Looking ahead to 2020

[Twangers]

How does our offense function (I am asking quite sincerely)?

I'll keep it succinct but essentially what we are doing is running a dumb down version of a complex passing offense, which is basically little more than intermediate timing and vertical C.O.P. routes out of playaction or RPO. There's nothing gadgety or wild about it. The overall goal of the offense has been difficult for me to decipher at times, which is something I'll address if I decide to do my post-season review but the objective is not space, it's pressure on the high safety.

This has always, as fricycle alludes to, a portion of Rich Rodriquez's offensive sets but Rod is running them at a much higher clip while ignoring most of the Spread and Air Raid stuff that his former boss used routinely.

 

[Twangers]

I'm pretty sure the Rich Rod offense is mostly about numbers in the box, leverage on receivers, pre snap coverage. Take what the defense gives you.

Passing game uses concepts like Stick, Smash, run game is RPOs off Read Option Wide Zone and Read Option Inside Zone.

Bold: Correct, it's also a fair amount of Smash or smash fade but it an odd twist Rod only seems to call this against Man 0 or single high whereas most playcallers use it to kill Cover 2.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

Bold: Unfortunately, this is not correct. That is not how our offense functions

How the offense is functioning and how the offense is meant to function is predicated on our personal. I will respectfully disagree that when our roster is up an healthy again, we wont be trying to put the ball in our best athletes hands in space

 

[Twangers]

How the offense is functioning and how the offense is meant to function is predicated on our personal. I will respectfully disagree that when our roster is up an healthy again, we wont be trying to put the ball in our best athletes hands in space

This would be fine if we actually did this when we were healthy. But we did not.

 

[Deleted member 654622]

This would be fine if we actually did this when we were healthy. But we did not.

I should have worded my reply better.
Last year, going into the season, I would say most people considered the best player on the team let alone the offense was Reggie Corbin. We had an unknown QB, unknown WRs, our best known WR had major drop issues last year, and the strength of our offensive line is run blocking.
The year before that, DudeK got hurt game 1, leaving us completely depleted with a really good running QB.

This season, we will start with a QB we feel can throw the football, unknown RBs, and our best players at WR and TE. We will know if I was right or wrong after the first B1G game

Even this year, I don't recall a lot of pass attempts over the middle

 

[Twangers]

I should have worded my reply better.
Last year, going into the season, I would say most people considered the best player on the team let alone the offense was Reggie Corbin. We had an unknown QB, unknown WRs, our best known WR had major drop issues last year, and the strength of our offensive line is run blocking.
The year before that, DudeK got hurt game 1, leaving us completely depleted with a really good running QB.

This season, we will start with a QB we feel can throw the football, unknown RBs, and our best players at WR and TE. We will know if I was right or wrong after the first B1G game

Even this year, I don't recall a lot of pass attempts over the middle

Bold: Fair but to the point, minus the RB position (Which doesn't factor much for this discussion, as we don't that position in the pass game) this is exactly how we started last season. Josh, Ricky, Trevon, Daniel, that's the heart of team from a skill stand point. It's a reasonable assumption that the offensive sets we utilized in 2019 will carry over to 2020. That likely spells more of what we saw this season as opposed to what I think our offense may look like down the road (Hopefully it looks like what you've described at that time).

And that could be a problem.

 

[frycicle]

Bold: Fair but to the point, minus the RB position (Which doesn't factor much for this discussion, as we don't that position in the pass game) this is exactly how we started last season. Josh, Ricky, Trevon, Daniel, that's the heart of team from a skill stand point. It's a reasonable assumption that the offensive sets we utilized in 2019 will carry over to 2020. That likely spells more of what we saw this season as opposed to what I think our offense may look like down the road (Hopefully it looks like what you've described at that time).

And that could be a problem.

I think we could have a successful offense with those players, we just need to play to their strengths. Like the Philly Eagles did in their Superbowl run with passing based RPOs. I would throw in a lot of mesh and 4 verts with our TEs in the slot or on the line. We would have mismatches in the seam and make the defense play off, and then we can smash them with RPO inside zone. Then once I Williams or Spann start at QB, add more RPO with QB run available, and boom, great offense.

But I'm not a coach...

 

[Twangers]

I think we could have a successful offense with those players, we just need to play to their strengths. Like the Philly Eagles did in their Superbowl run with passing based RPOs. I would throw in a lot of mesh and 4 verts with our TEs in the slot or on the line. We would have mismatches in the seam and make the defense play off, and then we can smash them with RPO inside zone. Then once I Williams or Spann start at QB, add more RPO with QB run available, and boom, great offense.

But I'm not a coach...

I stopped reading at the bold. That's where my concern level goes from "eh" to "MY HAIR IS ON FIRE AND THE WORLD IS ENDING"!!!!!

There's been a lot of talk about the increased talent level of the teams in the West, namely Nebraska and that's fair and just as they recruited extremely well this cycle but the best player entering this conference in 2020 isn't Turner Corcoran (Kinda "eh" last week in my mind but others thought he was excellent. Agree to disagree), it's Luke Ford. WE have the most purely talented newcomer to the scene but none of that matters if use him the way we used Daniel Barker. Luke Ford owns the seam. It's his property, his name is branded into it. He can hit the top of that thing in the snap of a finger and you can't defend him, the safety won't out position him and the MIKE can't run with him. Don't make me laugh with the idea of a CB trailing him. He will dominate those routes but Rod has to start attacking them with regularity. This season, we ignored those calls and before you say "Well of course not, he didn't have Luke then" let me remind you that Daniel Barker is more than capable of attaching those routes (One of the biggest singular missed opportunities from 2019 was a badly under thrown ball from Brandon to Daniel who had the seam). Rod simply didn't call them. That must change.

 

[Jguede]

I stopped reading at the bold. That's where my concern level goes from "eh" to "MY HAIR IS ON FIRE AND THE WORLD IS ENDING"!!!!!

There's been a lot of talk about the increased talent level of the teams in the West, namely Nebraska and that's fair and just as they recruited extremely well this cycle but the best player entering this conference in 2020 isn't Turner Corcoran (Kinda "eh" last week in my mind but others thought he was excellent. Agree to disagree), it's Luke Ford. WE have the most purely talented newcomer to the scene but none of that matters if use him the way we used Daniel Barker. Luke Ford owns the seam. It's his property, his name is branded into it. He can hit the top of that thing in the snap of a finger and you can't defend him, the safety won't out position him and the MIKE can't run with him. Don't make me laugh with the idea of a CB trailing him. He will dominate those routes but Rod has to start attacking them with regularity. This season, we ignored those calls and before you say "Well of course not, he didn't have Luke then" let me remind you that Daniel Barker is more than capable of attaching those routes (One of the biggest singular missed opportunities from 2019 was a badly under thrown ball from Brandon to Daniel who had the seam). Rod simply didn't call them. That must change.

Complete agreement.

 

[frycicle]

I stopped reading at the bold. That's where my concern level goes from "eh" to "MY HAIR IS ON FIRE AND THE WORLD IS ENDING"!!!!!

I mean you could read the rest, I think I have a solid offensive strategy.

But yeah, I view Ford as our Gronk, Kittle, Fant, etc. We have to make sure our offense gets him involved. If you double Ford, here come Barker, plus we have strong blocking for run calls. It creates an impossible scenario to cover. Plus having 2 good TEs utilized well reminds me of some team that scored 63 on us a couple years ago...

Anyone have Rod Smith's email?

 

[Twangers]

I mean you could read the rest, I think I have a solid offensive strategy.

But yeah, I view Ford as our Gronk, Kittle, Fant, etc. We have to make sure our offense gets him involved. If you double Ford, here come Barker, plus we have strong blocking for run calls. It creates an impossible scenario to cover. Plus having 2 good TEs utilized well reminds me of some team that scored 63 on us a couple years ago...

Anyone have Rod Smith's email?

LOL, my apologies. The cord was struck.

I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that we attack the opposing defense in much the same fashion that NE did for years with Rob Gronkowski, with the 12–15 yard middle post, the deep seam and the 8-12 yard out. NE used to run him out of stacked combo routes quite a bit. So, they’d get the X and Z on the strong side and then line Gronk out wide at the bottom of the combo and run the out. That type of design for a kid like Ford would be incredibly difficult to defend.

My concern, as stated, is that I haven’t yet this type of attack from Rod. It would be a fairly drastic change in mindset.

 

[illinoistradition]

LOL, my apologies. The cord was struck.

I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that we attack the opposing defense in much the same fashion that NE did for years with Rob Gronkowski, with the 12–15 yard middle post, the deep seam and the 8-12 yard out. NE used to run him out of stacked combo routes quite a bit. So, they’d get the X and Z on the strong side and then line Gronk out wide at the bottom of the combo and run the out. That type of design for a kid like Ford would be incredibly difficult to defend.

My concern, as stated, is that I haven’t yet this type of attack from Rod. It would be a fairly drastic change in mindset.

I know this isn’t what you are saying, but to that, I’d say if Rod Smith wants to keep his job and earn his salary, he needs to be flexible and meet his talent where it is. Otherwise, he should be shown the door after next season if they disappoint (hopefully they don’t).

 

[Twangers]

I know this isn’t what you are saying, but to that, I’d say if Rod Smith wants to keep his job and earn his salary, he needs to be flexible and meet his talent where it is. Otherwise, he should be shown the door after next season if they disappoint (hopefully they don’t).

That’s not what I was saying but I don’t disagree.

Luke Ford, as a pure talent, is the type of kid that our program traditionally would sign but once every decade. Rod has little choice but to adapt. For the conversation related to what we do schematically, however, I’ll need to see it to believe it.

 

[Orange Line to Blue Line]

Bold: Correct, it's also a fair amount of Smash or smash fade but it an odd twist Rod only seems to call this against Man 0 or single high whereas most playcallers use it to kill Cover 2.

Have you tried covering a 7 out of the slot with no safety help? Not easy, especially if you aren't getting help underneath from the corner. Typically I watch games at a bar so I am not taking notes, but concept passing doesn't mirror concepts to each side. Are we doing this? We used to tag backside with either a quick game (singe receiver), two man concept, or throw another concept to that side (cover 2 beater strong and cover 3 weak).

 

[Twangers]

Have you tried covering a 7 out of the slot with no safety help? Not easy, especially if you aren't getting help underneath from the corner. Typically I watch games at a bar so I am not taking notes, but concept passing doesn't mirror concepts to each side. Are we doing this? We used to tag backside with either a quick game (singe receiver), two man concept, or throw another concept to that side (cover 2 beater strong and cover 3 weak).

Bold: We can probably take this to PM so as not to derail the thread but this type of route design is something we should be utilizing to maximize Luke Ford. If you're creative with the 7 route and willing to call a lot of flat 7 and SMASH out of 11 (Josh on the top or Trevon on the bottom out of combo), you force the safety over the top and the corner has to sink to protect him. If he doesn't, you have the 7. If he does, you have all that open space underneath to slip Luke out into.

That's a near impossible design to defend with the talent of players we're discussing.

 

[mhuml32]

Some consideration in favor of Bob McClain, PFF ranked Illinois with the 11th-best offensive line in 2019.

 

[BWBW]

Please don't take the discussion private. Good stuff.

 

[Ander1345]

Austin Clark headed to Miami Dolphins.

 

[soupy17]

Bold: We can probably take this to PM so as not to derail the thread but this type of route design is something we should be utilizing to maximize Luke Ford. If you're creative with the 7 route and willing to call a lot of flat 7 and SMASH out of 11 (Josh on the top or Trevon on the bottom out of combo), you force the safety over the top and the corner has to sink to protect him. If he doesn't, you have the 7. If he does, you have all that open space underneath to slip Luke out into.

That's a near impossible design to defend with the talent of players we're discussing.

Please don't take the discussion private. Good stuff.

For real though I agree with BW here. I'm loving these discussions

 

[Orange Line to Blue Line]

Bold: We can probably take this to PM so as not to derail the thread but this type of route design is something we should be utilizing to maximize Luke Ford. If you're creative with the 7 route and willing to call a lot of flat 7 and SMASH out of 11 (Josh on the top or Trevon on the bottom out of combo), you force the safety over the top and the corner has to sink to protect him. If he doesn't, you have the 7. If he does, you have all that open space underneath to slip Luke out into.

That's a near impossible design to defend with the talent of players we're discussing.

Out of that same personnel also gives you Spot Concept too. Two birds 1 stone. Get #2 receiver (Trevon or Ford) on the 7 and use #3 (Love Epstein here) in space on the swing (or bubble out of a 3x1). #1 Holds your alley defender. Allow you to beat cover 3 out of the same look you ran Smash out of.

 

[Twangers]

Out of that same personnel also gives you Spot Concept too. Two birds 1 stone. Get #2 receiver (Trevon or Ford) on the 7 and use #3 (Love Epstein here) in space on the swing (or bubble out of a 3x1). #1 Holds your alley defender. Allow you to beat cover 3 out of the same look you ran Smash out of.

If you do that I want Cumby there but my true goal is get Luke in the underneath. I don't want him on the 7, I want him as that easy valve for Brandon for a number of reasons.

But that's just me.

 

[Orange Line to Blue Line]

If you do that I want Cumby there but my true goal is get Luke in the underneath. I don't want him on the 7, I want him as that easy valve for Brandon for a number of reasons.

But that's just me.

I would agree with logic. I am trying to visualize the possibilities. I don't hate Ford on that 7 in Cover 1 or 0. I would feel very comfortable as a QB with Ford matched up with nickel/safety with no help over the top.

I think what we are both trying to get at is you don't need to be overly creative with concepts. Formations/personnel groupings can show different looks out of the same concept.

 

[Twangers]

I would agree with logic. I am trying to visualize the possibilities. I don't hate Ford on that 7 in Cover 1 or 0. I would feel very comfortable as a QB with Ford matched up with nickel/safety with no help over the top.

I think what we are both trying to get at is you don't need to be overly creative with concepts. Formations/personnel groupings can show different looks out of the same concept.

It's not that I hate him on the 7 it's that I really like Josh and Trevon (off combo) on that route and I really, long term, want the ball in Luke's hands as often as possible. Finding him space underneath on these types of concepts is an easy way for Brandon to speed up his internal clock (Which is crucial for his development) and get Luke that ball on what my napkin shows is a low-risk, higher percentage look. Luke Ford is going to be the most talented player on this football team. I want to manufacture as many looks his way as possible.

And yes, that's exactly what we're both doing.

 

[Orange Line to Blue Line]

It's not that I hate him on the 7 it's that I really like Josh and Trevon (off combo) on that route and I really, long term, want the ball in Luke's hands as often as possible. Finding him space underneath on these types of concepts is an easy way for Brandon to speed up his internal clock (Which is crucial for his development) and get Luke that ball on what my napkin shows is a low-risk, higher percentage look. Luke Ford is going to be the most talented player on this football team. I want to manufacture as many looks his way as possible.

And yes, that's exactly what we're both doing.

The one thing that worries me about Ford in that Corner (any tight end really) is going to be time. Its going to take longer for Ford to get to space than Trevon. And that was talking Smash Concept. Whats next? China? Backside 2x2 concepts? Drive? Mesh?

 

[Twangers]

The one thing that worries me about Ford in that Corner (any tight end really) is going to be time. Its going to take longer for Ford to get to space than Trevon. And that was talking Smash Concept. Whats next? China? Backside 2x2 concepts? Drive? Mesh?

Again, we're both drawing this up in our heads but to me you're gonna get more space for Luke if you're running Josh on the flat 7 at the top than you will with Trevon running the bait out of combo which is kinda what I'm thinking.

If you're running "China" do you want Luke at the Z then? That's gonna put less stress on the safety than it would if you have Trevon there (Down the road, James Frenchie). For me, I want something quicker if it's Luke. Go diagonal and do a couple different things: Draw him inside to sell a screen (Which kills the LB) and work him back or I get him on an outside release to give Brandon the quick read. Or I get the CB to pinch down and go to the 7. And you can do both off of playaction, which is great for us.