New Mexico State 74, Illinois 69 POSTGAME

[Ransom Stoddard]

Yep, the last ten years of Guenther were where Illinois FB and BB started their slide. Mike Thomas just made sure it continued...and at an accelerated rate.

Between former ADs and HCs, I'm convinced you would not have done any worse if you had chosen them (or chosen to retain them past their useful life date) by simply throwing darts or turning name cards. To think these people were the best available would be laughable if it wasn't just so downright sad. I think we will be fine in BB but it will take a couple of years. Football? My personal favorite but am not sure we will ever see even Mackovic/White-type of success in the next decade with the current staff. It think it might take an SEC-type hire (big $$$$$) if we are to ever get back and dont see us doing that.

Proven coaches worth that type of money aren't going to jump to a decimated program like UIUC--that's why an incremental improvement is necessary. I still think Lovie can get us to that point in FB, and I've no reason to believe Underwood can't turn this thing around in hoops, but it takes more than 13 games to demonstrate the potential for that leap.

But for everyone out on the ledge, or those that have already leapt, here's why I'm staying calm--

In our 5 losses, none were by over 7 points. Average margin of loss in those 5 games was 4.8. That is a massive improvement over the last few years in my book. Would I prefer to see these guys be able to finish close games better--of course, but they're playing hard and playing to win. There are things that must be better (slow first halves, turnovers, dumb decisions), but we're competing in every.single.game. Other than the 1st half against NMSU, I've enjoyed watching this team play, even in defeat. I couldn't say that during a couple of Groce seasons, and definitely not during the last 4-5 years of Weber-ball.

Our adjusted tempo is significantly better than last year, defense--despite some obvious holes) is improved, and offensive rebounding is incredible right now.

3 point shooting, interior defense, 3 point defense, and fouls are what's hurting us, along with the aforementioned stupid mistakes. None of those things are likely to improve against B1G competition, but hopefully we see better decisions made in passing and the physical side of things as the season goes on.

Per KenPom we are the 307th least experienced team out of 351 but use our bench more than all but 7 other teams. The combination of those 2 things makes me think we could be even worse than we are, but we should be see improvement throughout the year, and definitely next year.

 

[Jack Ingram Ball Screen]

I hope moving forward we adjust the starting lineup. Frazier, Smith, Jordan, Kipper, and Black. Williams, Finke, Alstork, Lucas, and Ebo off the bench. I think it is becoming clear that Finke and Alstork, and Lucas can't start moving forward.

 

[bert1991]

:thumb:

Sometimes I wonder if some people just wake up with poo in their shoes everyday or if they were just born a certain way

 

[bert1991]

I agree that Smith should be running the point. But, coming off the bench and probably not in crunch time just yet. Trent and Te'jon seem to be playing a little quicker and with more confidence. Smith's time will come. Hope he gets more time with the ball in his hands.

Nah, I don't agree with you two. I like Smith as an off gaurd. He is a great catch and shoot guy - very quick release. Trent and Te'jon are much better ball handlers and can push the offense. Just because he isn't playing point, doesn't mean he can't drive to the hoop or make his teammates better with some slick passing.

 

[Obelix]

But the talent we have is good enough to regularly finish middle of the pack in the B1G and be a 6-10 seed in the tournament.

I do not really believe that, and the fact that we have gone through 3 totally different coaches with different personalities and identities supports that disagreement. Illinois fans believe that, but the rest of college basketball does not see it. I do not believe that basketball analysts are psychologists or experts in analyzing culture, identity, and buy-in.

When college analysts projected Illinois low this year, it is not because they thought that Illini players will not buy-in into Underwood, or they will be slow to adapt, or they do not have the right culture. And it is not that they do not believe that Underwood is a good coach either, there were multiple articles (more than I had ever expected) praising Underwood and the hiring as one of the best (if not the best) in college basketball this off-season.

When pretty much every analyst has Illinois very low, whereas more than 70% of Illini fans predict Illinois will make the tournament (pre-season) and argue that analysts are pretty much wrong, that should tell us something.

 

[FeelYourPaign]

Aaron Jordan is our only reliable 3 point shooter. He attempted 2 last night.

True. But I've been really impressed with AJ all year because if the shot isn't the best one that he can get, he doesn't take it. He passes to someone that might get a better shot or trusts that the ball will come back to him with a more open look. He's been really patient, playing within himself and forcing only for shot clock reasons. Some of the "only two shots" is on AJ. . . But in a good way because of his selectiveness. As I said, very impressive

 

[bert1991]

Proven coaches worth that type of money aren't going to jump to a decimated program like UIUC--that's why an incremental improvement is necessary. I still think Lovie can get us to that point in FB, and I've no reason to believe Underwood can't turn this thing around in hoops, but it takes more than 13 games to demonstrate the potential for that leap.

But for everyone out on the ledge, or those that have already leapt, here's why I'm staying calm--

In our 5 losses, none were by over 7 points. Average margin of loss in those 5 games was 4.8. That is a massive improvement over the last few years in my book. Would I prefer to see these guys be able to finish close games better--of course, but they're playing hard and playing to win. There are things that must be better (slow first halves, turnovers, dumb decisions), but we're competing in every.single.game. Other than the 1st half against NMSU, I've enjoyed watching this team play, even in defeat. I couldn't say that during a couple of Groce seasons, and definitely not during the last 4-5 years of Weber-ball.

Our adjusted tempo is significantly better than last year, defense--despite some obvious holes) is improved, and offensive rebounding is incredible right now.

3 point shooting, interior defense, 3 point defense, and fouls are what's hurting us, along with the aforementioned stupid mistakes. None of those things are likely to improve against B1G competition, but hopefully we see better decisions made in passing and the physical side of things as the season goes on.

Per KenPom we are the 307th least experienced team out of 351 but use our bench more than all but 7 other teams. The combination of those 2 things makes me think we could be even worse than we are, but we should be see improvement throughout the year, and definitely next year.

Thank you for posting this. I'm right there with you.

 

[FeelYourPaign]

Agreed. And expectations. People expected Underwood to wave his magic wand and we would be in the tourney.

I'm enjoying watching games again and like the future of our program. It's clear this is an exciting style of play.

Agree with you and several others who said im enjoying the games again. Not as much joy as winning, sure, but it's still a lot better. I'll be here all year

 

[Begreatallthetime23]

Nah, I don't agree with you two. I like Smith as an off gaurd. He is a great catch and shoot guy - very quick release. Trent and Te'jon are much better ball handlers and can push the offense. Just because he isn't playing point, doesn't mean he can't drive to the hoop or make his teammates better with some slick passing.

That is true but the Maryland,NW, UNLV games Frazier and Lucas had major TOs under their belts at crunch time...but time will tell

 

[Second and Chalmers]

if you erase like 6 bad plays

Is that you, Beckman?

:hail:

 

[illiniwil]

im sorry guys, but if Finke stood up and played like he is expected, come back to passes instead of letting the pass get stolen, make a few shots, make a two dribble move that clears himself for a shot, (because right now they know when he gets the ball he has no dribble move) and make a hard back door cut we would have a team capable of winning a few games. i think i saw Underwood look at Finke during the last time out with a tie and ball out of bounds under the basket and ask him if he was ready to make a shot. As soon as kipper is well we might just sit Finke for what he's giving us.

 

[Illiniguy13]

I try not to point fingers, but we just don't have a chance when Finke & Alstork don't show up.

 

[TCTORNADO]

I try not to point fingers, but we just don't have a chance when Finke & Alstork don't show up.

3 starters (Smith, Alstork & Finke) did not score in the 2nd half of the NMSU game.

 

[Deleted member 631370]

3 starters (Smith, Alstork & Finke) did not score in the 2nd half of the NMSU game.

Those 3, in my opinion, were the 3 keys to this season. We really needed:

(1) Mark Smith living up to the hype and providing us that dynamic scorer
(2) Mark Alstork giving us that multi-dimensional scoring option and experience
(3) Mike Finke holding his own in the paint

When none of those 3 occur, we are in for a rough ride. We absolutely cannot afford all 3 to underperform. We are sunk if that's the case.

The good news is that Jordan has surprised, and Trent Frazier is progressing very well. But that's just not enough at this point.

 

[whovous]

3 starters (Smith, Alstork & Finke) did not score in the 2nd half of the NMSU game.

Alstork only played four minutes of the second half.

 

[Begreatallthetime23]

Those 3, in my opinion, were the 3 keys to this season. We really needed:

(1) Mark Smith living up to the hype and providing us that dynamic scorer
(2) Mark Alstork giving us that multi-dimensional scoring option and experience
(3) Mike Finke holding his own in the paint
(4) The good news is that Jordan has surprised

(1) If the stat sheets are correct there hasn't been a game up to this point where Smith has taken more than 10 attempts in a game. He has been to the FT line. Smith has not had a lot of touches in the 2nd half. This offense is designed for the PG and the first receiver and TJL goes to Alstork's side to start the offense 90% of the time.
(2) Alstork has had some pocket games and no offense to MA he's a good player and has done alot of different things (defense, rebounds and play hard) to contribute to this team.
(3) Finke has to be better in the paint yes but he's a true stretch 4 and playing the 5 is not his strong suit as much as we need him down there he's better served as a stretch 4. He plays hard and works hard.
(4) Jordan has been solid and is shooting at a high level whenever he touches the ball. I think Trent is playing great but I would've love to see him attack the basket and kick out to Jordan for a potential game tying 3. Or see Smith try to get to the lane to finish and get an And 1

 

[Future Walk-On]

NMSU is better than us on paper and I am not surprised they won, but I find it really embarrassing to lose any games in Chicago. The last thing we need. One of NMSU's better teams they will ever have.

This is what happens when you have 5 seniors on a team vs. 1 (who has only been around for 6 months)

1. Alstork isn't as close to the scorer at this level as we hoped for. (worse FG% than Smith)
2. 265th in turnovers
3. 327th in blocks (therefore not altering shots because we have no size)

 

[TCTORNADO]

NMSU is better than us on paper and I am not surprised they won, but I find it really embarrassing to lose any games in Chicago. The last thing we need. One of NMSU's better teams they will ever have.

This is what happens when you have 5 seniors on a team vs. 1 (who has only been around for 6 months)

1. Alstork isn't as close to the scorer at this level as we hoped for. (worse FG% than Smith)
2. 265th in turnovers
3. 327th in blocks (therefore not altering shots because we have no size)

NMSU has been the better program the last decade!!

 

[Combo]

NMSU has been the better program the last decade!!

Which is a disgrace.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

NMSU has been the better program the last decade!!

Per Kenpom

2018: Illinois 96 NMSU 92
2017: Illinois 66 NMSU 84
2016: Illinois 125 NMSU 111
2015: Illinois 61 NMSU 98
2014: Illinois 53 NMSU 72
2013: Illinois 39 NMSU 88

You get the point. They've won more games and made more NCAA appearances. They have not been the better program. Which further reveals the total incoherence of this:

NMSU is better than us on paper

The 5.5 point Vegas spread, among many other things, begs to differ.

The lengths people are going to to deny that we are woefully underperforming are truly remarkable.

It's okay guys. "We are woefully underperforming" and "FIRE UNDERWOOD" are not the same thing. They bear very little relation to one another, as a matter of fact. Stop equating the two and ease your cognitive dissonance.

 

[MakesNoSense]

Per Kenpom

2018: Illinois 96 NMSU 92
2017: Illinois 66 NMSU 84
2016: Illinois 125 NMSU 111
2015: Illinois 61 NMSU 98
2014: Illinois 53 NMSU 72
2013: Illinois 39 NMSU 88

You get the point. They've won more games and made more NCAA appearances. They have not been the better program. Which further reveals the total incoherence of this:



The 5.5 point Vegas spread, among many other things, begs to differ.

The lengths people are going to to deny that we are woefully underperforming are truly remarkable.

It's okay guys. "We are woefully underperforming" and "FIRE UNDERWOOD" are not the same thing. They bear very little relation to one another, as a matter of fact. Stop equating the two and ease your cognitive dissonance.

So winning more games and making more tournament appearances doesn't make you a better program. Got it.

 

[Future Walk-On]

Per Kenpom

2018: Illinois 96 NMSU 92
2017: Illinois 66 NMSU 84
2016: Illinois 125 NMSU 111
2015: Illinois 61 NMSU 98
2014: Illinois 53 NMSU 72
2013: Illinois 39 NMSU 88

You get the point. They've won more games and made more NCAA appearances. They have not been the better program. Which further reveals the total incoherence of this:



The 5.5 point Vegas spread, among many other things, begs to differ.

The lengths people are going to to deny that we are woefully underperforming are truly remarkable.

It's okay guys. "We are woefully underperforming" and "FIRE UNDERWOOD" are not the same thing. They bear very little relation to one another, as a matter of fact. Stop equating the two and ease your cognitive dissonance.

Dude. You literally cite KenPom rankings to argue we have been better over the years, then call me incoherent for calling NMSU better on paper, when NMSU has a higher KP ranking.

I don’t understand.

A 5.5 Vegas line for a home team and a power 5 team vs a Mid Major is basically even.

You have some complex about being the smartest person in the room? You are probably real fun to watch sports with.

 

[Illiniguy13]

Per Kenpom

2018: Illinois 96 NMSU 92
2017: Illinois 66 NMSU 84
2016: Illinois 125 NMSU 111
2015: Illinois 61 NMSU 98
2014: Illinois 53 NMSU 72
2013: Illinois 39 NMSU 88

You get the point. They've won more games and made more NCAA appearances. They have not been the better program. Which further reveals the total incoherence of this:



The 5.5 point Vegas spread, among many other things, begs to differ.

The lengths people are going to to deny that we are woefully underperforming are truly remarkable.

It's okay guys. "We are woefully underperforming" and "FIRE UNDERWOOD" are not the same thing. They bear very little relation to one another, as a matter of fact. Stop equating the two and ease your cognitive dissonance.

Not so sure this post is all that coherent, either. The lengths you go to ensure everyone is aware you feel we're "woefully underperforming" are pretty remarkable as well.

 

[blmillini]

Per Kenpom

2018: Illinois 96 NMSU 92
2017: Illinois 66 NMSU 84
2016: Illinois 125 NMSU 111
2015: Illinois 61 NMSU 98
2014: Illinois 53 NMSU 72
2013: Illinois 39 NMSU 88

You get the point. They've won more games and made more NCAA appearances. They have not been the better program. Which further reveals the total incoherence of this:



The 5.5 point Vegas spread, among many other things, begs to differ.

The lengths people are going to to deny that we are woefully underperforming are truly remarkable.

It's okay guys. "We are woefully underperforming" and "FIRE UNDERWOOD" are not the same thing. They bear very little relation to one another, as a matter of fact. Stop equating the two and ease your cognitive dissonance.

I'm not sure I agree that we are underperforming but can definitely appreciate the argument. In my mind there are 2 primary things driving our losses this year (1) turnovers and (2) lack of a front court presence, especially defensively. The first could definitely be considered underperforming but the second is clearly a talent issue.

 

[UIGrad03]

You have some complex about being the smartest person in the room? You are probably real fun to watch sports with.

In a lot of fora, being a long-winded and pedantic (albeit insightful) contrarian is somewhat self-limiting simply due to time constraints and/or a declining willingness of others to engage. Two things that seem to be in endless supply here.

All in good fun, of course.