Basketball reference.com
Russia 10 NBA players since inception
Indiana 121 players, however Russia hacked that list
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Basketball reference.com
Russia 10 NBA players since inception
Indiana 121 players, however Russia hacked that list
Texas has had more McDonald's AAs though.
Lon Kruger also had a Final Four before taking the Illinois job.
Since the last two pages have concentrated on the NBA, I again would like to throw out the name of Ettore Messina. The most successful Euro League coach in history and current San Antonio assistant. He probably has no interest in the college game and naturally nobody can know what kind of recruiter he would be but after watching his youtube videos it is evident that the man knows the game. I really enjoyed watching his interviews. Pair him up with a couple recruiters and I think we would have something.
It's not just that he knows nothing about recruiting, it's that the administration aspects of a college basketball program are literally foreign to him.
An NBA team should give him a shot though. David Blatt's flameout did not help.
Texas is a football state first. Still is. Yet recently has out-talented Illinois despite not emphasizing basketball. Historically you're right. Currently you're not. I'm speaking to current trends.
Carry on.
Illinois is in a basketball talent decline as it loses population, with the African-American population declining most rapidly.
But it is a slow decline from a very, very high perch. Texas has more than double Illinois' population. It produces more talent, yes, but not more talent per capita.
There are also five major conference mouths to feed in Texas, in addition to semi-majors like SMU and Houston, and obviously the regional and national schools that recruit there.
There are three major conference schools in Illinois, and the other two over the past decade or so may be the bottom two in the nation in terms of recruiting.
NBA one-and-done guys are a dogfight no matter where you are. But in terms of preferred access to a deep pool of quality high-major talent, there aren't a lot of non-blue blood jobs where you're better off than Illinois. Especially if JCL has now lifted our weird Indiana voodoo curse.
Take a closer look at the results in Lou Henson's 5th year: 1979-80 Illinois Basketball
It was clear that Illinois was on an upward trajectory and, in fact, Henson took the team to the NCAA in 9 of the next 10 years. The 1979-80 team would have had a good shot to make a 64 team tournament. Here are some highlights of the 1979-80 team:
- Top 25 wins: BYU, Louisville, Indiana
- Best win: 77-64 vs. #12 Louisville
- 9 out of 13 losses were by < 5 points, including a 1 pt OT loss to Mizzou, 2 pt loss to Marquette, 1 pt loss to #10 Iowa, 3 pt loss to #4 Ohio St, and a 3 pt loss to #15 Purdue.
- Worst loss: 57-71 @ #9 Ohio State
- Finished 3rd in the NIT, which was a much better tournament back then with only 32 teams in the NCAA (Minnesota won it behind Kevin McHale and Randy Breuer)
In terms of recruiting Lou Henson had already opened up the public league by landing Levi Cobb and Eddie Johnson. Today Eddie Johnson would be a sure-thing McDonald's All-American and maybe a Top 10 player in the country. He also had Derek Harper coming in for the 1980-81 team - Harper was another high school all-american.
In short, the 1979-80 team was a pretty darn good team. They beat some really good teams and had several close losses. They were never blown out of the gym and embarrassed. The talent was good and more was on the way. Everybody knew 1980-81 would be better. Everybody.
What does John Groce have in year 5? A pile of embarrassing loses, no Top 25 wins, and one star recruit on the way.
Neale Stoner would have been a fool to fire Henson in 1980 - it was crystal clear that Henson had rebuilt the program.
The idea that Illinois was patient with Lou Henson back in the old days, but we're no longer patient is absolutely ridiculous. Illinois has been incredibly patient with John Groce - he's been here FIVE YEARS.
Not disputing any of this. There was an original post somewhere about our recruiting base being strong vs diminishing. Someone responded that Illinois puts out more talent than x. (can't remember what x was, too lazy to look it up) I countered Texas vs Illinois, even though it pains me. Other poster responded with Illinois vs Texas HS players in the NBA. But since we're talking about current high school talent, Since 2000, TX leads IL 43-23 MCDAAs. I also said the DFW metro-plex and Houston Area probably out produce all of illinois. Those areas combined have around 13M, which is similar to Illinois. My argument overall was to point out that our recruiting grounds are not necessarily as hyped up as some think. Still good enough for UI to be competitive if we grab the right guys, but not as good as it once was. It was example-counterexample. Moreso to fit into the coaching carousel of question of a coach's recruiting capabilities in our state vs somewhere else, which there was a point made somewhere with Buzz Williams in VA vs IL.
Is Sean Miller a possibility? his boss is leaving so he might want out of AZ.
Highly doubt it. A portion of the fan base saw the tweet by Wischnowsky and started to entertain the idea of Miller. Let's not get our hopes up.
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The Pontiff
- Chicago, IL
I wouldn't sleep on this year's Butler team just yet. They are 5-1 against ranked foes this year, with a win over then-#1 Villanova. Now they've also laid eggs against Indiana St. and the Johnnies, so they are warts, but as we all know, the NCAA tournament is about matchups or being hot at the right time, as 10-seeded Syracuse showed last season.
Sorry to cherry-pick your post, most of which I agree with, however I think the biggest reason the last bball search was unappealing could be stated in two words - Mike Thomas.
Zeljko Obradovic is much better, but there is no way any of those high-end European coaches would ever entertain the idea of coaching in college and live at a place like Champaign-Urbana.
Illini4Reel
- Champaign, IL.
Sean Miller makes around $4.95 million a year at Arizona. The only possible way we could get him is if he wants to come back to the midwest and isn't happy with his new boss. That would be an absolute dream. He is a great coach.
If 2003 Bruce Weber was out there somewhere, I would take him in a heartbeat. That was a sterling resume for the Illinois job. He didn't work out. It happens.
And in the Groce process, we eschewed lots of coaches with much better resumes for reasons I'll never know. My personal top 3 going into it were Chris Collins, Shaka Smart, and Tim Miles. We showed no interest in two of the three, each of which took lesser jobs. And hired a guy who went 34-30 in the MAC. You could have seen this coming, and it had nothing to do with the attractiveness of the Illinois job.
Sean Miller head coach. Archie Miller Associate head coach. done deal.
Yes, let's make that mistake again, taking a program with huge upward momentum and making it tailspin into total irrelevancy. Worst choice of coach and terrible fit for the Illini job.
He had a sterling resume compared to Groce not for Illinois. His 3 predecessors set the bar much higher than Weber, but unfortunately Guenther felt betrayed by Self so we played it "safe."
I think there is a lot to unpack here.
1) Weber's resume was not sterling for the UI position in 2003. Guenther made a safe hire because he wanted someone who wouldn't leave after Kruger and Self bolted. Weber was in over his head from Day 1. Being a successful coach at SIU does not make a guy a slam dunk hire.
2) Groce was a hire of a guy that Thomas could get. It isn't that bigger names weren't considered. Those guys didn't want the job. Thomas had to find someone who would say yes and honestly the process was getting a little embarrassing by the time he was hired. Another mid-major coach without the experience of running a large program who had very limited recruiting connections to Chicago or Illinois at all. He was part of the Thomas Ohio influx that has failed. Collins wasn't really an option- Illinois has traditionally hired coaches with head coaching experience (though it can be argued a Duke assistant is more prepared for the rigors of a Big 10 head coach job than a mid-major head coach). Illinois ADs have been reluctant to make a Big 10 job as training ground for coaches. Smart could have had the job and didn't want it. IDK about Tim Miles. That might have proven to be a good hire. Everyone is very high on him and he's done ok with a basketball questionable school at Nebraska. But he has and had no Illinois ties, no experience or relevance in Chicago, etc. I think Miles would have struggled at Illinois.
73-7 :hand:
The folk wisdom here is a fun fairy tale, but it is just that.
Also, the "big time" coach Guenther had in mind, as we all know, was Kelvin Sampson who torpedoed Indiana much faster and much worse than Weber torpedoed us.
He hasn't been as good at Nebraska as I thought he'd be. That is 100% beside the point. His resume towered over Groce's in 2012, as did Collins', as did probably a dozen other easily gettable coaches for Illinois.
Last five years that cost Weber his job compared to Groce five years (Sorry could not get the columns to line up but Percentages are very close.)
Year Overall Big 10 Home NCAA NIT
2007-8 16 19 5 13 7 8 3-1
2008-9 24 10 11 7 14 3 0-1
2009-10 21 15 10 8 13 5 2-1
2010-11 20 14 9 9 14 2 1-1
2011-12 17 15 6 12 13 4
Total 98 73 41 49 61 22 1-2 5-2
Percent 57.31% 45.56% 73.49%
2012-13 23 13 8 10 12 4 1-1
2013-14 20 15 7 11 10 6 1-1
2014-15 19 14 9 9 14 2 0-1
2015-16 15 19 5 13 6 7
2016-17 12 6 2 3 9 2
Total 89 67 31 46 51 21 1-1 1-2
Percent 57.05% 40.26% 70.83%
Year Overall Big 10 Home NCAA NIT
2007-8 16 19 5 13 7 8 3-1
2008-9 24 10 11 7 14 3 0-1
2009-10 21 15 10 8 13 5 2-1
2010-11 20 14 9 9 14 2 1-1
2011-12 17 15 6 12 13 4
Total 98 73 41 49 61 22 1-2 5-2
Percent 57.31% 45.56% 73.49%
2012-13 23 13 8 10 12 4 1-1
2013-14 20 15 7 11 10 6 1-1
2014-15 19 14 9 9 14 2 0-1
2015-16 15 19 5 13 6 7
2016-17 12 6 2 3 9 2
Total 89 67 31 46 51 21 1-1 1-2
Percent 57.05% 40.26% 70.83%
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