has verballed. Further, Weber continued to visit and/or contact IDKWTI frequently after he verballed, both before and especially during the Sanctions contact period.

With hindsight, Weber should have had a backup plan then. But, hey, maybe in his judgement, that would be telling IDKWTI that it would be ok to renege.

Time to move on. Again.

webersman · Jul 9, 2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NV Illini 74

IIRC, Weber's comment that 'you stop recruiting when a guy commits' refers to OTHER coaches recruiting your recruit who has verballed. Further, Weber continued to visit and/or contact IDKWTI frequently after he verballed, both before and especially during the Sanctions contact period.

With hindsight, Weber should have had a backup plan then. But, hey, maybe in his judgement, that would be telling IDKWTI that it would be ok to renege.

Time to move on. Again.

he also said when a guy commits, you stop recruiting...you meaning the head coach of the guy who committed.

"If you have a kid [orally] committed, then for that eight or nine months you don't recruit anyone else. So you lose all that time recruiting other kids, because you have one committed. Ask 98 percent of the coaches, and they'll tell you that they stop calling kids once they [orally commit]. We do. Most do it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recru...ory?id=2624000

theres a fine line, as far as recruiting other guys when a gordon is committed, but u could be telling him, were playing this game, you better commit..of course u can go too far and he can back out, or u can not play the game enough, but have to kinda play it

OrangeFever · Jul 9, 2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webersman

ok, he said 'you stop recruiting when a guy commits.' i read that several times. that was dumb. you keep recruiting other guys. you say were not 100 percent sure gordons coming.

yes its speculation, but we know weber hast been up to snuff regarding recruiting. do we really think he did as much as, say, a matta would do? if a kid tells u he commits, and is looking elsewhere a little, you keep recruiting other guys, and even that kid more.

If not dumb, he was at least naive. No question Gordon was disingenuous, but Bruce got played, and he let it happen. As I've said, Gordon both left, was lured away, AND, Weber lost him. It was a combination with fault enough for everybody.

And, as has been said, one must look at the overall record. But to include a 15 year-old who verbaled but isn't due to formalize until 2010 is indicative. There's a very good chance, perhaps better than even, that he re-opens his recruitment as he gets closer to the point of decision and as he matures. He was 14 when he "committed" for crying out loud. Any coach who believes that to be solid is out to lunch, especially one who said, as BW did, "when a kid commits, you stop recruiting him." No, after he commits, you stay on him and demonstrate to him that he made the right decision, that he's vital, that you haven't forgotten about him. To do otherwise, is simply naive, possibly even "dumb".

I don't think anything about the recruiting process comes naturally or intuitively to Weber. He seems to soldier through it gamely, almost robotically, while the naturally personable, outgoing coaches tip toe along. For Weber, it seems a necessary nuisance and something he struggles to grasp, let alone embrace, as he MUST, in order attain lasting success.

NV Illini 74 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:28 PM

Hey, back on topic - any new news on Scott Suggs?

OrangeFever · Jul 9, 2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NV Illini 74

Hey, back on topic - any new news on Scott Suggs?

Yeah, it appears to be between Mizzou, Illinois, and Washington.

MrJohnson07 · Jul 9, 2007, 01:34 PM

[QUOTE=NV Illini 74;59158]IIRC, Weber's comment that 'you stop recruiting when a guy commits' refers to OTHER coaches recruiting your recruit who has verballed. Further, Weber continued to visit and/or contact IDKWTI frequently after he verballed, both before and especially during the Sanctions contact period.

With hindsight, Weber should have had a backup plan then. But, hey, maybe in his judgement, that would be telling IDKWTI that it would be ok to renege.

Time to move on. Again.[/QUOTE]

It is way past time to move on concerning the Gordon situation. I don't blame Sampson. I blame the Gordon family (95%) and Bruce (5%). Unfortunately all the blame in the world will not change the fact that recruiting or lack thereof remains the biggest problem our basketball faces year after freaking year! The problem is not with other programs, it's at home in CU and if it is not fixed, we will never win a championship. We will never even compete for a championship.

Jul 9, 2007, 01:06 PM	#105
webersman Posts: 3,107	Re: Scott Suggs update you keep recruiting him, i dont know, go harder at him, act like hes not as committed as he 'is'. you stay on him and act like hes not committed you also talk to other recruits and say we dont know 100 percent that gordons coming

Jul 9, 2007, 01:10 PM	#109
MrJohnson07 Location: Chicago Posts: 138	Re: Scott Suggs update I'm not willing to wait until 2010. We shouldn't have to wait 5-10 years between landing 5-star recruits. It's unacceptable. If we actually do land Richmond, how long before we land the next great player? Will it be 2015? 2020?

Jul 9, 2007, 01:23 PM	#119
webersman Posts: 3,107	Re: Scott Suggs update We dont know what Weber did exactly, but if myself, OF, and hundreds of others could see the Gordon switch coming, why didnt Weber as much as it appears he did not? You stay on the kid more.

Jul 9, 2007, 01:28 PM	#123
NV Illini 74 Posts: 5,279	Re: Scott Suggs update Hey, back on topic - any new news on Scott Suggs?

Jul 9, 2007, 01:34 PM	#125
MrJohnson07 Location: Chicago Posts: 138	Re: Scott Suggs update [QUOTE=NV Illini 74;59158]IIRC, Weber's comment that 'you stop recruiting when a guy commits' refers to OTHER coaches recruiting your recruit who has verballed. Further, Weber continued to visit and/or contact IDKWTI frequently after he verballed, both before and especially during the Sanctions contact period. With hindsight, Weber should have had a backup plan then. But, hey, maybe in his judgement, that would be telling IDKWTI that it would be ok to renege. Time to move on. Again.[/QUOTE] It is way past time to move on concerning the Gordon situation. I don't blame Sampson. I blame the Gordon family (95%) and Bruce (5%). Unfortunately all the blame in the world will not change the fact that recruiting or lack thereof remains the biggest problem our basketball faces year after freaking year! The problem is not with other programs, it's at home in CU and if it is not fixed, we will never win a championship. We will never even compete for a championship.