Illini Basketball 2019-2020

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#501      
The only guy we lost that was a bit disappointing was Smith. Transfers are all the rage in the NCAA, so not surprising to me.
Honestly, Smith is down a bit on that list for me & not very disappointing. When you take position of need into account. I would have rather kept Black or Finke for one more year or Ebo & Kane developing as bigs. With Frazier, Ayo, & Feliz who I think were clearly better than Smith & Griffin, Tev, DW backing up I don't see much downside with Smith leaving. Sure I would have loved to keep him and he may turn out good before he is done, but with the scholarships limited, I don't see him being a significant upgrade over who we have. At Big any of Black/Finke/Ebo would have helped more last year, Ebo for a few years, I think Kane would have been at least competing in the back end of the rotation this year and would have helped down the road. So for me, put Smith at 5 on that list, ahead of only Matic with a heavy bias based on what we need depth wise.
 
#502      

jmilt7

Waukegan
The Italy trip is less than 3 weeks away. Seems like the schedule should be posted soon. Basically just talking (muttering) to myself. Also saw a sports writer mention that we are about half way through the off season. Again, just kind of muttering to myself
 
#503      

jmilt7

Waukegan
When I decided to see if the Italy schedule happened to be posted I saw this.

BEZHANISHVILI, WHITMAN, SMITH SET FOR ILLINI FEST

The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is strengthening its outreach to Chicago with its first-ever downtown festival. Illini Fest, planned for Thursday, July 18 from 3-6 p.m. in the Park Grill Plaza of Millennium Park, aims to bring the university experience to the more than 150,000 Fighting Illini alumni living in Chicagoland. The free event is open to the public. Food and drink will be provided while supplies last, and the first 1,000 Illini Fest guests to enter will receive a free full-size "Block I" Illinois flag.

Fighting Illini Athletics will be out in full force on Chicago's Millennium Park on Thursday. Illinois football coach Lovie Smith and Director of Athletics Josh Whitman will speak at 5 pm and 5:05 pm, respectively. Illinois men's basketball sophomore Giorgi Bezhanishvili will be teaching salsa dancing lessons at 4 pm. Smith will join Illinois football players Reggie Corbin, Nate Hobbs and Alex Palczewski at 5:15 to sign autographs.

Giorgi is apparently going to give dance lessons (y)
 
#504      
When I decided to see if the Italy schedule happened to be posted I saw this.

BEZHANISHVILI, WHITMAN, SMITH SET FOR ILLINI FEST

The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is strengthening its outreach to Chicago with its first-ever downtown festival. Illini Fest, planned for Thursday, July 18 from 3-6 p.m. in the Park Grill Plaza of Millennium Park, aims to bring the university experience to the more than 150,000 Fighting Illini alumni living in Chicagoland. The free event is open to the public. Food and drink will be provided while supplies last, and the first 1,000 Illini Fest guests to enter will receive a free full-size "Block I" Illinois flag.

Fighting Illini Athletics will be out in full force on Chicago's Millennium Park on Thursday. Illinois football coach Lovie Smith and Director of Athletics Josh Whitman will speak at 5 pm and 5:05 pm, respectively. Illinois men's basketball sophomore Giorgi Bezhanishvili will be teaching salsa dancing lessons at 4 pm. Smith will join Illinois football players Reggie Corbin, Nate Hobbs and Alex Palczewski at 5:15 to sign autographs.

Giorgi is apparently going to give dance lessons (y)

Park Grille is really cool, saw a few bands and a friend perform there for Chicago Bluesfest. This is really cool !!!
 
#505      
Honestly, Smith is down a bit on that list for me & not very disappointing. When you take position of need into account. I would have rather kept Black or Finke for one more year or Ebo & Kane developing as bigs. With Frazier, Ayo, & Feliz who I think were clearly better than Smith & Griffin, Tev, DW backing up I don't see much downside with Smith leaving. Sure I would have loved to keep him and he may turn out good before he is done, but with the scholarships limited, I don't see him being a significant upgrade over who we have. At Big any of Black/Finke/Ebo would have helped more last year, Ebo for a few years, I think Kane would have been at least competing in the back end of the rotation this year and would have helped down the road. So for me, put Smith at 5 on that list, ahead of only Matic with a heavy bias based on what we need depth wise.

You'd rather have Finke for 21 year than Smith for 3....interesting choice? I'd say you're over biased re need. Smith was also based on PR in Metro east & StL.

BTW, as I said before, Black isn't relevant. He didn't transfer, he got his degree and went to the pros. Finke wasn't much of a big either. I can see you're point on Kane, but guys want PT and if he didn't earn much last year, with Kofi coming in this year, he'd be lucky to get 10 mins/game, barring injury.
 
#506      
I can see you're point on Kane, but guys want PT and if he didn't earn much last year, with Kofi coming in this year, he'd be lucky to get 10 mins/game, barring injury.
??? If Giorgi shifts to the 4, there would have been ~20 min/game available to Kane.
 
#507      
??? If Giorgi shifts to the 4, there would have been ~20 min/game available to Kane.

A poster on 247 said it was academics, but even still, Giorgi will play some 5 too, plus Tevian, Verdonk etc at the 4, so I doubt he would've gotten more than 10 mins/game.
 
#508      
agree - however I think the other issue that gets lost was Samba's thin frame. He could not have played for any length of time against the larger / stronger bigs in the B1G. UNLV had more runners than bangers which allowed him some time. Against most other teams - we were undersized in length and girth anyway and SK did not help solve that issue so you had to use DLR to push opponents out of the lane.

Mike Tisdale and Nick Smith got plenty of minutes.
 
#509      

Deleted member 29907

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Mike Tisdale and Nick Smith got plenty of minutes.
Not sure we had a "DLR" as the 2nd option back then? But my point was, along with the other reasons mentioned, he also could not hold his own against B1G bangers in the conference. That's not to say all tall thin guys can't, just that Samba did not look to be a physical guy on the court and lack of girth made it worse.
 
#510      
You'd rather have Finke for 21 year than Smith for 3....interesting choice? I'd say you're over biased re need. Smith was also based on PR in Metro east & StL.

BTW, as I said before, Black isn't relevant. He didn't transfer, he got his degree and went to the pros. Finke wasn't much of a big either. I can see you're point on Kane, but guys want PT and if he didn't earn much last year, with Kofi coming in this year, he'd be lucky to get 10 mins/game, barring injury.

Whatever on Black, I see in a later post you clarified that you weren't including him...but I'm still more disappointed Black didn't chose to hang around for year 5 than Smith transferring.

With regards to you thinking Finke over Smith is an interesting choice ...actually IMO, Finke over Smith isn't close and I don't know why you wouldn't want to evaluate the transfers on both need and opportunity cost; the PR bit I think is a lost cause, a casualty of Smith not being as good as hoped for out of the gate, sometimes it is best to pull that band-aid off fast, rather than let him set here for 3 more years which could have been equivalent to pulling the band-aid off slowly...but that will be clearer in hindsight.

...Additionally with regards to Finke over Smith, it is Finke for 1yr + a scholarship to go out and recruit someone, where Smith ties up a scholarship for 3 years & you have to carve out minutes from Frazier/Ayo/ Feliz to give Smith, that is a net loss. Sure I think there is still a reasonable chance Smith develops into a stud, but so maybe does Griffin or whoever we give Smith's scholarship to. In my mind, Finke would have been a positive last year over what we ended up with, maybe he takes DLR minutes, maybe he takes some of our undersize guard minutes at the 4 and 5, but we were really bad depth wise at 4/5, at 1-3 I'm flat out not convinced that Smith is an upgrade with what we ended up with...if Smith is still on the roster, do we still get Feliz (probably, but it changes the sell), do we go out and get Griffin as we approach the scholly limit knowing we still need help at big. Nothing against Smith, but with the benefit of hindsight and seeing how our roster ended up, this isn't all that close & I'm just not disappointed at all that he moved on.

With regards to Kane, with some modest improvement I think 10 mpg was closer to the floor, especially since we still likely have a huge depth gap at 4/5, but the minutes next year is really a different discussion & doesn't really matter at this point assuming the likely transfer happens...he is a potential help this year at a position of need, but the real benefit is the potential to contribute and make a significant impact down the road as a Jr/Sr and by losing him we sort of hit the reset on developing a big for the future which is a much bigger need than hoping a guard develops and contributes a couple years from now.
 
#511      
This is a meritocracy, Calvin. We aren't giving out participation medals to these guys. I imagine he could get lots of PT at ISU, SIU, etc.

I don't think you understand player development or how you motivate players. Ever coach?

Edit: tone of this was harsher than I intended. I can tell you that most kids these days expect coaching to be a two-way street. I.e. it's not all about coaches drawing a hard-line stance about getting PT. There needs to be a development plan and some effort to work with the player or you'll lose their buy-in. High level talent has a ton of options, and taking them for granted is a recipe for turnover.
 
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#513      
??? If Giorgi shifts to the 4, there would have been ~20 min/game available to Kane.
You really think Brad won’t rotate Kofi and Giorgi at the 5 with Giorgi only playing half his time with Kofi? That’s definitely the most likely scenario, so there’s at most 10 minutes left at the 5 and a lot of out of position playing time for Kipper and tevian again.
 
#514      
You really think Brad won’t rotate Kofi and Giorgi at the 5 with Giorgi only playing half his time with Kofi? That’s definitely the most likely scenario, so there’s at most 10 minutes left at the 5 and a lot of out of position playing time for Kipper and tevian again.
I think Giorgi/Kofi taking up almost all of the minutes at the 5 is almost certain now. I think it was most likely even before Kane's transfer, but if Giorgi would have shown that he could play the 4, Kane would have had a chance to earn those minutes at the 5. I don't know what would have happened, but Kane had as much potential for a big jump this year as anyone.
 
#515      
Guys have to be willing to be depth. What is it you want to do, give them a stern talking to and tell them to stay? Guys see the writing on the wall and want to play. Hard to blame them. If one of the bigs gets hurt we have to play Tevian, Verdonk, Kouma at the 4.

Don't forget about kipper. TJ is more likely your 4. Why would kouma play anything but the 5?
 
#516      
Whatever on Black, I see in a later post you clarified that you weren't including him...but I'm still more disappointed Black didn't chose to hang around for year 5 than Smith transferring.

With regards to you thinking Finke over Smith is an interesting choice ...actually IMO, Finke over Smith isn't close and I don't know why you wouldn't want to evaluate the transfers on both need and opportunity cost; the PR bit I think is a lost cause, a casualty of Smith not being as good as hoped for out of the gate, sometimes it is best to pull that band-aid off fast, rather than let him set here for 3 more years which could have been equivalent to pulling the band-aid off slowly...but that will be clearer in hindsight.

...Additionally with regards to Finke over Smith, it is Finke for 1yr + a scholarship to go out and recruit someone, where Smith ties up a scholarship for 3 years & you have to carve out minutes from Frazier/Ayo/ Feliz to give Smith, that is a net loss. Sure I think there is still a reasonable chance Smith develops into a stud, but so maybe does Griffin or whoever we give Smith's scholarship to. In my mind, Finke would have been a positive last year over what we ended up with, maybe he takes DLR minutes, maybe he takes some of our undersize guard minutes at the 4 and 5, but we were really bad depth wise at 4/5, at 1-3 I'm flat out not convinced that Smith is an upgrade with what we ended up with...if Smith is still on the roster, do we still get Feliz (probably, but it changes the sell), do we go out and get Griffin as we approach the scholly limit knowing we still need help at big. Nothing against Smith, but with the benefit of hindsight and seeing how our roster ended up, this isn't all that close & I'm just not disappointed at all that he moved on.

With regards to Kane, with some modest improvement I think 10 mpg was closer to the floor, especially since we still likely have a huge depth gap at 4/5, but the minutes next year is really a different discussion & doesn't really matter at this point assuming the likely transfer happens...he is a potential help this year at a position of need, but the real benefit is the potential to contribute and make a significant impact down the road as a Jr/Sr and by losing him we sort of hit the reset on developing a big for the future which is a much bigger need than hoping a guard develops and contributes a couple years from now.

Does it Matter.gif
 
#518      
Was looking forward to seeing ILLINI play AZ this year....tickets are in nose bleed and only a few left according to multiple sites. Oh well, there is always a bar with some 805 to drink I guess.
 
#519      
Always nice to see the Whoosiers below the Illini.



Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein


Big Ten Offseason Power Rankings:

1. Michigan State
2. Maryland
3. Purdue
4. Ohio State
5. Penn State
6. Wisconsin
7. Illinois
8. Iowa
9. Michigan
10. Indiana
11. Rutgers
12. Nebraska
13. Minnesota
14. Northwestern
2,636
9:00 AM - Jul 15, 2019

Is this power ranking an offseason ranking of acquisitions a la recruits, transfers, etc? Or is this his overall preseason power ranking? I'd love to be ahead of Michigan and Iowa, but seems like they have us edged out currently.
 
#521      

Deleted member 628259

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#522      
??? If Giorgi shifts to the 4, there would have been ~20 min/game available to Kane.
....imo no way. ...A guy that made one free throw out of seven attempts and maybe one shot outside 10 feet all season isnt gonna just play because is tall and can jump. We have other options now at the 4. GB and Kofi will play most of the minutes at the 5 and when they are both out of the game then we have better options to play smaller. 6'8" to 6'10" with skill and a but strong ger is likely what would have happenned. Samba wouldnt have played it a tight game this year imo. That is likely why he bolted and why he didnt last year. I think BK and Verdonk both have much more skill than Kane and others have likely got better. He left because he saw that imo.
 
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#523      

Deleted member 182960

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Was looking forward to seeing ILLINI play AZ this year....tickets are in nose bleed and only a few left according to multiple sites. Oh well, there is always a bar with some 805 to drink I guess.
You looking at the GCU or U of A game??
 
#525      
....imo no way. ...A guy that made one free throw out of seven attempts and maybe one shot outside 10 feet all season isnt gonna just play because is tall and can jump. We have other options now at the 4. GB and Kofi will play most of the minutes at the 5 and when they are both out of the game then we have better options to play smaller. 6'8" to 6'10" with skill and a but strong ger is likely what would have happenned. Samba wouldnt have played it a tight game this year imo. That is likely why he bolted and why he didnt last year. I think BK and Verdonk both have much more skill than Kane and others have likely got better. He left because he saw that imo.
I didn't realize he was not going to improve at all between his freshman and sophomore years.
 
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