2017 Coaching Carousel

[joe4304]

What is the advantage to firing him before the team plays its' final post-season game? You strike me as one of the savviest posters on this forum, but I do not follow you here. Is there some coach we can get only by firing Groce before the season is completely kaput?

Short of doing something to embarrass the UI, there is no reason to let him go until the season is over. And winning the NIT is meaningless because you're not going to beat anybody in the top 40-50 along the way.

Palm said Illini need to win the BTT to get to the NCAA. It's possible 9-9 plus a couple wins in BTT might do it, but that's Groce's only hope in my opinion.

 

[Illini_1979]

I think that John Groce is a Josh Whitman "type of guy." An enthusiastic, go-getter type of guy. I imagine that it would be a very difficult (emotional) decision for JW to let JG go at the end of this year. I think that JW really wants to give JG every chance to succeed (and maybe he has already done that).

But, that said, what if JG made some substantial changes to the assistant coaches at the end of the year and brought in someone who could help with the X's and O's? Would that be enough to save his job?

 

[Deleted member 626650]

What is the advantage to firing him before the team plays its' final post-season game? You strike me as one of the savviest posters on this forum, but I do not follow you here. Is there some coach we can get only by firing Groce before the season is completely kaput?

Long time lurker, I think what Fatgreg was saying is that if you don't believe Groce to be the long-term solution, why give him an opportunity to keep a job he hasn't succeeded at by having a miracle run.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

What is the advantage to firing him before the team plays its' final post-season game? You strike me as one of the savviest posters on this forum, but I do not follow you here. Is there some coach we can get only by firing Groce before the season is completely kaput?

I don't know that you need to fire him before the BTT, but I would think if you've decided to move on, you'd make that public prior to any NIT games if we made that tournament. You don't want to waste time waiting for a meaningless post season while other programs like NCSU and others are starting to talk to candidates.

But, that said, what if JG made some substantial changes to the assistant coaches at the end of the year and brought in someone who could help with the X's and O's? Would that be enough to save his job?

No

 

[FatGreg]

What is the advantage to firing him before the team plays its' final post-season game? You strike me as one of the savviest posters on this forum, but I do not follow you here. Is there some coach we can get only by firing Groce before the season is completely kaput?

My sense is that there could be some pushback from players, recruits, a few fans, and potentially Groce's allies in the administration and coaching community if he was fired after making a big push to finish the year with 24-25 wins and deep runs in both the BTT and NIT. Not a huge deal, though. A few people might say, "he deserves another year," but JW would take recourse to, "we expect to be in the NCAA tournament perennially unless there are considerable mitigating factors." For me, releasing him before the NIT (in the event that he finishes 9-9 in the B1G and wins a couple of BTT games) is more about getting out in front of the coaching search and communicating a plan quickly to recruits that may request a release. Outwardly a statement of purpose and internally an organizational reset.

However, if Groce finishes at 8-10 or worse, I'd personally want to let him go before the BTT because the auto bid would then be the only scenario where UI would make the NCAA tourney. In that case, I'd want to eliminate the potential mess (from my perspective) that could come if Groce won the BTT and won a game in the NCAA. You'd suddenly be looking at a 23-win team that won a conference tournament championship, won a tournament game, and had a top-15 recruiting class on the way. I think it would be very hard to let Groce go at that point, but I'm already convinced he's not the right man for the job - I don't want a lucky run to save him (and probably necessitate an extension).

My vantage point is this: another losing season in conference play coupled with the impossibility of an at-large bid (i.e. entering the BTT off the bubble completely) is automatic grounds for termination. I wouldn't want an anomalous winning streak to create tricky dynamics, so I'd bounce Groce right away and bring the coaching search out of stealth mode. However, if Groce somehow finishes 9-9 in conference, wins 2+ games in the BTT, makes the NCAA tournament, and wins a game there...well, he gets extended. Fair is fair.

This is just an academic exercise - I'm confident we'll lose a game between now and the second round of the BTT and Whitman's decision will be made for him. Just thinking about different improbable scenarios.

 

[FatGreg]

And all that said, Whitman seems to genuinely like Groce and believe in his leadership style. I'd personally want to let him go if he finished 7-11 or 8-10 but won the BTT and backed into the NCAAT, but Whitman might be thrilled to have a valid reason to keep him around. It all comes down to what Whitman really thinks about Groce's ultimate potential. Either way, 0.1% chance it ends up being a difficult, controversial decision. Lose 1 more and fail to win the BTT and that's all she wrote.

 

[MadSeason]

Palm said Illini need to win the BTT to get to the NCAA. It's possible 9-9 plus a couple wins in BTT might do it, but that's Groce's only hope in my opinion.

I guess it depends on who those wins in BTT are against. Win the last 4 and get 2 in Big Ten that is likely to add 3 more top 50 wins. I think we would be in at that point.

 

[whovous]

If he wins the BTT, I want him to stay, period. That is how things work in my academic exercise world.

 

[Adnarel]

But, that said, what if JG made some substantial changes to the assistant coaches at the end of the year and brought in someone who could help with the X's and O's? Would that be enough to save his job?

That's been brought up a couple of times (including by myself). I think it's a testament to how likeable Groce is that people would still be trying to think of ways for him to be retained and flourish at this school. No matter how jaded the mood can get in this thread, we probably all miss JFG at least a little bit.

But yeah, he gawn. >_>

 

[whovous]

I guess it depends on who those wins in BTT are against. Win the last 4 and get 2 in Big Ten that is likely to add 3 more top 50 wins. I think we would be in at that point.

I dunno. If we get a seven way tie at 9-9, there is a chance our first game will be against someone from the Wednesday pool and there is even a chance our second game would not be against someone from the top three. My gut tells me 9-9 and two tourney wins gets us into bubble talk with a chance at the dance, but not definitely in.

Again, an academic exercise if the current one game win streak ends at a number smaller than seven.

 

[MadSeason]

I dunno. If we get a seven way tie at 9-9, there is a chance our first game will be against someone from the Wednesday pool and there is even a chance our second game would not be against someone from the top three. My gut tells me 9-9 and two tourney wins gets us into bubble talk with a chance at the dance, but not definitely in.

Again, an academic exercise if the current one game win streak ends at a number smaller than seven.

Agreed. Based on what we have seen, there is very little to suggest we can win the next 4, let alone next 6. Hard to believe we still have the faintest of hopes but that VCU win looks really good and we played a good OOC schedule

 

[FatGreg]

That's been brought up a couple of times (including by myself). I think it's a testament to how likeable Groce is that people would still be trying to think of ways for him to be retained and flourish at this school. No matter how jaded the mood can get in this thread, we probably all miss JFG at least a little bit.

But yeah, he gawn. >_>

For sure. If nothing else, he's a good dude. One of the most likable coaches around. I also think he's got room to grow as a coach and may reemerge down the road as a competent P5 coach - he's still relatively young and he's smart. By all accounts a basketball junkie - just needs to learn to teach better and make better strategic adjustments. In the meantime, I think he'd kill it at someplace like Cleveland State, Indiana State, maybe Miami-OH - all jobs that could open up this year or next.

 

[dweebs19]

look, I'd be ok with Groce coming back if he wins a game in the NCAA Tournament, and brings in a new coach to help him. The chances of this happening are slim to none though.

 

[FiveStar]

My sense is that there could be some pushback from players, recruits, a few fans, and potentially Groce's allies in the administration and coaching community if he was fired after making a big push to finish the year with 24-25 wins and deep runs in both the BTT and NIT. Not a huge deal, though. A few people might say, "he deserves another year," but JW would take recourse to, "we expect to be in the NCAA tournament perennially unless there are considerable mitigating factors." For me, releasing him before the NIT (in the event that he finishes 9-9 in the B1G and wins a couple of BTT games) is more about getting out in front of the coaching search and communicating a plan quickly to recruits that may request a release. Outwardly a statement of purpose and internally an organizational reset.

However, if Groce finishes at 8-10 or worse, I'd personally want to let him go before the BTT because the auto bid would then be the only scenario where UI would make the NCAA tourney. In that case, I'd want to eliminate the potential mess (from my perspective) that could come if Groce won the BTT and won a game in the NCAA. You'd suddenly be looking at a 23-win team that won a conference tournament championship, won a tournament game, and had a top-15 recruiting class on the way. I think it would be very hard to let Groce go at that point, but I'm already convinced he's not the right man for the job - I don't want a lucky run to save him (and probably necessitate an extension).

My vantage point is this: another losing season in conference play coupled with the impossibility of an at-large bid (i.e. entering the BTT off the bubble completely) is automatic grounds for termination. I wouldn't want an anomalous winning streak to create tricky dynamics, so I'd bounce Groce right away and bring the coaching search out of stealth mode. However, if Groce somehow finishes 9-9 in conference, wins 2+ games in the BTT, makes the NCAA tournament, and wins a game there...well, he gets extended. Fair is fair.

This is just an academic exercise - I'm confident we'll lose a game between now and the second round of the BTT and Whitman's decision will be made for him. Just thinking about different improbable scenarios.

I essentially said the same thing a couple weeks ago. Lots of people on this board didn't like it. I hear you.

 

[cam]

I think that John Groce is a Josh Whitman "type of guy." An enthusiastic, go-getter type of guy. I imagine that it would be a very difficult (emotional) decision for JW to let JG go at the end of this year. I think that JW really wants to give JG every chance to succeed (and maybe he has already done that).

But, that said, what if JG made some substantial changes to the assistant coaches at the end of the year and brought in someone who could help with the X's and O's? Would that be enough to save his job?

I would be fine with keeping Groce if he made staff changes . He has the top class in the conference, so his recruiting is strong with no success to show recruits. I think an Xs and Os guy could help and I would be fine with that. I really believe the problems of no point guard have now been fixed and we are on our way. Tate and Abrams even though I like them both have just not given us anything this year and JCL has had a rough year shooting, only the last 6 or 7 games with the emergence of Lucas have we had any guard play at all and that's why we are 5-9. I do think he will probably be let go . Quality guy

 

[Deleted member 16068]

I would be fine with keeping Groce if he made staff changes . He has the top class in the conference, so his recruiting is strong with no success to show recruits. I think an Xs and Os guy could help and I would be fine with that. I really believe the problems of no point guard have now been fixed and we are on our way. Tate and Abrams even though I like them both have just not given us anything this year and JCL has had a rough year shooting, only the last 6 or 7 games with the emergence of Lucas have we had any guard play at all and that's why we are 5-9. I do think he will probably be let go . Quality guy

I agree that he seems like a genuinely nice guy. However, he's proven over and over that he is not a good coach with X's and O's. We need a different direction

 

[Illini_1979]

For sure. If nothing else, he's a good dude. One of the most likable coaches around. I also think he's got room to grow as a coach and may reemerge down the road as a competent P5 coach - he's still relatively young and he's smart. By all accounts a basketball junkie - just needs to learn to teach better and make better strategic adjustments. In the meantime, I think he'd kill it at someplace like Cleveland State, Indiana State, maybe Miami-OH - all jobs that could open up this year or next.

This is my thinking -- that he is a young coach who is learning on the job -- certainly not as fast as we all would like. But, from a selfish point of view I would hate to see him let go and then become successful somewhere else. I would be happy for him and his success but sad for what could have been at UI. I would not be surprised if JW keeps him around another year to see how this recruiting class plays out.

 

[dmac279]

look, I'd be ok with Groce coming back if he wins a game in the NCAA Tournament, and brings in a new coach to help him. The chances of this happening are slim to none though.

Imo, that was Groces biggest mistake not getting a Xs and Os guy. Admire his loyalty, but it's going to cost his job.

 

[IlliniOllie]

I think that John Groce is a Josh Whitman "type of guy." An enthusiastic, go-getter type of guy. I imagine that it would be a very difficult (emotional) decision for JW to let JG go at the end of this year. I think that JW really wants to give JG every chance to succeed (and maybe he has already done that).

But, that said, what if JG made some substantial changes to the assistant coaches at the end of the year and brought in someone who could help with the X's and O's? Would that be enough to save his job?

Ah, the Ron Zook plan. This guy can't coach, so let's bring in someone to help him do it.

No. Changing assistants is just rearranging the deck chairs. Find someone who can both recruit and coach. This is a major-conference basketball head coaching job. We should be able to find someone who can do both.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

Poll: If Thad Matta is let go by OSU, scoop him up or pass? Where do you place him compared to our other candidates?

 

[Deleted member 11241]

Poll: If Thad Matta is let go by OSU, scoop him up or pass? Where do you place him compared to our other candidates?

If anything Thad would be retiring. He has health issues that stemmed from a botched back surgery. Don't see him ever coaching again once he steps away

 

[ole 99]

But, that said, what if JG made some substantial changes to the assistant coaches at the end of the year and brought in someone who could help with the X's and O's? Would that be enough to save his job?

No

 

[IlliniForTheWin]

John Groce and his staff are all but gone. The players know it, the fans know it, the staff knows it. He is basically coaching on pride at this point. Although he genuinely cares about the players, he might be to the point of thinking about his next job. The more wins he can accumulate at the end of the season, the better his potential job prospects may be. I think 90% of the fan base has supported Groce and loved the hire, especially after the first season. Now we may be at the exact opposite of opinion, with 90% wanting him gone and with good reason.

 

[PostersLastStand]

Watched Kansas and Baylor play, I've changed my mind, get Drew. That's a splash! I've jumped off the he's dirty bandwagon. Maybe, he's guilty by association. He recruits very well, he can't seem get Bill Self's number. Not many have.Time for Big Twelve to send us one of their coaches instead of vise versa.

 

[helppitch]

Watched Kansas and Baylor play, I've changed my mind, get Drew. That's a splash! I've jumped off the he's dirty bandwagon. Maybe, he's guilty by association. He recruits very well, he can't seem get Bill Self's number. Not many have.Time for Big Twelve to send us one of their coaches instead of vise versa.

If he is willing, I'd be all for it.