Deciding the fate of Groce will not be a difficult decision for Whitman. The answer will be readily apparent after the final game.
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The point has nothing to do with bragging about making the NIT, or " "NIT means nothing, nobody watches, etc." as per my post, which seems that you have not read. You seem to want to argue with me about keeping Groce, which is not what I am advocating.
For the uneducated such as myself, is a lower Kenpom score better?
FeelYourPaign
- So Cal
Yes, it's his statistical to 25, carried out to#300 or whatever the total team count is. Lower is better
It's a ranking. Out of the 300-some Division 1 teams. Statistically based and using margin of victory unlike RPI making it a much better at-a-glance number to use.
Deleted member 29907
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Why don't we just hire KenPom as coach and he can put us #1
WiscIllini
- Madison, WI
No I was arguing your point which stated that the Illini were bubble teams in the NIT, which we weren't. I am not advocating for keeping or firing Groce until this season is finished.
I agree that we were not a strong bubble team but there was indeed some bubble talk that season, especially late when we won 5 of our last 6, until our hopes were crushed losing to a very good (#8) Michigan team by 1 point in the quarterfinals of the B1G tournament.
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=20880&page=37
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...tock-watch-for-bubble-teams-at-week-18/page/7
In either case, my point is that I am not convinced Whitman will fire Groce if we make the NIT, assuming we can keep out of trouble off the court. I have some serious doubts, it does not mean that he won't, but I do not believe it is such a sure thing as others make it out to be.
WiscIllini
- Madison, WI
Obelix, I see what you are getting at now. I thought you meant we were a bubble team in the NIT those years, which is what I was taking issue with. I really think Whitman is going to have a hard time justifying keeping Groce if he does not make the tournament.
It's going to be tough, no doubt. but contrary to others, I do not believe that Whitman's mindset is that he wants to fire Groce and just gave him a chance this year, etc. My information is that he really likes and supports Groce so he may look for reasons not to.
It is not that NIT is an accomplishment either, I personally couldn't care less about it, but it would mean that Groce has avoided a really bad season, Illini would likely at some point included on bubble talk, would probably have some surprise wins, etc. If they avoid off court problems, there would probably be some additionally positive spin on new direction of the program, change of culture, etc. Combine that with Whitman's predisposition, I am not convinced he would fire him.
At the same time, our team looks fragile, and next few games are really tough, so I am not convinced that Groce has avoided a bad season yet (a non-NIT season), in which case Whitman would "have to" fire him.
mattcoldagelli
- The Transfer Portal
I am thinking at the end of the day the crowds at the SFC will make the decision for him. We are teetering on the brink of total apathy.
Do you see how these pieces don't fit together logically? Either the NIT matters or it doesn't.
There obviously is a difference between being a 20-win NIT 1-seed and last year's Rutgers. But from the perspective of Illinois Basketball as a commercial entity, there's no FUNCTIONAL difference. Failure is failure. And if this handpicked, deep, talented, experienced, healthy, senior-laden team is a failure, there are no prospects for future success with John Groce, period.
You can pick and choose words and try to reconstruct and argue what you would if you were Whitman, but the statement and point is different.
Four straight years out of the tournament being "positive spin on the future direction of the program" is just wrong. It's not more complicated than that.
I'm disinterested in the sorts of arguments that go "Whitman is really smart, therefore my opinions are his opinions". You are arguing that Groce should stay, and bootstrapping the idea that your thoughts are in the head of the AD. Let's call a spade a spade on that point.
I'm disinterested in the sorts of arguments that go "Whitman is really smart, therefore my opinions are his opinions". You are arguing that Groce should stay, and bootstrapping the idea that your thoughts are in the head of the AD. Let's call a spade a spade on that point.
Stop, just stop! :hand:
Read the post for what is says, not what you want it to say. You want to argue with people that Groce should get fired, and when you can't find them, you still create strawman arguments even quoting and putting words in people's post that are not there.
There are certain sorts of sports fans who will never want leadership change under any circumstances. When your program has been reduced to a smoking ruin that few people bother even paying attention to anymore, you're going to be disproportionately left with those sorts of people on websites like this.
It's really striking that no one is making the argument that a first round exit as an 11-seed isn't good enough for Groce to keep his job. That tells you what slice of the fan electorate is represented here. The empty seats at SFC are unanimous on that argument, I assure you.
It's really striking that no one is making the argument that a first round exit as an 11-seed isn't good enough for Groce to keep his job. That tells you what slice of the fan electorate is represented here. The empty seats at SFC are unanimous on that argument, I assure you.
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Stop anointing yourself as the collective wisdom of illini fandom and accusing posters of their fandom or lack of, when it has nothing to do with specific posts. Stick to the content, what the posts actually say, not what you want them to say.
You are reaching a new low, accusing posters that they do not post enough on what you wanted them to post on. It is laughable, especially on a "coaching carousel" thread that is pretty much devoted to that.
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
This is what I think, I am part of that silent minority. If that's the best JG can do with this roster then I have low expectations for the immediate future. I just don't care to argue the opinion here, cuz well, it's just my opinion.
If that is where our season ends I believe JW only makes a change if he has a coach lined up who would be a major upgrade over JG.That's the opposite of what I'm doing. Those of us still here are the best fans in the damn world. No fanbase has suffered as much as we have in recent years, see my "misery index" thread for proof of that.
I'm making two points:
1. No one here knows what Josh Whitman is thinking.
2. The universal consensus here that Groce should and will get a contract extension by just barely sneaking through on the right side of the bubble is NOT a universal view among Illini fans writ large. Among the Illinois fans and alums I'm in contact with in real life, the consensus is closer to disbelief that Groce still has his job at this point.
Not sure how your statements of "There are certain sorts of sports fans who will never want leadership change under any circumstances" and "That tells you what slice of the fan electorate is represented here" can't be interpreted as accusing some posters' fandom.
Apparently you do...
You also seem to know what recruits are thinking and will do.
LOL... so glad to have you represent the universal consensus.
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I don't consider making the tournament an accomplishment. Groce needs to at least win a game there or finish with a minimum 11 B1G wins to make up for these previous 4 years, I would think . Someone had mentioned that Groce has helped lowered expectations so much where the fanbase is simply content with making the tournament and little more. In a bizarre way, he has helped himself by doing so poorly by lowering the bar for himself. I agree.
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