Illini Basketball 2018-2019

[Berg88]

So, a top 25ish recruiting class is "flailing blindly"? Really?

That rating is partially based on the size of the class, rather than it's overall quality. Additionally, while there do seem to be a few recruits that may be ready to come in and make an impact (one for sure), the ones that can play our position of greatest need are the lowest rated of the group.

The rankings exist in a vacuum to some degree. JCL was ranked around 40 I believe. He was a great get for Groce no doubt, and was part of a decent recruiting class of AJ and DJW. If you had taken him out of that class and replaced him with a 70-80 ranked point guard, the overall rank of that class would have gone down, but it almost certainly would have turned it into a better fit for the team. I'm excited that Tevian Jones is coming, but if you replaced him with a center of the same ranking (115ish), our top 25ish recruiting class, which wouldn't change in ranking, would be much more confidence inspiring.

 

[IlliniJim20]

I'll let the google internet do my defense....

sand·wich
ˈsanˌ(d)wiCH/Submit
noun
1.
an item of food consisting of two pieces of bread with meat, cheese, or other filling between them, eaten as a light meal.
"a ham sandwich"

An "open face sandwich" only works when there is another one put on top.

An "open face sandwich" is usually two pieces of bread, but with so much meat you cannot possibly "close" it, hence meeting the two bread criteria.

You can choose to close it if you like

 

[MC06]

Because we lost guys that would 100% assist us in our rebuild. Sure we got some talented freshman but in the end they are just that, freshman. It isn’t easy to recruit when you miss the tournament every year. Odds are we miss it again and will have to recruit through it. Not many championship rosters were built from where we are in 4 years. If you don’t think Ebo, Black, Smith or even Finke wouldn’t have been a benefit to our team this year and the following year then you just aren’t seeing clearly. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

The key to the long term rebuild was always going to be getting a solid foundational 2018 class that Underwood can implement his style with and then stacking good classes (don’t need to be great) with one or two impact players (by their second or third year in the program) in each successive year. The 2017 class was a take what you can get class. Trent Frazier was a nice bonus. We thought landing Mark Smith was a coup but he didn’t pan out. But you can’t blame Underwood for not filling it with the right guys given how little time he had. So I don’t see the defection of the three 2017 guys as catastrophic to the rebuild or expected trajectory. I like Te’Jon, but we’ve upgraded by adding Ayo and Feliz and his time would likely have been limited this year. Finke and Black would help the team this year, but that would mean less playing time for Kane and Bez and those wins would be irrelevant to 2019 recruiting for the most part. If the reason for the transfers is that players don’t like Underwood and this turns out to be a recurring pattern, then that’s a problem. But the loss of those players in and of itself does not mean much to the rebuild.

This is not to say that I think the rebuild necessarily will work. It could go either way. Despite having a full year to recruit 2018, we did end up with mostly spring commits that appear to have been backup plans. If Kane, Bez and Griffin are bad fits, in over their heads or end up transferring, then I’d say we’re in trouble. But if Ayo and Jones can be true difference makers by their sophomore and junior years respectively and the other 2018 guys actually are good system fits, then the pieces are in place to take some big strides forward in years three and four with the addition of just a couple of recruiting wins.

All of this is to say that I think the panic the last few days has been overblown. I don’t see last year’s results or the spring transfers as an indication one way or another as to whether Underwood is the guy or whether we’ll have another coaching search on our hands soon.

 

[illinitiger]

Figured it out. Ebo left because he was going to have to give up his no. to Ayo.

I doubt that would cause such a decision....but you never know.

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[Ga65]

If we still had Black and Ebo, where would your expectations be versus where we are now?

no.

No comparison in my mind. Ayo for Smith is huge defensively as well as offensively. Another year of experience for AJ, KN, and TF. More strength from the healing process for DaW. Jones for Alstork huge offensively and Ebo's defense vs Finke. Ebo's defense will be tougher to replace than Black's offense IMHO. Conclusion: Tournament qualification and upper BIG conference would be my expectation.

Do believe their is a huge upside difference in Kane/GBez over Ebo/Vesel. However they are needed now and ? Expectation.

 

[Calvin]

I am completely in agreement with this post. We had a dumpster fire for a roster. Those who left are not the guys who are going to bring us a championship. None. However, this new incoming class is going to be the start of something big. I have absolutely no idea why this concept is hard to understand .

IIRC, our AD is marketing "we will win". To be fair, he didn't say when, so he might have meant 2050 and just left it off for brevity. Still, that makes most fans believe you're not meeting expectations.

Also, you might call it a dumpster fire of a roster, but rankings and stars would disagree.

I personally didn't see how Underwood could fit several of those players into his system, but I believed he would make them fit somehow. Year 1 was a disappointment. There wasn't enough buy-in IMHO, and not enough time. I don't think anyone, Underwood included, realized how much of an uphill battle he was in for.

'We will hopefully not suck' is definitely a maybe for the near term. We will win is probably a year or two away. If we somehow land a ready-made big, our ceiling would go up, as Trent/Ayo/Kipper/AJ will be competitive at the BIG level. Otherwise, I think we have to watch, root, and be patient.

 

[Johnny Lawrence]

Spicey G visting UIC this week, his original destination.

Notice how all the transfers (save for MS) the fan base has been losing their minds about are all transferring down?

I understand that they could serve as temporary band aids on gaping holes but players Finke, Vessel or Spicy G might make the difference in a game or two but they aren't going to change the outcome of an entire season, i.e. tournament vs non-tournament.

 

[pruman91]

No one lost their mind over Vasel. So it's really just Ebo and Smith, and as you note Smith made a lateral. We actually don't know the situation with Ebo.

I disagree about Ebo's impact. He would offer very valuable minutes in the front court, starting or not.

All of our best teams had players that made valuable contributions who, if they had transferred, would not have had major offers. Ervin Small and Jack Ingram come to mind.

Ebo is not at the level of Small or Ingram.....JMHO

 

[TCTORNADO]

Ebo is not at the level of Small or Ingram.....JMHO

Big difference is that Small/Ingram both played on very, very good teams. Ebo was 10th man on one of the worst teams of all time.

 

[pruman91]

Big difference is that Small/Ingram both played on very, very good teams. Ebo was 10th man on one of the worst teams of all time.

i would agree with that , but based on production only ,it's no contest

 

[pruman91]

No contest? The numbers are about equal. What are you getting at?

Jack Ingram was a vital player on our best team ever......rebounded and hit big 3's to win some games...i don't see it as any contest who wins between jack and Ebo.....JMHO

 

[Love the Illini]

Ebo would have been a valuable player the next three years for us. If he developed could have possibly started as a junior or senior at the worst would have gave us minutes from a big off the bench something that every team needs

 

[Peoria Illini]

Weren't quite a few people on this board already relegating Ebo to the bench after about the first 10 games or so???

Some even had Samba starting right off the bat over Ebo.

Now that Ebo leaves, he's apparently more valuable than the week before.

Granted, I'm not happy he left, and thought he'd do well this year, but our fan base seems to rate absences higher than those that are here.

If Ebo is looking at UIC again, could be he feels more comfortable in a bigger city, compared with sleepy Chambana.

 

[Obelix]

Ebo would have been a valuable player the next three years for us. If he developed could have possibly started as a junior or senior at the worst would have gave us minutes from a big off the bench something that every team needs

Many fans on this same board expected Ebo to start next year. After Leron and Finke left, it is not that we have many options in our inside game.

 

[RIVERCITYCHIEF]

Jack Ingram was a vital player on our best team ever......rebounded and hit big 3's to win some games...i don't see it as any contest who wins between jack and Ebo.....JMHO

And your opinion is correct. Ebo was servicablea nd played to his strengths. I dont recall him making a shot outside of a few feet but he didn't take many. He played smart in that regard I know who I'd want at the line too.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Because we lost guys that would 100% assist us in our rebuild. Sure we got some talented freshman but in the end they are just that, freshman. It isn’t easy to recruit when you miss the tournament every year. Odds are we miss it again and will have to recruit through it. Not many championship rosters were built from where we are in 4 years. If you don’t think Ebo, Black, Smith or even Finke wouldn’t have been a benefit to our team this year and the following year then you just aren’t seeing clearly. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Well if Black and Finke had stayed this year, they would use up all of their eligibility, so I don't see how they could possibly help us the following year.
Pretty sure I'm seeing that clearly, BTW.

 

[Deleted member 186590]

IIRC, our AD is marketing "we will win". To be fair, he didn't say when, so he might have meant 2050 and just left it off for brevity. Still, that makes most fans believe you're not meeting expectations.

Also, you might call it a dumpster fire of a roster, but rankings and stars would disagree.

I personally didn't see how Underwood could fit several of those players into his system, but I believed he would make them fit somehow. Year 1 was a disappointment. There wasn't enough buy-in IMHO, and not enough time. I don't think anyone, Underwood included, realized how much of an uphill battle he was in for.

'We will hopefully not suck' is definitely a maybe for the near term. We will win is probably a year or two away. If we somehow land a ready-made big, our ceiling would go up, as Trent/Ayo/Kipper/AJ will be competitive at the BIG level. Otherwise, I think we have to watch, root, and be patient.

You're right, I think we got lawyered pretty good with that one! Saying we will win something at some undefined point in the future is an almost certain truth - win what exactly? A game? The big Ten? A National Championship?

 

[MadtownIllin]

You need the depth not only for the games but to practice against...that may be as big a factor in development as any...

 

[PtownIllini8]

Whitman is the real thing.

Underwood is having a bad time, so they push this announcement up to change the narrative and get some positive headlines.

And its not just playing the media game, the construction of the football facility, which was separated from the south end zone to dedicate the money to the team rather than luxury playgrounds for donors, is already underway.

Illinois sports is in worse shape than ever, but for a very refreshing change we have quality leadership in place to get to work fixing it.

Coach U has a top 25 rated in coming class, with a 5* PG who is having an impact on the US U18 team as the leading assist man and 6th in scoring, to lead the way and players at all 5 spots in the class. I agree with you about Whitman, but not about our basketball coach. Resets aren't always easy, but they are necessary.

 

[Dan]

Illinois will host East Tennessee State as part of its 2018-19 non-conference schedule, per a source. Game is set for December 15th in Champaign.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1006639847409442818


Full schedule typically released in early August. Here's the reported schedule so far-


Florida Atlantic at Illinois, TBD
Evansville at Illinois on Thu., Nov. 8th
Georgetown at Illinois (Gavitt Games) on Tue., Nov. 13th
Maui Invitational Nov. 19-21
Illinois at Notre Dame (B1G/ACC Challenge) on Tue., Nov 27th
2 Big Ten early games between Fri., Nov. 30th-Tue., Dec. 4th
UNLV at Illinois on Sat., Dec. 8th
East Tennessee State at Illinois on Sat., Dec. 15th
Illinois vs Missouri (Braggin' Rights in St. Louis) on Sat., Dec. 22nd


20-game B1G schedule rotation-

* 1 home B1G game to be played at the United Center in Chicago

HOME & AWAY
Indiana
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Ohio State
Penn State
Wisconsin

HOME ONLY
Michigan
Michigan State
Rutgers

AWAY ONLY
Iowa
Maryland (game reportedly to be played in NYC)
Purdue

 

[Second and Chalmers]

Illinois will host East Tennessee State as part of its 2018-19 non-conference schedule, per a source. Game is set for December 15th in Champaign.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1006639847409442818


Full schedule typically released in early August. Here's the reported schedule so far-


Florida Atlantic at Illinois, TBD
Evansville at Illinois on Thu., Nov. 8th
Georgetown at Illinois (Gavitt Games) on Tue., Nov. 13th
Maui Invitational Nov. 19-21
Illinois at Notre Dame (B1G/ACC Challenge) on Tue., Nov 27th
2 Big Ten early games between Fri., Nov. 30th-Tue., Dec. 4th
UNLV at Illinois on Sat., Dec. 8th
East Tennessee State at Illinois on Sat., Dec. 15th
Illinois vs Missouri (Braggin' Rights in St. Louis) on Sat., Dec. 22nd


20-game B1G schedule rotation-

* 1 home B1G game to be played at the United Center in Chicago

HOME & AWAY
Indiana
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Ohio State
Penn State
Wisconsin

HOME ONLY
Michigan
Michigan State
Rutgers

AWAY ONLY
Iowa
Maryland (game reportedly to be played in NYC)
Purdue

https://twitter.com/IlliniMBB/status/987043582061277184

We've gotta be getting there, right? That's 30 if I'm counting right. 1-2 more at most. Not many cupcakes this year, that's for sure.

 

[FiveStar]

We've gotta be getting there, right? That's 30 if I'm counting right. 1-2 more at most. Not many cupcakes this year, that's for sure.

That is a fantastic schedule.

 

[BWilson25]

I'm worried about the front loaded road games we seem to get from the BigTen every season.

 

[FC Illiniman]

That is a fantastic schedule.

Much better than last year, with some wins early RPI should be good going into B1G should be nice. Maui could make us feel really good or ready for a long season.

 

[illinitiger]

Rankings and stars don’t mean anything once the players have graduated HS and started playing. We did not have a good roster, whether that is mentally, culturally, athletically, or skillfully...it was not good. We knew what we had.

I agree about hoping BU could be some sort of basketball whisperer to help the roster but he couldn’t. (Probably not too many coaches that could have) So now we play the waiting game and watch him build the roster and see what he ends up with.

after the BU stints at SFA and OSU, I naively thought we was in fact "a player whisperer". He is not, but I do think he is a good coach with potential to turn this around.

He just needs to stick with what he knows and block out the noise. His success will depend on his ability to mold and integrate reasonably good players into his system. He was not efficient in integrating players last year and teaching his system. Not hiring at least one assistant coach that knows his system last year was a big mistake, IMO. He picked guys that could help with recruiting; thats ok, but contributed to last years slow rollout of the system.

His upcoming success will be determined in the gym and practices....not by hitting homeruns in recruiting. Loyola proved that you can compete with a variety of pieces....hit singles on the recruiting trail and develop smart players that love to perform together.


My goals in 2019 are for us to be a bubble team and for BU to be finalist for B10 COY. Each of those goals will be 90% determined by offseason development of the players, team and system.


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