Illini Basketball 2019-2020

[ChiefGritty]

I feel that there there have been a lot of teams that had a strong big 7 foot player and a player at the 4 that played with his back to the basket.

I too enjoyed the NBA in the 90's.

Brad Underwood's offense isn't going to work with a non-shooter at the 4. You can just swarm the heck out of all of our pinch post stuff without that threat.

 

[RIVERCITYCHIEF]

I too enjoyed the NBA in the 90's.

Brad Underwood's offense isn't going to work with a non-shooter at the 4.

I was not referring to the 90s. What about Michigan State last season? Nick Ward who i see took 2 all last season and Xavier Tilman (29% and made a total of 8) are not 3 point shooters and should be starting for the pre-season B10 favorites. The 4 doesnt need to be able hit a high percentage they just need to be decent enough to be guarded.

Are you saying GB has to hit from 3 often? Do you think our 4 must shoot it from 3 to be effective?. I dont think he does. Sure it would be awesome and maybe he can. I think he just needs to hit from the line and wings and be guarded and be a good passer when he is on the floor. I hope and think that he will almost always be our #1 option in the post in BUs offense when he is on the floor either at the 4 or 5. I dont think we draw up plays for GB from 3. That is not playing to his strengths nor is it a requirement. I do not think that coach BU would say that either. GB just needs to be guarded from that area when he is in the offense and he will be.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Street & Smith has us 9th.

I guess you missed the part where I said most pick us 5th to 7th. BTW, Street & Smith still exists?

 

[Deleted member 29907]

I too enjoyed the NBA in the 90's.

Brad Underwood's offense isn't going to work with a non-shooter at the 4. You can just swarm the heck out of all of our pinch post stuff without that threat.

You don't have to be a 3 pt shooter to be a threat. He's not going to be a stretch 4. I don't think GB will be an issue 15 and within and has enough BBIQ to get to the rim either via dribble or cut w/out the ball. Basically he has the backdown skills of Happ.

A switching 4 / 5 high low will work very nicely and if they swarm the pinch post GB is left to cut to the hoop. Net is, we should probably give our coach a bit of credit in knowing how to handle two guys like GB and Kofi in together.

 

[PtownIllini8]

It's not that silly. Many big men struggle as freshmen, even some of the highest ranked ones. And Kipper is a 5th year senior who can be very solid if his head is on straight. But I think many of us are taking for granted the fact that Giorgi will slide into the 4 spot with ease. Hopefully that's the case, but it's no guarantee.

If we end up on the bubble instead of comfortably in, the two most likely things that could go wrong IMO...

1. This pressure defense is simply too crazy to win games consistently.
2. Kofi and Giorgi are not the dynamic duo we expected them to be.

It's not that silly to say that we start an incredibly mercurial 6'5" senior forward at the 4 instead of our 7'0" 280+ lbs top 50 center, and once again force Giorgi to play out of position (his words, not mine) at the 5, while also playing said mercurial senior out of position at the 4, even though rebounding was arguably our biggest problem, along with defending the post inside? I beg to differ.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I was not referring to the 90s. What about Michigan State last season? Nick Ward who i see took 2 all last season and Xavier Tilman (29%) are not 3 point shooters and should be starting for the pre-season B10 favorites. The 4 doesnt need to be able hit a high percentage they just need to be decent enough to be guarded.

1. Michigan State plays a different style of basketball
2. MSU did, in fact, split up Ward and Tillman's minutes a lot of the time
3. Decent enough to be guarded is all I'm saying. You need to force the defense to take away wide open 17 footers. GB could not do that last year.

 

[PtownIllini8]

I too enjoyed the NBA in the 90's.

Brad Underwood's offense isn't going to work with a non-shooter at the 4. You can just swarm the heck out of all of our pinch post stuff without that threat.

Yeah, please go ahead and try swarming the pinch post and see what happens with Ayo and Trent. Plus, as long as Giorgi is good from 15' foot and you have Kofi setting up on the low post, teams have a lot of options to cover, and that's without considering Griff or Tevian running around getting open looks. This team is going to be very dangerous on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[ChiefGritty]

as long as Giorgi is good from 15' foot

THIS WAS NOT THE CASE LAST YEAR. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

 

[PtownIllini8]

Why? We have 40 minutes for Giorgi and Kofi to play at the 5. Unless Hamlin turns out to be a monster, why do we need Giorgi playing more than 5 minutes a game at the 4?

For one, the 4 is where Giorgi played all of the time before last year, so it's not a new position to him (his words, not mine). For two, we need Giogi and Kofi to play more than 5 minutes together because they are two of our top 5 players and we're better off in most cases with both of the on the floor together. We sucked on the boards last year, which isn't happening with both of those guys on the floor together.

 

[RIVERCITYCHIEF]

1. Michigan State plays a different style of basketball
2. MSU did, in fact, split up Ward and Tillman's minutes a lot of the time
3. Decent enough to be guarded is all I'm saying. You need to force the defense to take away wide open 17 footers. GB could not do that last year.

I think GB shot it fine outside of the lane. Teams always tried to guard GB from 17 feet. If he is unguarded from that distance he will make them but i dont want him taking that shot if he is contested. If he is guarded then the floor will be spaced. GB was a stud last year and when he put up 35pts they were not all lay ups and were converted in a manor that he can again this year too from the 4 spot with Kofi crashing the board from the opposite side. BU can change his system to adapt to his players too Nothing is written in stone. BU or any good coach will adapt and play to his teams strengths. .

 

[PtownIllini8]

THIS WAS NOT THE CASE LAST YEAR. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

1) How often did Giorgi shoot from 15' last year? Not much, probably less than from 3 point land, although I do recall him driving the ball from 15' or so last year; 2) Giorgi was a freshman last year, and unlike last year, he's known all summer that he'll be called upon from the outside more this year. BTW, Griff and TJ didn't get many minutes last year, but they will THIS YEAR, THAT"S WHAT I'M SAYING.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I think GB shot it fine outside of the lane. Teams always tried to guard GB from 17 feet.

Listen, ultimately we are in complete agreement that if the quoted factual claims are true going forward, that Giorgi at the 4 is a fine idea and probably our best lineup to the extent Kofi is able to be out there and be a contributor.

Giorgi is a kitchen sink player who threw a lot of weird stuff out there last year, and was a super difficult scout for opponents. But when we struggled down the stretch last year, a big contributor to why was that teams started sagging off Giorgi to create more buildup in the paint to combat Ayo drives. If he's money from the elbow, we can kill teams that try to do that, and if they step out to take that away, Ayo has a layup any time he can break down his initial defender, which is frequently.

How often did Giorgi shoot from 15' last year? Not much, probably less than from 3 point land

Exactly. It wasn't often, and it went poorly when it was tried.

 

[RIVERCITYCHIEF]

I think GB can be an effective at the 4 while not attempting a bunch of shots from 17ft. I am not sure i want anyone taking a bunch of shots from 17ft unless they are wide open. That doesnt happen much for anyone. A contested 17ft shot is a bad shot for almost all college players. You need to be effective enough to be guarded. I think every player on our team is. GB can put it on the floor and get to the basket, pass and do what we need from him. If he is left wide open from 17 feet i hope he takes it. Teams dont want to leave GB open from that distance! I do not recall him ever being left open all last season as a strategy to be a liability for our team. He can play outside the paint, pass, must be guarded, and can get to the basket just fine. GB may have taken some dumb contested shots from 17ft and i am with you that he doesnt need to do that but no one on our team needs to take that crappy shot.

 

[PlayAZ]

It's not that silly to say that we start an incredibly mercurial 6'5" senior forward at the 4

If this is indeed the scenario, might as well put Griffin there and go athletic (Kipper isn't), at least Griffin is being lauded as outstanding on the glass right now!

 

[PtownIllini8]

If this is indeed the scenario, might as well put Griffin there and go athletic (Kipper isn't), at least Griffin is being lauded as outstanding on the glass right now!

I'm sure that combo will happen some, but I want Giorgi and Kofi on the floor together at least 10 minutes/game.

 

[Deleted member 29907]

Be

THIS WAS NOT THE CASE LAST YEAR. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

GB was good from 15 ft - very often it was a backdown dribble, cut, etc. Being Good from 15 ft doesn't mean he has to turn and shoot.

 

[ChiefGritty]

GB was good from 15 ft - very often it was a backdown dribble, cut, etc. Being Good from 15 ft doesn't mean he has to turn and shoot.

Haven't any of you people ever played basketball before? I mean even like IMPE pick up basketball.

The first thing you need to know about someone you're guarding - how far out do I need to pick this guy up? How much help can I give off of this guy? If the guy doesn't have range longer than his arm you want to play off of him, and if he's a good cutter and driver and a threat to slash to the bucket that's even MORE reason to want to play off of him.

If the most dangerous thing a player can do from the elbow is turn around and back his butt into you (even if he's extremely good at it!) then you had darned well better be well off of him providing help in the lane.

 

[RIVERCITYCHIEF]

Haven't any of you people ever played basketball before? I mean even like IMPE pick up basketball.

The first thing you need to know about someone you're guarding - how far out do I need to pick this guy up? How much help can I give off of this guy? If the guy doesn't have range longer than his arm you want to play off of him, and if he's a good cutter and driver and a threat to slash to the bucket that's even MORE reason to want to play off of him.

If the most dangerous thing a player can do from the elbow is turn around and back his butt into you (even if he's extremely good at it!) then you had darned well better be well off of him providing help in the lane.

Clearly you think B10 coaches dont see a major flaw in GBs game that you do. This is not like Jaylon Tate running the 1. Also, since you asked I have a Masters in Sports Administration, have worked with in Collegiate Athletics and basically lived in gyms. Ive worked with some coaches, took a course in coaching basketball class for an entire semester where a future Final Four coach and some of the staff led the course plus other coaching clinics out of personal interest. Do you feel you know more than B10 coaches? I have never seen GB left open on purpose and sagged off of being dared to take a 17ft shot. I do not know where or why you think he wont be closely guarded. If you took that approach to GB he would make that uncontested shot or drive given a clean first step and convert in either scenario at over 50%. . Coaches dont guard GB like that for a reason. You must feel B10 coaches guarded him incorrectly and shoud go learn at IMPE. We are not taking about a player like JT in years past. Those days are gone. I agree with what you said about playing defense as a single player but not one B10 coach or any coach has played GB like that from 17ft in and they wont.

 

[Berg88]

For one, the 4 is where Giorgi played all of the time before last year, so it's not a new position to him (his words, not mine). For two, we need Giogi and Kofi to play more than 5 minutes together because they are two of our top 5 players and we're better off in most cases with both of the on the floor together. We sucked on the boards last year, which isn't happening with both of those guys on the floor together.

I don't really buy this premise. Unless Hamlin turns out to be a huge surprise, why do you want him on the floor for more minutes? Pretty much anything past 5 minutes of Giorgi and Kofi together requires Hamlin on the floor. If Giorgi shows a typical freshman to sophomore improvement, you would expect him to be on one of the all conference teams this year, but we want to move him? I understand he says he's played the 4 before, but he hasn't done it in the Big Ten. He has played the 5 in the Big Ten at a high level. We could have Kofi and Giorgi out there together for 20 minutes a game if we want to play Hamlin for 15-20. Should that be the plan?

 

[ChiefGritty]

We are not taking about a player like JT in years past. Those days are gone.

Lol that was like three years ago.

 

[Pop'sBlackDog]

Not shocking at all, Griffin and Jones outside of this board were relatively unknown to the rest of the B!G. Neither were even in the top 25 B!G freshman and nowhere to be found in the top 100 players. Jones had one shining moment at MSG, the rest of the time he wasn't known. It didn't help he missed 10 games due to his supsension. 9 & 10th men on 13th place teams don't get much recognition. The big hope is they make a huge Freshman/Sophomore leap, Both showed positive signs in Italy, but we all know what that meant.

but Hamlin and Verdonk are mentioned at the wings in the article. Doesn't jive with your theory or am I missing something?

 

[RIVERCITYCHIEF]

Lol that was like three years ago.

i dont think we are in the same place as we were three years ago, do you? I certainly hope not. A lot can change in three years thank God! We have an future NBA PG and other quality back ups and transfers already in fold for next season. Things have changed drastically and that is in the past as long as BU is here. Dp you disagree with that too?

 

[Deleted member 29907]

Haven't any of you people ever played basketball before? I mean even like IMPE pick up basketball.

The first thing you need to know about someone you're guarding - how far out do I need to pick this guy up? How much help can I give off of this guy? If the guy doesn't have range longer than his arm you want to play off of him, and if he's a good cutter and driver and a threat to slash to the bucket that's even MORE reason to want to play off of him.

If the most dangerous thing a player can do from the elbow is turn around and back his butt into you (even if he's extremely good at it!) then you had darned well better be well off of him providing help in the lane.

Played, or coached or had 3 kids in AAU BBall all my life smart guy. You can take any point to the extreme - no one said all he'd do is turn his butt and back people down. But keep making up extreme scenarios to try and make your point.

Your point of he can either hit a consistent 15 foot shot or he's worthless outside is just false especially given our offense.

 

[jrichisamazing]

It's not that silly to say that we start an incredibly mercurial 6'5" senior forward at the 4 instead of our 7'0" 280+ lbs top 50 center, and once again force Giorgi to play out of position (his words, not mine) at the 5, while also playing said mercurial senior out of position at the 4, even though rebounding was arguably our biggest problem, along with defending the post inside? I beg to differ.

It's not that silly to say we start an incredibly versatile senior forward who decided to work harder than ever to earn his starting spot because of the added competition for his job. And our top 50 center is struggling to get consistent minutes because this exotic defense is tough to learn and he fouls way too much.

We will find out soon enough. I hope Kofi hits the ground running. But I've seen enough college basketball to know we should never pencil in freshmen as guaranteed starters, especially centers.

 

[ChiefGritty]

Your point of he can either hit a consistent 15 foot shot or he's worthless outside

Mmhhmmhmhm! Mmmhm, mmmmhmmm

Sorry, tough to talk with your words in my mouth.