Scott Suggs update

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by illinifan87

Btw, the package deal was not in place when Matt wanted the offer. That needed to be cleared up.

What makes it look bad is that Weber later offered. I know all the comments about Humphrey's less than outstanding HS season, etc., etc., but the fact of the matter remains that we didn't offer, others did, then we offered, and the family intimated, "too late". When I said "It looks like another botched effort", what I meant was, that may be the impression, the way it's viewed. The Humphreys almost seem to want to cast it in that light (which is where the sour grapes come in).

It's too bad. Illinois needs strong moves and good press, not more, "might have beens", close calls, and "almosts". We also need solid stuff now, not the future commits of young teenagers. Those are nice, but they mean little. Those of us who have raised teenagers know very well how whimsical the decisions are, no matter how earnestly made at the time. It's just part of growing up. Personally, as much as I was happy to hear of Richmond's early verbal, I was chagrined and even more disturbed that his father did most of the talking about how solid it was and how his family didn't operate like certain other families. Richmond needs to approach this with an open mind when he's 17 or 18, and I hope he does. His views well may change, as well as his options. He will owe it to himself to re-visit the issue and BW (or his successor . . . :rolleyes: ) better be very attentive and supportive in that process.

[MrJohnson07]

Anybody happen to catch the new Scout articles on Suggs and Shumpert today? Was it the same old news or what?

[OrangeFever]

In fact, there's another point. What if, for whatever reason, Weber isn't here in late 2009 and early 2010? Then what? Given my observations and questions about BW, maybe that wouldn't be a problem.

[webersman]

that could happen in 2009

1. do we fire Weber? he has Richmond coming

2. will Richmond back out if Weber is fired? could be an interesting situation to see if Richmond backs out after committing so long, even though i think itd be ok if he backed out

3. can a new coach get richmond

[MrJohnson07]

Originally Posted by webersman

that could happen in 2009

1. do we fire Weber? he has Richmond coming

2. will Richmond back out if Weber is fired? could be an interesting situation to see if Richmond backs out after committing so long, even though i think itd be ok if he backed out

3. can a new coach get richmond

All good questions. I believe it would be worth the chance of losing Richmond to bring in a coach who will do a better job recruiting going forward. I believe Richmond is going to commit to UI no matter who the coach is. Weber has completely failed to capitalize on a run to the championship game whereas Matta built a momentum from scratch and made it to the championship game with his own recruits. What type of coach would you guys rather have at UI? To me the answer is pretty simple. Where is Bruce's momentum going to come from now? The only time UI seems to be mentioned by the media any more is when players commit crimes. I just feel we are headed in the wrong direction. SIU could beat us last year, went deeper in the tournament, and will be ranked higher than us once again this year. It's insane.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by MrJohnson07

All good questions. I believe it would be worth the chance of losing Richmond to bring in a coach who will do a better job recruiting going forward. I believe Richmond is going to commit to UI no matter who the coach is. Weber has completely failed to capitalize on a run to the championship game whereas Matta built a momentum from scratch and made it to the championship game with his own recruits. What type of coach would you guys rather have at UI? To me the answer is pretty simple. Where is Bruce's momentum going to come from now? The only time UI seems to be mentioned by the media any more is when players commit crimes. I just feel we are headed in the wrong direction. SIU could beat us last year, went deeper in the tournament, and will be ranked higher than us once again this year. It's insane.

Honestly, this is like an echo. You are a new poster, but these are the exact arguments I've made in here for the past two years (and not just me, but also IF03 and a couple others). All of the momentum from the great run in '04-'05 was squandered. Some contend that we still can capture younger players whose hearts were turned toward Illinois when they were in Jr. High and early HS, but that's malarky and, besides, we haven't seen it. There has been no emotional response, no real excitement about coming to Illinois even after the near miss and such charismatic players as Dee, Deron, and Luther, all of whom are high visibility in the NBA.

You pose the right questions.

Why did we not/could we not capitalize?

From what will momentum now come?

To sustain success, you must have success and you must be ready and able to build on it. Illinois had the former but not the latter under Weber.

[IlliniAnge]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

Honestly, this is like an echo. You are a new poster, but these are the exact arguments I've made in here for the past two years (and not just me, but also IF03 and a couple others). All of the momentum from the great run in '04-'05 was squandered. Some contend that we still can capture younger players whose hearts were turned toward Illinois when they were in Jr. High and early HS, but that's malarky and, besides, we haven't seen it. There has been no emotional response, no real excitement about coming to Illinois even after the near miss and such charismatic players as Dee, Deron, and Luther, all of whom are high visibility in the NBA.

You pose the right questions.

Why did we not/could we not capitalize?

From what will momentum now come?

To sustain success, you must have success and you must be ready and able to build on it. Illinois had the former but not the latter under Weber.

Exactly. And even though I know I am going to get the nutroots foaming at the mouth again, Like MrJ states, the only time you hear about Illini hoops these days is in the police blotter. What most people forget about here is that these high school kids have parents that are most likely none-too-keen on having their sons commiserating with alcoholics and felons for the next four years. Like it or not, there is no way that these events haven't taken their toll in the parental p.r. game. We are not only not getting quality players, we are in come cases are not getting quality people.

[james81]

Originally Posted by MrJohnson07

The only time UI seems to be mentioned by the media any more is when players commit crimes.

I'm curious. Just what is it you read? The UI is held in esteem by coaches, players, fans, and yes, even reporters. I see it weekly and I read a lot. I appreciate reading opinions and arguments when they contribute to a meaningful discussion. I find it hard to take people seriously when they substitute banter for grounded reason.

[OrangeFever]

Originally Posted by james81

I'm curious. Just what is it you read? The UI is held in esteem by coaches, players, fans, and yes, even reporters. I see it weekly and I read a lot. I appreciate reading opinions and arguments when they contribute to a meaningful discussion. I find it hard to take people seriously when they substitute banter for grounded reason.

You certainly are correct that Illinois is widely esteemed. Lately, however, there has been more conversation about recruiting foibles and the disciplinary issues, because those things make news. Just like Wonder Boy at tOSU having a couple of early commits re-open their recruitment is newsworthy. Still, it's an accurate observation that there has been more of this kind of thing at Illinois over the last year and more and it is a source of mixed publicity.

I'd be more than a little surprised if you actually see positive press about Illinois on a weekly basis in North Carolina. I'm in Seattle Washington, and Illinois is rarely in the news here. Jamar Smith's rather notorious story did make the papers here, but otherwise, Illinois is largely ignored. It's a sad reality that the more sensational stories dominate coverage and even casual discussion. This may be why hyperbolic statements like the one to which you objected are expressed.

It is undeniable, however, that the amount of negative and questioning commentary on Illiinois athletics has grown. It is something that needs to be addressed (not the publicity, the cause and the correction).

[james81]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

I'd be more than a little surprised if you actually see positive press about Illinois on a weekly basis in North Carolina.

Actually, what I tend to read in NC, recently, is what a poor job Roy Williams is doing in his recruiting.

[FinalFour88]

Originally Posted by OrangeFever

Much like Shumpert, who, I think, is waiting on Williams and UNC,

If UNC really is a major player for Shumpert, it would run counter to everything he's been saying to this point about how he's considering more the teams who were there from the start, not the ones who all of a sudden jumped on the bandwagon.

[illini80]

I just don't get it. This subject has been run into the ground so many times I can't tell if its deja vu or if I'm really spending my time reading this again.

I understand the frustration on BOTH sides of this. I was not a big fan of the Weber hire, but he is our coach and will be for the foreseeable future. I think he has done a decent job and is a good coach. Not a great recruiter but is honest and does his best and cares about his players. He will contend for the B10 most years and make the tourney. It could be better, but I can live with that. (Like I have a choice!)

We can wish for Thadd Motta or Bill Self or Roy W. or Coach K, but it will never happen. We have never kept a really good coach in football or basketball. They can make a better living somewhere else coaching for someone else. That's the way it is. I would bet my last dollar if Zook starts winning big time, the offers will come from the biggest programs in the country with money Illinois will never match.

You know passion is a great thing, but this is really just entertainment. If you think being an elite program makes the world a great place, try reading the boards of UNC or UK or even Kansas. No one is ever satisfied. You can never win enough. It's human nature to be greedy.

So enjoy the debate, but remember it's for FUN right?!?!?!?!?

[james81]

Originally Posted by FinalFour88

If UNC really is a major player for Shumpert, it would run counter to everything he's been saying to this point about how he's considering more the teams who were there from the start, not the ones who all of a sudden jumped on the bandwagon.

Remember, he's just 17. In the end, every player will make a decision based on self-interest, and in the world of college sports, that can change quickly. Every coach knows it, and nobody feels content until signing day.

[JW]

Originally Posted by illini80

I just don't get it. This subject has been run into the ground so many times I can't tell if its deja vu or if I'm really spending my time reading this again.

I understand the frustration on BOTH sides of this. I was not a big fan of the Weber hire, but he is our coach and will be for the foreseeable future. I think he has done a decent job and is a good coach. Not a great recruiter but is honest and does his best and cares about his players. He will contend for the B10 most years and make the tourney. It could be better, but I can live with that. (Like I have a choice!)

We can wish for Thadd Motta or Bill Self or Roy W. or Coach K, but it will never happen. We have never kept a really good coach in football or basketball. They can make a better living somewhere else coaching for someone else. That's the way it is. I would bet my last dollar if Zook starts winning big time, the offers will come from the biggest programs in the country with money Illinois will never match.

You know passion is a great thing, but this is really just entertainment. If you think being an elite program makes the world a great place, try reading the boards of UNC or UK or even Kansas. No one is ever satisfied. You can never win enough. It's human nature to be greedy.

So enjoy the debate, but remember it's for FUN right?!?!?!?!?

I couldn't agree more. Self left. That says a lot. Who was breaking down the doors at Assembly Hall in the summer of 2003 to coach here?

The coaches named in the first page (Matta, Izzo, Williams, Gil-how do you spell it) don't want to coach here, and they most certainly don't want to stay in Urbana-Champaign. And its not just about money. If you want Collins, he would love to coach here and probably be in it for the long run, but he isn't in the same league as Bruce Weber. And Dee Brown won't be behind the bench for another ten years.

We have a coach who is an honest man and he will stay here until he is run out of town. His recruiting is improving. He has kept the alumni (Dee, Deron, Luther etc) active in the program.

I would like to see more focus on what we have, which is a pretty solid coach. You can say what you want but until we start missing the tournament or falling below .500 in the Big Ten, Bruce isn't going anywhere.

We might also stop pointing the finger at Bruce and start looking at how the Athletic Department could help him. Better facilities would be a start. Better PR on television in Chicago should be a priority. He has to compete with Kansas, Ohio State, and other schools that have things we simply don't.

On a side note, and I hate to add this, but we know our comments here are viewed by people such as Griffey's father and someone who could post delivery room pictures of Jamar. I can't help but think that if you are Dunigan or Shumpert, you might wonder from all this criticism, what the hell is going on. With fans/friends like our ours, who needs Indiana or Wisconsin, we have enough anger in our own backyard. And that isn't to silence the critics, just a reminder of how we are portraying ourselves as alumni.

[CrazedUIFan]

Originally Posted by jonwalker

I couldn't agree more. Self left. That says a lot. Who was breaking down the doors at Assembly Hall in the summer of 2003 to coach here?

The coaches named in the first page (Matta, Izzo, Williams, Gil-how do you spell it) don't want to coach here, and they most certainly don't want to stay in Urbana-Champaign. And its not just about money. If you want Collins, he would love to coach here and probably be in it for the long run, but he isn't in the same league as Bruce Weber. And Dee Brown won't be behind the bench for another ten years.

We have a coach who is an honest man and he will stay here until he is run out of town. His recruiting is improving. He has kept the alumni (Dee, Deron, Luther etc) active in the program.

I would like to see more focus on what we have, which is a pretty solid coach. You can say what you want but until we start missing the tournament or falling below .500 in the Big Ten, Bruce isn't going anywhere.

We might also stop pointing the finger at Bruce and start looking at how the Athletic Department could help him. Better facilities would be a start. Better PR on television in Chicago should be a priority. He has to compete with Kansas, Ohio State, and other schools that have things we simply don't.

On a side note, and I hate to add this, but we know our comments here are viewed by people such as Griffey's father and someone who could post delivery room pictures of Jamar. I can't help but think that if you are Dunigan or Shumpert, you might wonder from all this criticism, what the hell is going on. With fans/friends like our ours, who needs Indiana or Wisconsin, we have enough anger in our own backyard. And that isn't to silence the critics, just a reminder of how we are portraying ourselves as alumni.

I couldn't agree more. I know there are some that are frustrated, but we have a very hard working staff who has a great reputation for Xs and Os. JW points out some other things that affect recruiting, not just BW. I think it is fine to voice concern in a manner that does not show up in every thread. I want the Illini to be successful. I can contribute by waiting until the recruiting this year is over and the performance on the court. I am excited about the upcoming class. They may not be big impact players this year, but having a healthy team practicing together a full year will make a world of difference the following year. I think this staff is capable of surprising many this coming year.

[bonick03]

Unbelievable how much "doom and gloom" can come out of raw speculation (and your words, '03 and 'Fev, are indeed all doom and gloom - when you're teetering on the edge of calling Illinois a failed program, calling for the head to be cut from the coach, and giving up on a recruiting season THAT HAS JUST BEGUN - THAT, my friends, is doom and gloom). Has anyone heard anything out of Dunigan's mouth, or Shumpert's mouth, or Miller's mouth, or Suggs' mouth that would positively indicate that they are leaning away from Illinois? I think Yates pointed it out earlier, but these guys are doing exactly, EXACTLY, what they said they would - play it out, take some visits, and make a decision, MAYBE, at the end of the summer or in the fall. The so-called reports of us getting a LOI by July 4, or whatever else, have come from the mouths of everyone BUT the players. The reports that we are in good shape with a recruit, or ready to sign a recruit, or not, come from fans, recruiting insiders, and everyone else besides the player. And those people, we all know very well, are usually off. ESPECIALLY in recruiting. And this is what is getting you guys all worked up! Speculation! Slow down a little and enjoy the ride, fellas.

[bonick03]

[Chris Yates]

Originally Posted by MrJohnson07

All good questions. I believe it would be worth the chance of losing Richmond to bring in a coach who will do a better job recruiting going forward. I believe Richmond is going to commit to UI no matter who the coach is. Weber has completely failed to capitalize on a run to the championship game whereas Matta built a momentum from scratch and made it to the championship game with his own recruits. What type of coach would you guys rather have at UI? To me the answer is pretty simple. Where is Bruce's momentum going to come from now? The only time UI seems to be mentioned by the media any more is when players commit crimes. I just feel we are headed in the wrong direction. SIU could beat us last year, went deeper in the tournament, and will be ranked higher than us once again this year. It's insane.

Wow! I don't even know where to start in responding to this. Why is SIU a powerhouse these days, anyway? Who jump-started that program? And he has been given a chance to settle in at UI for how many years? So after BW was the consensus national coach of the year in 2005, he should be fired in 2007 because the message boards aren't happy with the lack of commitments so far in the class of '08 after he put together a solid class that just arrived on campus. Oh, and he has won well over 20 games every single season and taken us to the NCAA tournament every single year? Now I understand. Fire Weber NOW! And for God's sake, hurry up and do it before a consensus top-five national recruit gets to campus. :rolleyes:

[bonick03]

Originally Posted by Chris Yates

Fire Weber NOW! And for God's sake, hurry up and do it before a consensus top-five national recruit gets to campus. :rolleyes:

Stop saying that, Yates. It's soooooo tiring. . . :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[MrJohnson07]

Originally Posted by Chris Yates

Wow! I don't even know where to start in responding to this. Why is SIU a powerhouse these days, anyway? Who jump-started that program? And he has been given a chance to settle in at UI for how many years? So after BW was the consensus national coach of the year in 2005, he should be fired in 2007 because the message boards aren't happy with the lack of commitments so far in the class of '08 after he put together a solid class that just arrived on campus. Oh, and he has won well over 20 games every single season and taken us to the NCAA tournament every single year? Now I understand. Fire Weber NOW! And for God's sake, hurry up and do it before a consensus top-five national recruit gets to campus. :rolleyes:

Wow it only took him what 5 years after a national championship run to get a five-star recruit and what 10 years to get his first one? That's very impressive. Half of those 20 wins are against teams like Austin Peay and Northwestern. Also impressive. Weber went from being consensus national coach of the year to the forgotten coach left in the dust.

[CrazedUIFan]

Last I checked, the 08 recruits hadn't made a decision. You all realize we only have two scholarships available, right? Why the negative posting about this class? I see there are some who post on here only to spout off negatives towards the program. I liked this site because it wasn't like the others. There are always a few that shout the loudest.

[webersman]

Originally Posted by CrazedUIFan

Last I checked, the 08 recruits hadn't made a decision. You all realize we only have two scholarships available, right? Why the negative posting about this class? I see there are some who post on here only to spout off negatives towards the program. I liked this site because it wasn't like the others. There are always a few that shout the loudest.

We'll see. It looks like we're in the best shape with Suggs. So that means there's a high probability that well get none of the best guys from Illinois. Ridiculous.
Liggins, Shumpert, Dunigan, Humphrey....high likelihood that none are coming.
Could be sad if we look at the all-state team in the Trib, News Gazette or PJS in march and see no first teamers coming to illinois.

[bonick03]

Originally Posted by CrazedUIFan

I liked this site because it wasn't like the others.

Looks like we are losing that distinction more and more every day. It's sad, really.

[MrJohnson07]

Originally Posted by CrazedUIFan

Last I checked, the 08 recruits hadn't made a decision. You all realize we only have two scholarships available, right? Why the negative posting about this class? I see there are some who post on here only to spout off negatives towards the program. I liked this site because it wasn't like the others. There are always a few that shout the loudest.

Sorry man. I just felt the need to vent and my girlfriend can't take it any more so I had to do it here. I will not only post negatives about the program. I love the program and that's why I'm so upset right now. I just want us to win a national championship. Of course I care about the Big Ten titles and winning percentage but I would take 10 .500 seasons to win a championship. I'm just not happy with Weber's recruiting history and extremely worried about the future. I really thought this year was going to be Weber's breakout year in recruiting. It still may be but all the latest news says Dunigan is leaning toward G'town and Shumpert is leaning toward the ACC which is discouraging.

[CrazedUIFan]

Originally Posted by webersman

We'll see. It looks like we're in the best shape with Suggs. So that means there's a high probability that well get none of the best guys from Illinois. Ridiculous.
Liggins, Shumpert, Dunigan, Humphrey....high likelihood that none are coming.
Could be sad if we look at the all-state team in the Trib, News Gazette or PJS in march and see no first teamers coming to illinois.

Can I borrow your crystal ball? I don't really care where the recruits come from. If you build a program that is successful, it doesn't matter.