Illini Football 2018

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#26      

BananaShampoo

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Captain 'Paign
Phoenix, AZ
BananaShampoo
bobbob said:
Freshman plus one year are still just sophomores.

We're still fielding a Fresh/Soph team against varsity teams. It is not a recipe for winning.

I agree - the goal is to not get blown out (tOSU game excepted).
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Good thing we don't play tOSU this year. :thumb: I think Wiscy and maybe Nebby or Iowa should be our only big losses this season.
 
#27      

bigtiz54

B
Chicago
bigtiz54
Some of the Trinity recruits have been quoted saying they need to see on field improvement this season. What does that constitute? 4 wins? 5 wins? Close losses? I'm expecting 4 wins this year, maybe 5 with no true blowouts.
 
#28      

Deleted member 654622

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bigtiz54 said:
Some of the Trinity recruits have been quoted saying they need to see on field improvement this season. What does that constitute? 4 wins? 5 wins? Close losses? I'm expecting 4 wins this year, maybe 5 with no true blowouts.
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I believe Shammond said 5 wins specifically.
 
#29      

thunderwear

thunderwear
thunderwear
Dude said:
I believe Shammond said 5 wins specifically.
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Yes, Shammond said 5-wins. Personally, I think that the decision will be made regardless of on-field wins. From my meaningless observation, I think Oklahoma is in the lead right now.
 
#31      

bigtiz54

B
Chicago
bigtiz54
Having the Soldier Field game at 2:30 vs 11 am is huge. Attendance at this could still be low but an afternoon kickoff should help us get some more fans in there. I also like the Purdue afternoon start. 2 sub-par Big ten teams could've easily ended up with an 11 am start. Hopefully we'll see fewer and fewer 11 am kicks.
 
#33      

MadSeason

MadSeason
MadSeason
chief2007 said:
Other Big 10 teams recruits which were higher ranked coming in are also getting bigger and stronger. Look how many freshman played key roles for Alabama on a National championship team. Need to start seeing results.
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Roles not basically the entire makeup of the team. It helps the Alabama Freshman when they are surrounded by 12 NFL draft picks including 4 1st rounders.
 
#34      

chief2007

C
chief2007
MadSeason said:
Roles not basically the entire makeup of the team. It helps the Alabama Freshman when they are surrounded by 12 NFL draft picks including 4 1st rounders.
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The freshman still had to perform and beat out upper classman. The point was you can have freshman play key roles even on great teams.
 
#35      

MadSeason

MadSeason
MadSeason
chief2007 said:
The freshman still had to perform and beat out upper classman. The point was you can have freshman play key roles even on great teams.
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The clear implication was that youth is no excuse and teams can win with Freshman ie Alabama.

Illinois had Freshman that beat out upperclassmen as well but those guys weren't surrounded by upper class All-American-NFL talent. They were surrounded by other Freshman. Youth was an excuse last year and there is no way around that. I agree that Lovie needs to start putting W's on the board but acting like the lack of W's last indicates anything about the rebuild is silly imo.
 
#36      

IlliniJim20

I
IlliniJim20
MadSeason said:
The clear implication was that youth is no excuse and teams can win with Freshman ie Alabama.

Illinois had Freshman that beat out upperclassmen as well but those guys weren't surrounded by upper class All-American-NFL talent. They were surrounded by other Freshman. Youth was an excuse last year and there is no way around that. I agree that Lovie needs to start putting W's on the board but acting like the lack of W's last indicates anything about the rebuild is silly imo.
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Alabama is putting Five Star freshmen talent next to Five Star, top NFL draft picks to be talent.

We are putting two/three star freshmen talent next to toe/three star sophomore talent ans some three star upper class talent.

Big difference.

Youth can definitely be an excuse.
 
#38      

Deleted member 654622

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Deleted member 654622
I'm not sure who is arguing what. But Alabama had the no. 1 recruiting class like 5 years in a row. If you wanna make a point pertaining to IL, dont use Alabama as an example. They are in different worlds
 
#39      

chief2007

C
chief2007
IlliniJim20 said:
Alabama is putting Five Star freshmen talent next to Five Star, top NFL draft picks to be talent.

We are putting two/three star freshmen talent next to toe/three star sophomore talent ans some three star upper class talent.

Big difference.

Youth can definitely be an excuse.
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Again that is the point. Illinois has 2-3 star athletes improving while other big ten teams have 4-5 star athletes improving. Just because Illinois players are improving does not mean the team will improve since the better talent in the Big10 is also improving.

Youth is not an excuse - recruiting at a lower level could be an excuse.
 
#40      

MadSeason

MadSeason
MadSeason
chief2007 said:
Again that is the point. Illinois has 2-3 star athletes improving while other big ten teams have 4-5 star athletes improving. Just because Illinois players are improving does not mean the team will improve since the better talent in the Big10 is also improving.

Youth is not an excuse - recruiting at a lower level could be an excuse.
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Several of this 2 or 3 star players received post season all conference honors for Freshman indicating that they can play at a high high level in the Big 10.

That Epstein averaged 6.1 ypc behind a mostly Freshman Offensive Line is at least as impressive to me as J.K. Dobbins averaging 7.7 behind the OSU line. Same with Dorsey and Smalling having the years they did with inconsistent QB play.

These guys and others have performed at a high enough level now that whatever their rankings were are fairly irrelevant.

Trying to evaluate this team's future based on the wins and losses of last year seems fairly absurd to me given the youth.
 
#41      

NScale

N
NScale
One thing going for us is addition by subtraction at the QB position. We were either giving the ball away or being stymied on 3rd down every game.
 
#42      

Deleted member 654622

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NScale said:
One thing going for us is addition by subtraction at the QB position. We were either giving the ball away or being stymied on 3rd down every game.
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I'm looking forward to seeing this new offense with HOPEFULLY competent QB play.

Really got to beat Minnesota. That would be HUGE
 
#43      

illini80

illini80
Forgottonia
illini80
NScale said:
One thing going for us is addition by subtraction at the QB position. We were either giving the ball away or being stymied on 3rd down every game.
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I hope so, but that is our big unknown.
 
#44      

Illiini

Illiini
In the land of the Nittany Lion
Illiini
illini80 said:
I hope so, but that is our big unknown.
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And that defines 2018 Illini football: Hope...and a big unknown.

giphy.gif
 
#46      

chief2007

C
chief2007
MadSeason said:
Several of this 2 or 3 star players received post season all conference honors for Freshman indicating that they can play at a high high level in the Big 10.

That Epstein averaged 6.1 ypc behind a mostly Freshman Offensive Line is at least as impressive to me as J.K. Dobbins averaging 7.7 behind the OSU line. Same with Dorsey and Smalling having the years they did with inconsistent QB play.

These guys and others have performed at a high enough level now that whatever their rankings were are fairly irrelevant.

Trying to evaluate this team's future based on the wins and losses of last year seems fairly absurd to me given the youth.
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If freshman and sophomores are your best players then you you can base the teams future off wins and losses. Maybe it is the coaching and schemes that are preventing the team from winning more.

Rankings are relevant for players. Wouldn't you be better off developing higher ranked players?

Bottom line is the team needs to start to win. College sports is not like pro sports in terms of rebuilding. College teams can turn things around much faster. Another 3 or 4 win season and Lovie is on the hot seat.
 
#47      

Joel Goodson

Joel Goodson
respect my decision™
Joel Goodson
chief2007 said:
If freshman and sophomores are your best players then you you can base the teams future off wins and losses. Maybe it is the coaching and schemes that are preventing the team from winning more.

Rankings are relevant for players. Wouldn't you be better off developing higher ranked players?

Bottom line is the team needs to start to win. College sports is not like pro sports in terms of rebuilding. College teams can turn things around much faster. Another 3 or 4 win season and Lovie is on the hot seat.
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Wrong. From some misguided fans, sure.
 
#48      

STLflyinIllini

S
STLflyinIllini
chief2007 said:
Bottom line is the team needs to start to win. College sports is not like pro sports in terms of rebuilding. College teams can turn things around much faster. Another 3 or 4 win season and Lovie is on the hot seat.
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I would argue that pro sports teams should have an easier time turning things around. With revenue sharing, all teams can offer the same type of money and have the same salary cap, so talent can be persuaded to come to a losing franchise. Worse teams also get better draft picks so in theory they have a better shot at landing superior prospects. College sports offer no incentives for losing. Teams with poor records have to persuade prospects to believe in a vision of a better future instead of forcing them to come play for them via the draft. Teams with better records also generally make more money so they are able to better update their stadiums, facilities etc.
Turnarounds are much harder in football as well, where you need 22 starts plus special teams players, not to mention depth at every position due to injuries. In basketball you can get away with only bringing a few great prospects in order to start a turnaround, because only 5 people play at a time, so each prospect has a much greater impact.
Lovie has a least a few more years to turn things around before his seat should even start to become warm. Look for on field improvement and player development this year. If that happens, I'm happy
 
#49      

Deleted member 654622

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Deleted member 654622
chief2007 said:
If freshman and sophomores are your best players then you you can base the teams future off wins and losses.
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No you cannot. Freshman and Sophomores, regardless of rankings, are still way underdeveloped compared to Redshirt Juniors and Seniors. There is a plethora of reasons why the NFL does not let them play in the league until they are older. This is one of the reasons.
This is especially significant when talking about the Offensive Line. If your getting great protection, and huge running lanes, then those young kids can succeed more often than not. But they still will have a harder time staying on the field when getting hit by someone with 30lbs of more muscle than them.

chief2007 said:
Rankings are relevant for players. Wouldn't you be better off developing higher ranked players?
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Of course. And by the opposite, if you are trying to develop lessor talented kids for 4+ years, it is going to put the program in a big hole. Here comes Lovie Smith's entrance

chief2007 said:
Bottom line is the team needs to start to win. College sports is not like pro sports in terms of rebuilding. College teams can turn things around much faster. Another 3 or 4 win season and Lovie is on the hot seat.
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Yes college teams can, but this isn't "turning things around". This is taking a team from the American Conference in terms of talent and throwing them in the B1G. THAT cannot be done quickly.

1. You have to get rid on anything/anyone that is not going to help you move forward and toward you goal. (certain players/coaches shown the door)
2. You have to have facilities on par with the rest of the league (currently under construction)
3. You have to recruit high in talent away from beaches and national championships to the middle of Illinois and struggle. Anyone who thinks this is going to be a fast process is unrealistic. We have landed some pretty good players here lately and are looking at getting a top 30 class in the country this year.

It is still 1 year early in the rebuild process. But they will keep showing improvement, then more high end recruits will buy end.


Sorry for the length
 
#50      

IlliniinIowa

I
IlliniinIowa
Got my Athlon college preview...and under coaches on the hot seat in the big ten, the entire panel voted for the same guy. Lovie Smith. Ugh....:tsk:
 
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