2017 Coaching Carousel

[illinoisfan11]

I think we all have an idea of who's on our "A list." Guys like Archie Miller, Greg Marshall, Fred Hoiberg, Tony Bennett, etc. I think most of us can also probably agree they're all longshots.


Assuming we miss out on all of those guys, I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion would be on Mark Gottfried. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be all that excited about a guy who just got canned from a major program, but I think he got a raw deal. He had that program in a MUCH better place than UI has been for the last 5+ years. He's shown an ability to recruit, and to do it in Duke and UNC's backyard.


I think we could definitely end up with worse hires than him. Thoughts?

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

I think we all have an idea of who's on our "A list." Guys like Archie Miller, Greg Marshall, Fred Hoiberg, Tony Bennett, etc. I think most of us can also probably agree they're all longshots.


Assuming we miss out on all of those guys, I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion would be on Mark Gottfried. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be all that excited about a guy who just got canned from a major program, but I think he got a raw deal. He had that program in a MUCH better place than UI has been for the last 5+ years. He's shown an ability to recruit, and to do it in Duke and UNC's backyard.


I think we could definitely end up with worse hires than him. Thoughts?

I'm not particularly interested, although to an extent I agree with you. My disinterest lies simply in that the program seemed to be trending the wrong way, which is largely why he was let go. Looking simply at the tournament appearances, etc is ignoring the trend line of his tenure, imo.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

Agree - we have to have a good hire in line to make a move - otherwise - it doesn't make sense just to rinse and repeat for another 5 years.

Define "good hire." To me, that means "better than what we have" - I think pretty much everyone that would be a realistic hire qualifies.

 

[illinoisfan11]

I'm not particularly interested, although to an extent I agree with you. My disinterest lies simply in that the program seemed to be trending the wrong way, which is largely why he was let go. Looking simply at the tournament appearances, etc is ignoring the trend line of his tenure, imo.

I agree that NC State was definitely headed in the wrong direction. I'd certainly consider him an upgrade over Groce though. Let's hope we land a better option though!

 

[Psycho 86]

The weather in C/U is so nice, that people are coming up from Florida.

Interesting .......lol

 

[I Bomb]

The deja vu is strong here... Hopefully, this hire is a big deal and we don't have to find out where the line is drawn for an "upgrade".

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

Define "good hire." To me, that means "better than what we have" - I think pretty much everyone that would be a realistic hire qualifies.

I agree with this. Honestly, almost every candidate discussed at length in this thread has a better resume than Groce had at the time of hiring, and we now have 5 years of data to support Groce is bad, so take one of the better resumes. Just feels like a no-brainer to move on.

 

[GortTheRobot]

I think it's just a case of once but, twice shy with some people. When we fired Weber many were saying we couldn't do worse than him and yet here we are.

During the last hiring process we heard a lot of the same talk "we're Illinois, we should be able to land anyone we want as coach", then Shaka and Stevens turned us down and we ended up with Groce.

Not saying the same thing will happen again, but there are people who are probably disallusioned enough to think it could happen again and that we end up with some one worse than Groce.

I agree, we did worse. However, I think our former AD had everything to do with that. Not only couldn't lure anyone here, and/or couldn't evaluate coaches. I think the opposite is true on both counts with JW. And yes, I know he's a football guy, but I think he's way more than just that.

 

[PlayAZ]

I think we all have an idea of who's on our "A list." Guys like Archie Miller, Greg Marshall, Fred Hoiberg, Tony Bennett, etc. I think most of us can also probably agree they're all longshots.


Assuming we miss out on all of those guys, I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion would be on Mark Gottfried. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be all that excited about a guy who just got canned from a major program, but I think he got a raw deal. He had that program in a MUCH better place than UI has been for the last 5+ years. He's shown an ability to recruit, and to do it in Duke and UNC's backyard.


I think we could definitely end up with worse hires than him. Thoughts?

I don't think he is any better or any worse as far as a fit right now for the ILLINI...fact is NC State is just as irrelevant in that area/conference as we are currently here.

We need to get a "splash" hire, make some noise, upgrade in all areas (pretty much a given-as no one area Groce stands out in), and move this program BACK to a Top program again.

 

[MoIlliniMoProblems]

I mostly lurk on here and enjoy some of the conversation so I apologize if this has already been brought up. It seems to me that Whitman really runs a tight ship and there's a possibility the next hire could be a surprise, a la Lovie. One name I came up with just looking at othe D1 jobs is Larry Krystkowiak. Midwest ties with his extensive time with Bucks as a player and coach. I don't know how realistic he is, but he's done a great job rebuilding that program at Utah. He's a helluva coach.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

I think we all have an idea of who's on our "A list." Guys like Archie Miller, Greg Marshall, Fred Hoiberg, Tony Bennett, etc. I think most of us can also probably agree they're all longshots.


Assuming we miss out on all of those guys, I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion would be on Mark Gottfried. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be all that excited about a guy who just got canned from a major program, but I think he got a raw deal. He had that program in a MUCH better place than UI has been for the last 5+ years. He's shown an ability to recruit, and to do it in Duke and UNC's backyard.


I think we could definitely end up with worse hires than him. Thoughts?

Or we could wait a bit and get Bruce Weber, another guy who's been fired from 2 high majors.

:huh:

 

[I Bomb]

Interesting read, in the absence of any hot sauce rumors:

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=17757

Lots of names I had totally forgotten about, Theus, Cartwright, WWW lol

 

[cam]

Just for argument sake, in my opinion even if Groce stays we are on the way back. Lucas and Frazier are big time guards that can score and create for others. The new coach, if he's hired will have some really good guards, we have had for the last 4 years probably the 14th best point guard position in the league. Groce would win with those players and if he's fired he has left the next coach with some good young talent unless Frazier decommits and we also don't get Mark Smith. I think Cuonzo sounds pretty good if Groce is let go because I think he could recruit and I don't want to see him at Mizzou. The roster next year of Lucas, Frazier, JCL, Kipper, Black, Finke and Tillmon is an athletic group

 

[MoIlliniMoProblems]

I think Cuonzo sounds pretty good if Groce is let go because I think he could recruit and I don't want to see him at Mizzou. The roster next year of Lucas, Frazier, JCL, Kipper, Black, Finke and Tillmon is an athletic group

Hiring someone just because you don't want to see him at a school you play against once a year is bad policy.

 

[illinoisfan11]

Or we could wait a bit and get Bruce Weber, another guy who's been fired from 2 high majors.

:huh:

Sadly, at this point, I think I'd rather have Bruce back...


That said, I'm sure Whitman will land a great coach.

 

[Obelix]

Define "good hire." To me, that means "better than what we have" - I think pretty much everyone that would be a realistic hire qualifies.

I do not agree with that. The next hire is very critical to the Illini program. Just doing marginally better, is pretty much accepting mediocrity.

Just because a new hire could do better than Groce, it would not make it a good hire. A good hire would be someone who could elevate the program with respect to where the program should be, not where the bar is right now. Someone had posted Kenpom numbers on starting and end points, and you could argue Weber had a much more detrimental effect on the program (considering the drop from starting point). And you could even argue that Groce's ending point this season is not far from his starting point (last year under Weber). Considering the recruiting class (which is not exceptional, but still good), it is a better state than inheriting an empty 2012 class, an empty 2010 class, etc.

You also have to consider duration until next hire. The next hiring cycle will likely not be until 5 years after this hire. Accepting mediocrity on the basis of marginal improvement will plummet the program further into irrelevancy even if that mediocrity may be slightly better.

The expectation and bar should be "a lot better" and towards where the program should be, not where it is right now. The next hire is extremely critical.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

I mostly lurk on here and enjoy some of the conversation so I apologize if this has already been brought up. It seems to me that Whitman really runs a tight ship and there's a possibility the next hire could be a surprise, a la Lovie. One name I came up with just looking at othe D1 jobs is Larry Krystkowiak. Midwest ties with his extensive time with Bucks as a player and coach. I don't know how realistic he is, but he's done a great job rebuilding that program at Utah. He's a helluva coach.

Krystowiak has been mentioned, but didn't seem to generate a bunch of traction. The more I consider him though, the more OK i'd be with that as the hire.

Interesting read, in the absence of any hot sauce rumors:

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=17757

Lots of names I had totally forgotten about, Theus, Cartwright, WWW lol

575 pages in 20 days! We need to step our game up.

Just for argument sake, in my opinion even if Groce stays we are on the way back. Lucas and Frazier are big time guards that can score and create for others. The new coach, if he's hired will have some really good guards, we have had for the last 4 years probably the 14th best point guard position in the league. Groce would win with those players and if he's fired he has left the next coach with some good young talent unless Frazier decommits and we also don't get Mark Smith. I think Cuonzo sounds pretty good if Groce is let go because I think he could recruit and I don't want to see him at Mizzou. The roster next year of Lucas, Frazier, JCL, Kipper, Black, Finke and Tillmon is an athletic group

Man, Frazier is on the most insane of pedestals already for a guy outside of the top 100

We hire Cuonzo if we feel he is the best candidate, not just to keep him away from Miznoz. There's going to be plenty of qualified candidates for Mizzou, as there will be for Illinois. We can't hire them all just so Mizzou can't have them.

 

[LurkLongandProsper]

I do not agree with that. The next hire is very critical to the Illini program. Just doing marginally better, is pretty much accepting mediocrity.

Just because a new hire could do better than Groce, it would not make it a good hire. A good hire would be someone who could elevate the program with respect to where the program should be, not where the bar is right now. Someone had posted Kenpom numbers on starting and end points, and you could argue Weber had a much more detrimental effect on the program (considering the drop from starting point). And you could even argue that Groce's ending point this season is not far from his starting point (last year under Weber). Considering the recruiting class (which is not exceptional, but still good), it is a better state than inheriting an empty 2012 class, an empty 2010 class, etc.

You also have to consider duration until next hire. The next hiring cycle will likely not be until 5 years after this hire. Accepting mediocrity on the basis of marginal improvement will plummet the program further into irrelevancy even if that mediocrity may be slightly better.

The expectation and bar should be "a lot better" and towards where the program should be, not where it is right now. The next hire is extremely critical.

Making no change, assuming Groce misses the tournament, is worse in terms of 'accepting mediocrity' (he hasn't even been mediocre here, Weber was mediocre) than making a change, regardless of who the change is for.

 

[Obelix]

Making no change, assuming Groce misses the tournament, is worse in terms of 'accepting mediocrity' (he hasn't even been mediocre here, Weber was mediocre) than making a change, regardless of who the change is for.

Read my post. The argument was what constitutes a "good hire."

As far as Weber, he had a far more detrimental effect on the program than Groce considering what he inherited. The reason we ended up in 2012, which is a terrible point, is because of Weber.

 

[Ransom Stoddard]

Read my post. The argument was what constitutes a "good hire."

As far as Weber, he had a far more detrimental effect on the program than Groce considering what he inherited. The reason we ended up in 2003, which is a terrible point, is because of Weber.

2003?

 

[Obelix]

2003?

2012

 

[IntenselyOrange]

A good hire would be someone who could elevate the program with respect to where the program should be, not where the bar is right now.

That is the obvious goal. Unfortunately, we can't just run a simulation of our options to determine which choice will lead to that outcome.

The "anything has to be better" argument began as a counter-argument to those that are scared that things could get worse.

 

[IntenselyOrange]

Man, Frazier is on the most insane of pedestals already for a guy outside of the top 100

No kidding. Collectively, this board never learns. We always expect the world of freshmen and are always disappointed. I hope Frazier is the guy that provides a major impact from day 1, but I'll let myself be pleasantly surprised. If I'm looking for success next season, I'm hoping for big-time development from Lucas, JCL and Black among others. Anything we get from freshmen is a bonus.

 

[Obelix]

The "anything has to be better" argument began as a counter-argument to those that are scared that things could get worse.

And as far as what constitutes a "good hire" it is a a bad, actually the wrong argument. Making a change is a totally different argument, but let's not confuse that with what would constitute a "good hire." The next coaching hire is extremely critical.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

And as far as what constitutes a "good hire" it is a a bad, actually the wrong argument. Making a change is a totally different argument, but let's not confuse that with what would constitute a "good hire." The next coaching hire is extremely critical.

Well, but that's the thing - those are being conflated by people saying that you don't make a change unless you have a "homerun" hire.