John Groce at Illinois

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#876      
And that's even assuming TJL's scoring translates to the Big Ten. Even with Tracy on the perimeter there is no guarantee that he's the same defensive bulldog that he was his first 3 years with the injuries and time off. We're going to have to average 90 a game to have a winning record.

Doesn't that also assume that we don't improve defensively?
 
#877      
Here is what I would do as soon as I became the AD. Let me know your thoughts. I would release the entire coaching staff. I would hire Jerrance Howard as head coach...is he ready? Sure, why not. What else do we have to lose. He loves Illinois, he has recruiting cred, likeable guy. Been working under some legends also...so he has to know something about the game. He's ready...it's time.

I would hire Dee Brown, Roger Powell, and Deon Thomas as assistants. Imagine Dee, Jerrance, Roger walking in to scout a kid. I would also try to get Steve Bardo.

I would go with the all African American staff...be a trailblazer, create some media attention..a buzz at Illinois for doing it.

No thanks on Jerrance. He didn't get the Bradley job after his weed offense and not disclosing it in a timely manner to Self.
I also get the sense that there was some kind of less than ideal circumstances around the time that Jerrance left Illinois. Maybe it was just him angling for a job that he didn't get. IDK.
I also get the sense that Howard got a lot of credit for recruiting successes that maybe weren't completely his work alone and alot of those recruits just never panned out. I guess I'm not sure on what basis Jerrance has earned a shot at being the head coach here. I'm all in on Brown and Powell as assistants though.
 
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#878      
Here is what I would do as soon as I became the AD. Let me know your thoughts. I would release the entire coaching staff. I would hire Jerrance Howard as head coach...is he ready? Sure, why not. What else do we have to lose. He loves Illinois, he has recruiting cred, likeable guy. Been working under some legends also...so he has to know something about the game. He's ready...it's time.

I would hire Dee Brown, Roger Powell, and Deon Thomas as assistants. Imagine Dee, Jerrance, Roger walking in to scout a kid. I would also try to get Steve Bardo.

I would go with the all African American staff...be a trailblazer, create some media attention..a buzz at Illinois for doing it. ]

I think that you'd be doing this for all of the wrong reasons and it would be far, far more likely to fail spectacularly than to have any success whatsoever.
 
#879      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
Here is what I would do if I became the new AD tomorrow. Let me know your thoughts on this.

I would release the entire coaching staff. I would hire Jerrance Howard. Is he ready? Sure he is. He's worked under enough great coaches now to understand what it takes. He is an Illinois guy (Loves Illinois), has recruiting cred, and is a likeable guy.

Then I would hire Dee Brown, Deon Thomas, and Roger Powell as my assistants. I would also try to sway Stephen Bardo away from the broadcast booth. Imagine Jerrance, Roger, and Dee walking into any HS gym recruiting.

I would go with the all African American staff. Create a buzz in the college hoops world..be a trailblazer. Do we really have anything to lose?


If I wanted to do an outside the box create some buzz hire, I would just put Dee in charge. He's the guy most want to end up doing it someday anyways. Why wait. Go get veteran coaches as his assistants, to help manage the Xs and Os. Worked at Iowa State with the Mayor.
 
#881      
IMO, Dee needs to be on the staff, whether it's under Groce or not, especially if it helps recruiting for the 2017 class. Groce is loyal to a fault, but sometimes tough decisions are necessary at this level of basketball. Even if the weaknesses are just bad lack, and not linked to any particular staff member, there needs to be a move that would excite the fanbase. That would be the only way for Groce to redeem himself(other than miraculously making the tourney this year) and get buy-in next year. If he is retained, there will be a bunch of unhappy fans, whether it is warranted or not. Maybe the new AD will force him to do this.. I guess we'll see soon.
 
#882      
...

I for one am very pumped to see what a line up of Lucas, Nunn, Hill, Black, and Finke can do. We haven't had balanced scoring options like that across the board in a long time.

... and where is the rebounding. Not going to contend for B1G championships with iffy defense and rebounding.
 
#886      
Here is what I would do if I became the new AD tomorrow. Let me know your thoughts on this.

I would release the entire coaching staff. I would hire Jerrance Howard. Is he ready? Sure he is. He's worked under enough great coaches now to understand what it takes. He is an Illinois guy (Loves Illinois), has recruiting cred, and is a likeable guy.

Then I would hire Dee Brown, Deon Thomas, and Roger Powell as my assistants. I would also try to sway Stephen Bardo away from the broadcast booth. Imagine Jerrance, Roger, and Dee walking into any HS gym recruiting.

I would go with the all African American staff. Create a buzz in the college hoops world..be a trailblazer. Do we really have anything to lose?

Don't forget Jerry Hester, Kenny Battle, Sergio, Ervin Small and Tony Wysinger!
 
#887      
IMO, Dee needs to be on the staff, whether it's under Groce or not, especially if it helps recruiting for the 2017 class. Groce is loyal to a fault, but sometimes tough decisions are necessary at this level of basketball. Even if the weaknesses are just bad lack, and not linked to any particular staff member, there needs to be a move that would excite the fanbase. That would be the only way for Groce to redeem himself(other than miraculously making the tourney this year) and get buy-in next year. If he is retained, there will be a bunch of unhappy fans, whether it is warranted or not. Maybe the new AD will force him to do this.. I guess we'll see soon.

I spoke to Dee about it a while ago and he said basically if they ask he will do it but he is not campaigning for the job. Asked about recruiting and said that DWill and him didnt get anything and thinks its a joke that players at other schools are playing dirty. Said that if you want to come to Illinois it's because you want to be here not because someone is forcing you or paying you to come. You could feel the passion that he has for Illinois when he talks and would just tear it up on the recruiting trail.
 
#888      
Says a guy saying the former Illinois player needs to be on staff no matter what.

I have many faults, there's no doubt about that :D

I guess I should have said "should" instead of "need". Winning would help the general atmosphere, but hope goes a long way. We can't win in the offseason, but we can give people the latter. I think the recruits would be more comfortable with choosing Illinois if we weren't seen so negatively. There are other options as well, I just think this is one way to bandaid the situation, which could help if it this is indeed just a bunch of bad luck.
 
#889      

ILL in IA

Iowa City
I spoke to Dee about it a while ago and he said basically if they ask he will do it but he is not campaigning for the job. Asked about recruiting and said that DWill and him didnt get anything and thinks its a joke that players at other schools are playing dirty. Said that if you want to come to Illinois it's because you want to be here not because someone is forcing you or paying you to come. You could feel the passion that he has for Illinois when he talks and would just tear it up on the recruiting trail.
That sounds like "I would like to be on staff but have enough respect for the guys in the job currently to say I want their job"
 
#890      

HoopCity

Huntsville, AL
Here is what I would do as soon as I became the AD. Let me know your thoughts. I would release the entire coaching staff. I would hire Jerrance Howard as head coach...is he ready? Sure, why not. What else do we have to lose. He loves Illinois, he has recruiting cred, likeable guy. Been working under some legends also...so he has to know something about the game. He's ready...it's time.

I would hire Dee Brown, Roger Powell, and Deon Thomas as assistants. Imagine Dee, Jerrance, Roger walking in to scout a kid. I would also try to get Steve Bardo.

I would go with the all African American staff...be a trailblazer, create some media attention..a buzz at Illinois for doing it.


So you would hire someone with ZERO head coaching experience on any division level?

I would go with Bryce Drew with Roger Powell and if Jerrance wannted to join them I would have no problem with Jerrance coming back.

Right now, John Groce gets my support and hopefully gets this class he has been relentlessly working on.
 
#891      

zpfled

Logan Square, Chicago
Here is what I would do as soon as I became the AD. Let me know your thoughts. I would release the entire coaching staff. I would hire Jerrance Howard as head coach...is he ready? Sure, why not. What else do we have to lose. He loves Illinois, he has recruiting cred, likeable guy. Been working under some legends also...so he has to know something about the game. He's ready...it's time.

I would hire Dee Brown, Roger Powell, and Deon Thomas as assistants. Imagine Dee, Jerrance, Roger walking in to scout a kid. I would also try to get Steve Bardo.

I would go with the all African American staff...be a trailblazer, create some media attention..a buzz at Illinois for doing it.

That coaching staff could probably go above .500 in Big Ten play. As players.

I mean, they'd have to probably run some wind sprints to get back into game shape, but...
:)
 
#893      
IMO, Dee needs to be on the staff, whether it's under Groce or not, especially if it helps recruiting for the 2017 class. Groce is loyal to a fault, but sometimes tough decisions are necessary at this level of basketball. Even if the weaknesses are just bad lack, and not linked to any particular staff member, there needs to be a move that would excite the fanbase. That would be the only way for Groce to redeem himself(other than miraculously making the tourney this year) and get buy-in next year. If he is retained, there will be a bunch of unhappy fans, whether it is warranted or not. Maybe the new AD will force him to do this.. I guess we'll see soon.

I don't know if Dee needs to be on the staff, but if Groce is retained for another year he needs to change up his staff. If that means replacing Ford/Walker/Parham with someone like Dee or Deon or someone not affiliated with Illinois at all but is great at scouting/player development/ game planning then I'm willing to stick out another year of Groce to see what happens. But I feel we're just pulling a Zook with that strategy.
 
#894      
From an office politics standpoint, say Groce hires Dee next year and then gets fired. New regime comes in and cleans house. We lose Dee. Happens in every company across the country when new leaders are hired.

If I were Dee, I would need some assurances that I have a safe spot somewhere in the administration if Groce were ever let go.
 
#895      
I don't know if Dee needs to be on the staff, but if Groce is retained for another year he needs to change up his staff. If that means replacing Ford/Walker/Parham with someone like Dee or Deon or someone not affiliated with Illinois at all but is great at scouting/player development/ game planning then I'm willing to stick out another year of Groce to see what happens. But I feel we're just pulling a Zook with that strategy.

Dee and Deon together could make some waves in Chicago.
 
#896      
From an office politics standpoint, say Groce hires Dee next year and then gets fired. New regime comes in and cleans house. We lose Dee. Happens in every company across the country when new leaders are hired.

If I were Dee, I would need some assurances that I have a safe spot somewhere in the administration if Groce were ever let go.

I am quite sure that would not be an issue. Whether it would be on the new staff or elsewhere in the DIA, I am sure they could find a spot for Dee.
 
#897      
Ok, sure.

"Who the heck are these guys?" - HS Players

True.
They recognize the guys that they see on TV. They are impacted by seeing K, Roy, Self, Pitino, Boeheim, Izzo, etc come walking into a gym. They are impacted by coaches sending players to the NBA.
 
#898      

Soxfreak64

Bloomington
The thing that has ALWAYS bothered me about Groce offenses is the anemic off-ball movement.

Watching Indiana, MSU, and Maryland play Illinois is night and day. The best offenses are constantly in motion, on and off-ball. I can't imagine that this isn't something coached up by Groce...even in a drive and kick offense, you should be moving the ball in-and-out and swinging around the perimeter to find an opening to drive before you kick.

My question then is...WHY?
Is it coaching?
Is it because we've never had more than two go-to scorers on the floor (2013- Paul & DJ, 2014- Ray & Tracy, 2015- Rice & Nunn, Hill & Nunn)?
Is it because we always have at least one guy who is a total non-factor on offense?
Is it because we've had a lead guard with sticky fingers every year (Paul, Ray, Ray, Hill?)

This 2016 team is one of the best passing Illini teams I've seen in a decade. Hill & Nunn are certainly +, if not ++, passers, and even one of our posts is a ++ passer. When guys move off the ball, they find them and put them in a great position for a bucket.

Any theories?
 
#899      
I'm not sure why people think it's a good idea to bring on Dee as a brand-new HC with 0 experience. Powell's a different matter.
 
#900      
The thing that has ALWAYS bothered me about Groce offenses is the anemic off-ball movement.

Watching Indiana, MSU, and Maryland play Illinois is night and day. The best offenses are constantly in motion, on and off-ball. I can't imagine that this isn't something coached up by Groce...even in a drive and kick offense, you should be moving the ball in-and-out and swinging around the perimeter to find an opening to drive before you kick.

My question then is...WHY?
Is it coaching?
Is it because we've never had more than two go-to scorers on the floor (2013- Paul & DJ, 2014- Ray & Tracy, 2015- Rice & Nunn, Hill & Nunn)?
Is it because we always have at least one guy who is a total non-factor on offense?
Is it because we've had a lead guard with sticky fingers every year (Paul, Ray, Ray, Hill?)

This 2016 team is one of the best passing Illini teams I've seen in a decade. Hill & Nunn are certainly +, if not ++, passers, and even one of our posts is a ++ passer. When guys move off the ball, they find them and put them in a great position for a bucket.

Any theories?
I don't have a theory on why there is weak off ball movement but share your frustration. I did see KN in Nebraska make a nice quick inside juke move against Nebraska that freed him up for a 3p catch and shoot.

Watching curry ' s off ball movement is a thing of beauty. Dude turns his motor on when he doesn't have the ball....

Would love to see us improve in that area.
 
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